Why certain readings are not read complete?

[wwolverine]

Dear Catholic brothers and sisters,

Could someone explain why some of the readings in the Church are not complete? eg on 1st June the below mentioned readings were read, and some parts of it are missing. Why is it not read completely eg. 2 Peter 3: 12 -17 or the Psalms 90: 1 - 16?
This was the readings on 1st June. And like this I come on many days when I read the daily readings. Will appreciate an answer.

2 Peter 3.12-15a,17-18
Psalms 90.1-4,10,14,16

 

[MM_for_LLPH]

I read them both and I have to say - very shocking that they take out these important verses. Isn’t the catholic church supposed to expose all of its followers to the entire word of GOD over a few year rotation? How is this possible if they are skipping and leaving out verses. The verses left out were not just fluff and filler - nothing in the Bible is! These verses specifically call out the Damned Generation and it called Moses mind to THANKING GOD for their sufferings. Here is all of Psalms from the KJV.

A Prayer of Moses the man of God.
{90:1} LORD, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations.
{90:2} Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst
formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to
everlasting, thou [art] God.
{90:3} Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children
of men.
{90:4} For a thousand years in thy sight [are but] as yesterday when it
is past, and [as] a watch in the night.
{90:5} Thou carriest them away as with a flood; they are [as] a sleep:
in the morning [they are] like grass [which] groweth up.
{90:6} In the morning it flourisheth, and groweth up; in the evening it
is cut down, and withereth.
{90:7} For we are consumed by thine anger, and by thy wrath are we
troubled.
{90:8} Thou hast set our iniquities before thee, our secret [sins] in
the light of thy countenance.
{90:9} For all our days are passed away in thy wrath: we spend our
years as a tale [that is told.
]{90:10} The days of our years [are] threescore years and ten; and if
by reason of strength [they be] fourscore years, yet [is] their
strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly
away.
{90:11} Who knoweth the power of thine anger? even according to thy
fear, [so is] thy wrath.
{90:12} So teach [us] to number our days, that we may apply [our]
hearts unto wisdom.
{90:13} Return, O LORD, how long? and let it repent thee concerning thy
servants.
{90:14} O satisfy us early with thy mercy; that we may rejoice and be
glad all our days.
{90:15} Make us glad according to the days [wherein] thou hast
afflicted us, [and] the years [wherein] we have seen evil.

Frankly - I wanted to reply as soon as I saw this yesterday knowing full well what I would write - yet I wanted to see someone else from this site post an answer - a full day and nothing. This is vastly important if we are to trust blindly without question that the catholic organization is “not leading us all off a cliff”

Why 2 omissions in one mass? Are there omissions in every mass? Aren’t we all supposed to live not by bread alone - but by every word of GOD? How is this possible if the mass just skips over the scary parts. Our Lord is very wrathful to sinners that willfully deny his word. I think from now on - unless someone from the “Catholic” church can provide clear understanding as to why some things are read and some not - each reading should be found in the Bible first and then compared to what they are teaching in Mass - is it the same. I think we can all agree - skipping these parts in this specific Mass seem out of place.

I think there are some serious implications here. If the Catholic church has elevated tradition equal to scripture and certainly above in most cases - they had better start including the whole scripture - unless scripture clearly conflicts with tradition. Actually that poses another problem. See, for a few months I have taken upon myself to read the Bible cover to cover. Rather I have asked the Holy Ghost to show me IN THE BIBLE - the word of God - Jesus - our savior. And I have to say - I have to put more faith in the Catholic church make it work then I would have to put in Jesus!!!**

 

[PJM]

=wwolverine;6720623]Dear Catholic brothers and sisters,

Could someone explain why some of the readings in the Church are not complete? eg on 1st June the below mentioned readings were read, and some parts of it are missing. Why is it not read completely eg. 2 Peter 3: 12 -17 or the Psalms 90: 1 - 16?
This was the readings on 1st June. And like this I come on many days when I read the daily readings. Will appreciate an answer.

2 Peter 3.12-15a,17-18
Psalms 90.1-4,10,14,16

GREAT QUESTION:thumbsup:

The answer lies is a teaching theme. Sometimes in order to better make a point, the readings are edited [culled] to make more vividly the point of the reading.

Thanks for asking,

 

[EphelDuath]

I read them both and I have to say - very shocking that they take out these important verses. Isn’t the catholic church supposed to expose all of its followers to the entire word of GOD over a few year rotation? How is this possible if they are skipping and leaving out verses. The verses left out were not just fluff and filler - nothing in the Bible is! These verses specifically call out the Damned Generation and it called Moses mind to THANKING GOD for their sufferings. Here is all of Psalms from the KJV.

