Why Christians shouldn't drink alcohol (even if it's in moderation, it's a sin!)

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Here is Aquinas in the Summa:

Article 3. Whether the use of wine is altogether unlawful?

Objection 1. It would seem that the use of wine is altogether unlawful. For without wisdom, a man cannot be in the state of salvation: since it is written (Wisdom 7:28): “God loveth none but him that dwelleth with wisdom,” and further on (Wisdom 9:19): “By wisdom they were healed, whosoever have pleased Thee, O Lord, from the beginning.” Now the use of wine is a hindrance to wisdom, for it is written (Ecclesiastes 2:3): “I thought in my heart to withdraw my flesh from wine, that I might turn my mind to wisdom.” Therefore wine-drinking is altogether unlawful.

Objection 2. Further, the Apostle says (Romans 14:21): “It is good not to eat flesh, and not to drink wine, nor anything whereby thy brother is offended or scandalized, or made weak.” Now it is sinful to forsake the good of virtue, as likewise to scandalize one’s brethren. Therefore it is unlawful to make use of wine.

Objection 3. Further, Jerome says [Contra Jovin. i] that “after the deluge wine and flesh were sanctioned: but Christ came in the last of the ages and brought back the end into line with the beginning.” Therefore it seems unlawful to use wine under the Christian law.

On the contrary, The Apostle says (1 Timothy 5:23): “Do not still drink water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake, and thy frequent infirmities”; and it is written (Sirach 31:36): “Wine drunken with moderation is the joy of the soul and the heart.”

I answer that, No meat or drink, considered in itself, is unlawful, according to Matthew 15:11, “Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man.” Wherefore it is not unlawful to drink wine as such. Yet it may become unlawful accidentally. This is sometimes owing to a circumstance on the part of the drinker, either because he is easily the worse for taking wine, or because he is bound by a vow not to drink wine: sometimes it results from the mode of drinking, because to wit he exceeds the measure in drinking: and sometimes it is on account of others who would be scandalized thereby.

Reply to Objection 1. A man may have wisdom in two ways. First, in a general way, according as it is sufficient for salvation: and in this way it is required, in order to have wisdom, not that a man abstain altogether from wine, but that he abstain from its immoderate use. Secondly, a man may have wisdom in some degree of perfection: and in this way, in order to receive wisdom perfectly, it is requisite for certain persons that they abstain altogether from wine, and this depends on circumstances of certain persons and places.

Reply to Objection 2. The Apostle does not declare simply that it is good to abstain from wine, but that it is good in the case where this would give scandal to certain people.

Reply to Objection 3. Christ withdraws us from some things as being altogether unlawful, and from others as being obstacles to perfection. It is in the latter way that he withdraws some from the use of wine, that they may aim at perfection, even as from riches and the like.
 
Many a priest drinks every day and twice or more on Sundays. They have a problem?
You know, thats why this disease is so democratic, it makes no difference between men or women, rich or poor, clerics and laypeople, all can be affected by the disease called alcoholism.
 
I disagree, to a certain extent. My uncle had one beer, every evening, and only one. He lived to the age of 98 and was no way a functioning alcoholic