The Church encourages people to read the Bible outside of Mass as well. For Mass though, for the interest of keeping it confined to a single theme for the week, verses are edited; sometimes during the homily, the celebrant may speak about the excluded verses if they are relevant to his point.

Frankly - I wanted to reply as soon as I saw this yesterday knowing full well what I would write - yet I wanted to see someone else from this site post an answer - a full day and nothing. This is vastly important if we are to trust blindly without question that the catholic organization is “not leading us all off a cliff”

The Catholic Church is the pillar of truth (1 Timothy 3:15, Matthew 16:18-19). I’m sorry you think God would allow this to happen to his people – but I suppose you must if you’re a “Bible only” Christian, since there are millions of Christians with conflicting beliefs, all claiming to follow “scripture alone.” Protestants can’t even agree if Jesus is God, let alone on practically every other issue within Christianity. Certainly the Holy Spirit didn’t sow this error and division; so can we agree that Christ must have given us an infallible Church in order to show us the truth?

Our Lord is very wrathful to sinners that willfully deny his word.

By extension, if the entire Bible isn’t read at every Mass, are we denying His word? Obviously not. You mistakenly think that Christianity is entirely confined to just the Bible. It’s not. The heart of the Mass is the Holy Eucharist.

I think there are some serious implications here. If the Catholic church has elevated tradition equal to scripture and certainly above in most cases - they had better start including the whole scripture - unless scripture clearly conflicts with tradition.

Which it doesn’t. Apostolic tradition and scripture are mutually supporting, otherwise St. Paul would not have commanded us to follow tradition (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

Actually that poses another problem. See, for a few months I have taken upon myself to read the Bible cover to cover. Rather I have asked the Holy Ghost to show me IN THE BIBLE - the word of God - Jesus - our savior. And I have to say - I have to put more faith in the Catholic church make it work then I would have to put in Jesus!!!

This is absurd. The Bible itself says to follow the Church – nowhere does it say to follow the Bible alone.

God bless.

 

[diggerdomer]

I read them both and I have to say - very shocking that they take out these important verses. Isn’t the catholic church supposed to expose all of its followers to the entire word of GOD over a few year rotation? How is this possible if they are skipping and leaving out verses. The verses left out were not just fluff and filler - nothing in the Bible is! These verses specifically call out the Damned Generation and it called Moses mind to THANKING GOD for their sufferings. Here is all of Psalms from the KJV.

A Prayer of Moses the man of God.
{90:1} LORD, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations.
{90:2} Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst
formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to
everlasting, thou [art] God.
{90:3} Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children
of men.
{90:4} For a thousand years in thy sight [are but] as yesterday when it
is past, and [as] a watch in the night.
{90:5} Thou carriest them away as with a flood; they are [as] a sleep:
in the morning [they are] like grass [which] groweth up.
{90:6} In the morning it flourisheth, and groweth up; in the evening it
is cut down, and withereth.
{90:7} For we are consumed by thine anger, and by thy wrath are we
troubled.
{90:8} Thou hast set our iniquities before thee, our secret [sins] in
the light of thy countenance.
{90:9} For all our days are passed away in thy wrath: we spend our
years as a tale [that is told.
]{90:10} The days of our years [are] threescore years and ten; and if
by reason of strength [they be] fourscore years, yet [is] their
strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly
away.
{90:11} Who knoweth the power of thine anger? even according to thy
fear, [so is] thy wrath.**
{90:12} So teach [us] to number our days, that we may apply [our]
hearts unto wisdom.
{90:13} Return, O LORD, how long? and let it repent thee concerning thy
servants.
{90:14} O satisfy us early with thy mercy; that we may rejoice and be
glad all our days.
{90:15} Make us glad according to the days [wherein] thou hast
afflicted us, [and] the years [wherein] we have seen evil.

Frankly - I wanted to reply as soon as I saw this yesterday knowing full well what I would write - yet I wanted to see someone else from this site post an answer - a full day and nothing. This is vastly important if we are to trust blindly without question that the catholic organization is “not leading us all off a cliff”

Why 2 omissions in one mass? Are there omissions in every mass? Aren’t we all supposed to live not by bread alone - but by every word of GOD? How is this possible if the mass just skips over the scary parts. Our Lord is very wrathful to sinners that willfully deny his word. I think from now on - unless someone from the “Catholic” church can provide clear understanding as to why some things are read and some not - each reading should be found in the Bible first and then compared to what they are teaching in Mass - is it the same. I think we can all agree - skipping these parts in this specific Mass seem out of place.

I think there are some serious implications here. If the Catholic church has elevated tradition equal to scripture and certainly above in most cases - they had better start including the whole scripture - unless scripture clearly conflicts with tradition. Actually that poses another problem. See, for a few months I have taken upon myself to read the Bible cover to cover. Rather I have asked the Holy Ghost to show me IN THE BIBLE - the word of God - Jesus - our savior. And I have to say - I have to put more faith in the Catholic church make it work then I would have to put in Jesus!!!

No, the Catholic Church never claims to present the entire Bible in the readings at Mass.

 

[MM_for_LLPH]

The Church encourages people to read the Bible outside of Mass as well. For Mass though, for the interest of keeping it confined to a single theme for the week, verses are edited; sometimes during the homily, the celebrant may speak about the excluded verses if they are relevant to his point.

For how many years has the Roman Catholic Church allowed the reading of the Word of God in the common language of the people? How long have the common people been able to even hear the mass in their own language? Not till recently.

The Catholic Church is the pillar of truth (1 Timothy 3:15, Matthew 16:18-19). I’m sorry you think God would allow this to happen to his people – but I suppose you must if you’re a “Bible only” Christian, since there are millions of Christians with conflicting beliefs, all claiming to follow “scripture alone.” Protestants can’t even agree if Jesus is God, let alone on practically every other issue within Christianity. Certainly the Holy Spirit didn’t sow this error and division; so can we agree that Christ must have given us an infallible Church in order to show us the truth?

The UNIVERSAL church is the pillar to truth - not Roman Catholic Church - a stolen name belonging to those who follow the high priest Jesus Christ using the bible as the perfect guide to everything in life - home school to salvation - a complete work wrapped up with the truth that Jesus died for our sins. I am not sure how you can state that Protestants can’t even agree - sure there are many false profiteers in the Protestant world - as in the Catholic world. The only way we are all accountable - is by the bible.

Is this what you believe? Will you follow the post VCII RCC to the pit of hell? Seriously read these statements from the current Pope - does this sound like what Jesus sounded like when he was here talking to false religions?

BENEDICT XVI SAYS THE “CATHOLIC CHURCH” HAS RESPECT FOR ISLAM

Benedict XVI, Address, January 19, 2007: “During my memorable visit, I frequently expressed the respect of the Catholic Church for Islam and the esteem of the Pope and the faithful for Muslim believers, especially during my visit to Istanbul’s Blue Mosque… Dialogue, essential between religious Authorities at all levels, begins in daily life through the mutual respect and esteem that believers of every religion have for one another…” (L’Osservatore Romano, Feb. 14, 2007, p. 10)

Pope Paul IV, Bull Cum ex Apostolatus Officio, Feb. 15, 1559: “6. In addition, [by this Our Constitution, which is to remain valid in perpetuity We enact, determine, decree and define:-] that if ever at any time it shall appear that any Bishop, even if he be acting as an Archbishop, Patriarch or Primate; or any Cardinal of the aforesaid Roman Church, or, as has already been mentioned, any legate, or even the Roman Pontiff, prior to his promotion or his elevation as Cardinal or Roman Pontiff, has deviated from the Catholic Faith or fallen into some heresy: …

1. No one at all, therefore, may infringe this document of our approbation, re-introduction, sanction, statute and derogation of wills and decrees, or by rash presumption contradict it. If anyone, however, should presume to attempt this, let him know that he is destined to incur the wrath of Almighty God and of the blessed Apostles, Peter and Paul.

Given in Rome at Saint Peter’s in the year of the Incarnation of the Lord 1559, 15th February, in the fourth year of our Pontificate.

Is this what YOU would allow to happen in your masses?
traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A369rcAcrobatSwiss.html
traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A330rcClownMassl.html
traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A307rcBasingstoke.html
traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A242rcDiscoMassVienna.htm
traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A207rcItalianMagicMass.htm

By extension, if the entire Bible isn’t read at every Mass, are we denying His word? Obviously not. You mistakenly think that Christianity is entirely confined to just the Bible. It’s not. The heart of the Mass is the Holy Eucharist.
Which it doesn’t. Apostolic tradition and scripture are mutually supporting, otherwise St. Paul would not have commanded us to follow tradition (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

So these are the same traditions that were ripped asunder? Or if someone comes preaching a tradition other than everything you find just in the NT - run away. Yea - keep the commandments of God - Including the original Sabbath and stay away from idols - add these commandments in with the teachings of the NT - done deal. Thus starts a new walk with Jesus - he knocks - will you answer?

This is absurd. The Bible itself says to follow the Church – nowhere does it say to follow the Bible alone.

If truth is the word of God - and the RCC does not read or require the entire word of God - if they skip or “edit” for what time? Why is mass one hour? Make mass all day Sat- it would not take long then to cover the bible in just a few short weeks.

 

[MM_for_LLPH]

cont…

If certain verses change the reading (an easy assumption if they are going to make a point - they would have to edit it) then I guess I am not sure how this whole thing works anymore. Romans tells us to grow in faith by hearing the word of God - not only has it not always been allowed - even today its not complete. Maybe instead of praying to the queen of heaven (a devil in the OT) and the pagan saints - turn to the truth of the Word of God.

Benedict XVI, Truth and Tolerance, 2004, p. 207: “The fact that in every age there have been, and still are, ‘pagan saints’ is because everywhere and in every age – albeit often with difficulty and in fragmentary fashion – the speech of the ‘heart’ can be heard, because God’s Torah may be heard within ourselves…”[103]

This is bold heresy. Remember, Pope Eugene IV infallibly defined that all who die as “pagans” are not saved.

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, ex cathedra:

“…all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life…”[104]

and finally -

Benedict XVI, Salt of the Earth, 1996, p. 29: “… in all religions there are men of interior purity who through their myths somehow touch the great mystery and find the right way of being human.”[107]

Sorry - if he is your Pope - he is not the vicar of Christ - this was not teaching of Jesus.

May Jesus Christ wash over you with the blood of redemption.

 

[EphelDuath]

For how many years has the Roman Catholic Church allowed the reading of the Word of God in the common language of the people? How long have the common people been able to even hear the mass in their own language? Not till recently.

All educated people could read Latin right up until recently. Your lack of historical context is disturbing.

The UNIVERSAL church is the pillar to truth - not Roman Catholic Church - a stolen name belonging to those who follow the high priest Jesus Christ using the bible as the perfect guide to everything in life - home school to salvation - a complete work wrapped up with the truth that Jesus died for our sins.

If there is indeed a “universal church,” it cannot be the pillar of the living truth, because two Protestants will never be in total agreement with everything. Protestants cannot even agree on whether Jesus is God, so how could this association be the “living truth?” Obviously the Holy Spirit cannot be the author of these confusions; so there must be a visible Church that stands for the truth, which we call the Catholic Church, that has existed since AD 33.

I am not sure how you can state that Protestants can’t even agree - sure there are many false profiteers in the Protestant world - as in the Catholic world. The only way we are all accountable - is by the bible.

No. That is false. Two people can read the same Bible and come to radically different conclusions. How can you say which is right? Only if there is an infallible interpreter, which Jesus gave us in Matthew 16:18-19 (cf. Isaiah 22:22).

Is this what you believe? Will you follow the post VCII RCC to the pit of hell? Seriously read these statements from the current Pope - does this sound like what Jesus sounded like when he was here talking to false religions?

I’ll suppose for the sake of discussion that respecting other religions somehow implies they have some truth. What is your point? That individual Catholics can sin? Guilty as charged; St. Peter denied the Lord three times.

Is this what YOU would allow to happen in your masses?
traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A369rcAcrobatSwiss.html
traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A330rcClownMassl.html
traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A307rcBasingstoke.html
traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A242rcDiscoMassVienna.htm
traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A207rcItalianMagicMass.htm

No. I don’t allow them. These happenings are entirely against the rubrics and laws of the Church and the people responsible for them are in grave error. Do you now see the fruits of when people do not obey the Church?

So these are the same traditions that were ripped asunder?

Nope. Preserved since the days of Christ Himself.

Or if someone comes preaching a tradition other than everything you find just in the NT - run away.

That’s funny. I don’t remember reading that in the Bible. But I do remember, “But there are also many other things which Jesus did which, if they were written every one, the world itself, I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written.” (John 21:25) I also do remember, 2 Thessalonians 2:15: "“So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.” And, 1 Timothy 3:15: “If I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the Church not the Bible!] of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.”

Yea - keep the commandments of God - Including the original Sabbath and stay away from idols - add these commandments in with the teachings of the NT - done deal. Thus starts a new walk with Jesus - he knocks - will you answer?

The Catholic Church expressly forbids idolatry, and it can be derived both from the Bible and the practice of the early Church fathers that the principle day of worship for Christians is the Sunday; see Acts 20:7.

If truth is the word of God - and the RCC does not read or require the entire word of God - if they skip or “edit” for what time? Why is mass one hour? Make mass all day Sat- it would not take long then to cover the bible in just a few short weeks.

Because there’s more to worship than reading the Bible. Christ said, “'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.” (John 6:53-58, 66-67). THAT is the heart of the Mass.

If certain verses change the reading (an easy assumption if they are going to make a point - they would have to edit it) then I guess I am not sure how this whole thing works anymore. Romans tells us to grow in faith by hearing the word of God

Certainly. And since the Bible is read at Church, what’s the problem?

• not only has it not always been allowed

Huh? Are Catholics punished if they attempt to read the Bible? Since when? It’s never happened to me!

 

[EphelDuath]

• even today its not complete. Maybe instead of praying to the queen of heaven (a devil in the OT) and the pagan saints - turn to the truth of the Word of God.

I’m sorry you think the Mother of God, who carried Jesus in her womb, is a devil. Maybe you should try paying more attention to the Word of God: Luke 1:43. Also, Catholics don’t pray to any pagan saints. All the saints were devout Christians themselves and intercede for us, as can be seen by Revelation 5:8; and the Psalmist implores us to pray to an angel, as per Psalm 103:20–21

Benedict XVI, Truth and Tolerance, 2004, p. 207: “The fact that in every age there have been, and still are, ‘pagan saints’ is because everywhere and in every age – albeit often with difficulty and in fragmentary fashion – the speech of the ‘heart’ can be heard, because God’s Torah may be heard within ourselves…”[103]

Benedict XVI, Salt of the Earth, 1996, p. 29: “… in all religions there are men of interior purity who through their myths somehow touch the great mystery and find the right way of being human.”[107]

Perhaps you should attempt to not read his works entirely out of context, and attempt to be a little more honest when you read the works of others, if you truly care about the Church of God.

God bless.

 

[diggerdomer]

For how many years has the Roman Catholic Church allowed the reading of the Word of God in the common language of the people? How long have the common people been able to even hear the mass in their own language? Not till recently.

The UNIVERSAL church is the pillar to truth - not Roman Catholic Church - a stolen name belonging to those who follow the high priest Jesus Christ using the bible as the perfect guide to everything in life - home school to salvation - a complete work wrapped up with the truth that Jesus died for our sins. I am not sure how you can state that Protestants can’t even agree - sure there are many false profiteers in the Protestant world - as in the Catholic world. The only way we are all accountable - is by the bible. .

Catholics don’t believe the Bible is the perfect guide to life. Actually, I don’t personally know any Christians who do. God is the perfect guide to life.

You’re right that the Roman Catholic Church is not the universal Church. But the Catholic Church is. That’s what “catholic” means…“universal”.

People were accountable before the Bible existed. We are accountable to God.

 

[Zooey]

For how many years has the Roman Catholic Church allowed the reading of the Word of God in the common language of the people?

Always.

Why is mass one hour? Make mass all day Sat.

Are you planning on attending this 24 hour-long mass?

Good grief!!!

And why, by the bye, do you want this marathon held on Saturday instead of on Sunday, which is the proper Christian Sabbath???

 

[MM_for_LLPH]

All educated people could read Latin right up until recently. Your lack of historical context is disturbing.

If you consider every single person in the MIDDLE AGES educated in Latin - sure - but there were far more NON Latin (education, as we know it, belonged to very few). The bible was not allowed in any other language but Latin till 1582. Why lift the ban if everyone can read it? When you say educated - do you mean the members of the RCC that were allowed to read and teach to the UNeducated masses? The whole world would know Latin - we don’t because God confounded our language. If he wanted everyone to know Latin - I am sure we all would.

If there is indeed a “universal church,” it cannot be the pillar of the living truth, because two Protestants will never be in total agreement with everything. Protestants cannot even agree on whether Jesus is God, so how could this association be the “living truth?” Obviously the Holy Spirit cannot be the author of these confusions; so there must be a visible Church that stands for the truth, which we call the Catholic Church, that has existed since AD 33.

The assumption that modern false profit Protestants represent the entire Biblical Christian community would be the same as RCC claiming the fringe Catholics - you don’t seem to want to claim them. I don’t claim false profits to be of my own either.

No. That is false. Two people can read the same Bible and come to radically different conclusions. How can you say which is right? Only if there is an infallible interpreter, which Jesus gave us in Matthew 16:18-19 (cf. Isaiah 22:22).

The scripture is ALWAYS right - man should not interpret it - he should OBEY it. You are dangerously close to saying that the scripture - the inspired word of God - is not understandable or followable. It is much easier to understand then most would like to admit - IT REQUIRES change - and if you follow it - it PRODUCES change. JH {3:16} All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for
correction, for instruction in righteousness:

I’ll suppose for the sake of discussion that respecting other religions somehow implies they have some truth. What is your point? That individual Catholics can sin? Guilty as charged; St. Peter denied the Lord three times.

As none are born righteous - no not one - something has to change us. The Bible is the truth and it that truth you find that there is NOT truth in other religions. I love my fellow man as I am told - but a warning is due to all that believe that Jesus will not have wrath on false religions. I feel all people want to focus on is the love of God - plentiful and overabundant - but is wrath is equal staggering.

No. I don’t allow them. These happenings are entirely against the rubrics and laws of the Church and the people responsible for them are in grave error. Do you now see the fruits of when people do not obey the Church?

Those are the fruits of VCII and your very own RCC. Your Popes, Cardinals, and Arch Bishops are included - are they in error too? If you ask me…this sounds like a divided church.

That’s funny. I don’t remember reading that in the Bible

The scripture is called many things in the BIBLE - like:
Word of God
Word of Truth
Sword of the Spirit
Authoritative

But I do remember, “But there are also many other things which Jesus did which, if they were written every one, the world itself, I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written.” (John 21:25) I also do remember, 2 Thessalonians 2:15: "“So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.” And, 1 Timothy 3:15: “If I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the Church not the Bible!] of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.”

Mark{7:13} Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye
have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Like changing times and laws.

The Catholic Church expressly forbids idolatry, and it can be derived both from the Bible and the practice of the early Church fathers that the principle day of worship for Christians is the Sunday; see Acts 20:7.
They sure did break bread - I eat ever day too.

I have learned that just because it is said “we don’t do…” does not mean a duck does not look like a duck. Included with the BAN of statues, figures, and the like - is the bowing to such thing. You might be able to swap “Worship” with the euphemism of “Veneration” - but I know what a bow is - and the RCC is famous for bows a plenty - to idols.

 

[MM_for_LLPH]

Because there’s more to worship than reading the Bible. Christ said, “'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.” (John 6:53-58, 66-67). THAT is the heart of the Mass.

No (here is what you left out) {6:60} Many therefore of his disciples, when they had
heard [this,] said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
{6:61} When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples
murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
{6:62} [What] and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up
where he was before? {6:63} It is the spirit that quickeneth;
the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you,
[they] are spirit, and [they] are life.

Certainly. And since the Bible is read at Church, what’s the problem?

The purpose of this thread was to ask why the complete reading are not read - by the testimony of this forum - it does not sound like the RCC ever intended to read the entire readings - and if (see below) you couldn’t own a bible - how did things work for over 1000 years?

Huh? Are Catholics punished if they attempt to read the Bible? Since when? It’s never happened to me!

Your history of your RCC is disturbing.
The Council of Trent (1545-1564) placed the Bible on its list of prohibited books, and forbade any person to read the Bible without a license from a Roman Catholic bishop or inquisitor. The Council added these words: “That if any one shall dare to read or keep in his possession that book, without such a license, he shall not receive absolution till he has given it up to his ordinary.”
And we all (i sure hope so) know about the wake of blood that came out of this. Please don’t forget that this did happen.

 

[MM_for_LLPH]

I’m sorry you think the Mother of God, who carried Jesus in her womb, is a devil. Maybe you should try paying more attention to the Word of God: Luke 1:43. Also, Catholics don’t pray to any pagan saints. All the saints were devout Christians themselves and intercede for us, as can be seen by Revelation 5:8; and the Psalmist implores us to pray to an angel, as per Psalm 103:20–21

What i said was the ONLY time the title is given to ANYONE in the bible is a devil. Blessed is Mary mother of Jesus on earth. I will not pray to her or anyone else but Jesus. She needed a redeemer too.

Perhaps you should attempt to not read his works entirely out of context, and attempt to be a little more honest when you read the works of others, if you truly care about the Church of God.

God bless.

Then what is the context? I have read hundreds of pages of his work - the context i provide is dead on. Please correct otherwise. I implore you to just try to read any of his work and keep in your mind - does this even remotely sound like something Jesus said in the NT?

 

[MM_for_LLPH]

Catholics don’t believe the Bible is the perfect guide to life. Actually, I don’t personally know any Christians who do. God is the perfect guide to life.

You’re right that the Roman Catholic Church is not the universal Church. But the Catholic Church is. That’s what “catholic” means…“universal”.

People were accountable before the Bible existed. We are accountable to God.

You are forgetting that the Bible is made of the sacred scripture given to us from the time of Moses. The scripture is the inspired word of God. Ergo - the bible is the direct, trust-able, perfect Word of God. Jesus is the perfect guide to life - we hear about it in the NT - from the bible.

You have just met someone whose life has been wonderfully changed by the truth provided in the bible. What is called the Gospel in the NT is described as:
Of God
Of Christ
Of the Kingdom
Deposit of truth
Source of Salvation
and we are told to LIVE by it - and put our FAITH in it: {1:27} Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be
absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one
spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the
gospel.

 

[MM_for_LLPH]

Are you planning on attending this 24 hour-long mass?

Yes - the sabbath is all day isn’t it? Granted - {2:16} Let no man therefore
judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday,
or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days: ]{2:17} Which
are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.
{2:18} Let no man beguile you of your reward in a
voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding
into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up
by his fleshly mind, {2:19} And not holding the Head, from
which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment
ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of
God.

Still - it is a commandment from God - my house and I will follow it because we are capable of it.

You act like being in continuous prayer is something we are not told to do.

{5:14} Now we exhort you, brethren, warn
them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the
weak, be patient toward all [men. ]{5:15} See that none
render evil for evil unto any [man;] but ever follow that
which is good, both among yourselves, and to all [men.
]{5:16} Rejoice evermore. {5:17} Pray without ceasing.
{5:18} In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God
in Christ Jesus concerning you. {5:19} Quench not the
Spirit. {5:20} Despise not prophesyings. {5:21} Prove all
things; hold fast that which is good. {5:22} Abstain from all
appearance of evil. {5:23} And the very God of peace
sanctify you wholly; and * your whole spirit and
soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of
our Lord Jesus Christ. {5:24} Faithful [is] he that calleth
you, who also will do [it.]

And I have to ask, and I am sure you mean it in good fun, but why do you have a picture of a cat and icons bowing to that cat and the statement that you are a “Servant of Feline Forces”?*

 

[MM_for_LLPH]

(In reply to “Run away from”)

That’s funny. I don’t remember reading that in the Bible.

The biblical term is flee - and it is mentioned at least 100 times as what you do from sin - and false teaching.

 

[EphelDuath]

The biblical term is flee - and it is mentioned at least 100 times as what you do from sin - and false teaching.

But you’ve defined “false teaching” as “everything that’s not in the New Testament.” Where, pray tell, would I find that in the Bible?

If you consider every single person in the MIDDLE AGES educated in Latin - sure - but there were far more NON Latin (education, as we know it, belonged to very few). The bible was not allowed in any other language but Latin till 1582. Why lift the ban if everyone can read it? When you say educated - do you mean the members of the RCC that were allowed to read and teach to the UNeducated masses? The whole world would know Latin - we don’t because God confounded our language. If he wanted everyone to know Latin - I am sure we all would.

Prior to the printing press, nobody wrote books in anything but Latin. It was too expensive, and given that Latin was the lingua franca of the day, there was really no point in doing so. The only people who could afford Bibles were individual parishes and the wealthy – both of those groups would know how to read Latin.

The assumption that modern false profit Protestants represent the entire Biblical Christian community would be the same as RCC claiming the fringe Catholics - you don’t seem to want to claim them. I don’t claim false profits to be of my own either.

No, you misunderstand. Two Protestants, both devout Christians, can read the same Bible, claim the same divine inspiration for the Bible, and yet come to completely different conclusions; which is what happened in history, and resulted in the creation of Calvinism, Lutheranism, Anglicanism, fundamentalism, Methodism, et cetera. Pray tell, how would I determine which of these is true? They all make compelling arguments for their own beliefs using “sola scriptura.”

Perhaps God gave us an infallible Church (Matthew 16:18-19 / Isaiah 22:22) to interpret the Bible; one that would be the pillar of the living truth (1 Timothy 3:15) and wouldn’t falter.

The scripture is ALWAYS right - man should not interpret it - he should OBEY it. You are dangerously close to saying that the scripture - the inspired word of God - is not understandable or followable.

No objection to “scripture is ALWAYS right.” No objection to “man should not interpret it,” either – because only the Church should interpret the Bible, according to the Bible itself:

“First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God” (2 Peter 1:20-21).

It is much easier to understand then most would like to admit

This contradicts the Bible.

“As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction.” (2 Peter 3:16)

1 Kings 13:1-32 - in this story, we see that a man can’t discern between God’s word (the commandment “don’t eat”) and a prophet’s erroneous word (that God had rescinded his commandment “don’t eat”). The words of the Bible, in spite of what many Protestants must argue, are not always clear and understandable. This is why there are 30,000 different Protestant churches and one Holy Catholic Church.

No (here is what you left out) {6:60} Many therefore of his disciples, when they had
heard [this,] said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
{6:61} When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples
murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
{6:62} [What] and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up
where he was before? {6:63} It is the spirit that quickeneth;
the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you,
[they] are spirit, and [they] are life.

Yes. Christ gave us spiritual bread and drink of life in the Eucharist. What’s the contention here?

The purpose of this thread was to ask why the complete reading are not read - by the testimony of this forum - it does not sound like the RCC ever intended to read the entire readings - and if (see below) you couldn’t own a bible - how did things work for over 1000 years?

So the Bible is read at Church, and the Church highly encourages people to read the Bible outside of the Mass as well; yet your argument is that the Church does not want people to read the Bible. Huh?

 

[EphelDuath]

Your history of your RCC is disturbing.
The Council of Trent (1545-1564) placed the Bible on its list of prohibited books, and forbade any person to read the Bible without a license from a Roman Catholic bishop or inquisitor. The Council added these words: “That if any one shall dare to read or keep in his possession that book, without such a license, he shall not receive absolution till he has given it up to his ordinary.”

I’m going to presume you aren’t dishonest, but are simply ignorant of the facts. Given the fact that Martin Luther and the like were spreading lies about the faith, which one could easily accept without proper education or context, it makes sense that the Church would temporarily demand that the Bible not be read without a guide.

This is not contradictory of the Bible at all.

“And Philip running thither, heard him reading the prophet Isaiah. And he said: Do you think that you understand what you read? Who said: And how can I, unless some man show me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.” (Acts 8:30-31)

What i said was the ONLY time the title is given to ANYONE in the bible is a devil. Blessed is Mary mother of Jesus on earth. I will not pray to her or anyone else but Jesus. She needed a redeemer too.

Certainly – so did Moses, and the Israelites went to him to intercede for them on his behalf. Why does the Psalmist implore us to pray to an angel if there’s no reason to?

Then what is the context? I have read hundreds of pages of his work - the context i provide is dead on. Please correct otherwise. I implore you to just try to read any of his work and keep in your mind - does this even remotely sound like something Jesus said in the NT?

Beside the fact that Jesus praised the Centurion’s faith, that doesn’t change the fact that the Pope can be in error. This doesn’t prove the Papacy is a lie. It proves that the Pope can sin, which is just as St. Peter did when he denied the Lord three times.

As none are born righteous - no not one - something has to change us. The Bible is the truth and it that truth you find that there is NOT truth in other religions. I love my fellow man as I am told - but a warning is due to all that believe that Jesus will not have wrath on false religions. I feel all people want to focus on is the love of God - plentiful and overabundant - but is wrath is equal staggering.

I believe the Bible is totally true as well. But we’re both reading the Bible and coming to radically different conclusions. How is this possible? Can the Holy Spirit have authored these confusions and errors, if man is meant to read the Bible without an interpreter?

Those are the fruits of VCII and your very own RCC. Your Popes, Cardinals, and Arch Bishops are included - are they in error too? If you ask me…this sounds like a divided church.

That Catholics are sinners is not disputed. That many Catholics choose not to obey the Church is not disputed; remember, Judas decided not to obey Christ, and he was an apostle!

The scripture is called many things in the BIBLE - like:
Word of God
Word of Truth
Sword of the Spirit
Authoritative

Yet, it’s never called “self-interpreting,” or “the only thing man needs in order to sufficiently understand the revelations of Christ.”

Mark{7:13} Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye
have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Yes: the traditions of man should never be obeyed, such as the tradition invented by Martin Luther than man only needs to obey the Bible, not sacred tradition or apostolic authority, as the Bible itself tells us.

I have learned that just because it is said “we don’t do…” does not mean a duck does not look like a duck. Included with the BAN of statues, figures, and the like - is the bowing to such thing. You might be able to swap “Worship” with the euphemism of “Veneration” - but I know what a bow is - and the RCC is famous for bows a plenty - to idols.

Bowing indicates worship? So when the Israelites bowed to the Ark of the Covenant, they were worshiping it – and yet God didn’t seem to get very upset at that.

Please demonstrate that Catholics are worshiping these statues or saints in any manner. You can post pictures of people kissing statues, but that’s veneration, not worship. It’s only worship if we think these entities are gods in their own right, which they aren’t.

God bless.

 

[diggerdomer]

You are forgetting that the Bible is made of the sacred scripture given to us from the time of Moses. The scripture is the inspired word of God. Ergo - the bible is the direct, trust-able, perfect Word of God. Jesus is the perfect guide to life - we hear about it in the NT - from the bible.

No I am not forgetting anything. My points are, for instance: what did people do before Moses if they had no Bible? They weren’t able to follow God? What about Abraham and Sarah? Isaac? Jacob and his 12 sons (and daughter, and wives/families)?

Also, they didn’t have the New Testament before or during Jesus’ ministry. If the Bible was all we needed, what’s the point of Jesus having become incarnate? Yes, Jesus is the perfect guide to life. Not the Bible. Because Jesus is God.

I am glad you find such inspiration from the Bible. That is as it should be. But the source is God. Many people turned to God before the Bible, or without the Bible. Let’s just keep the priority straight.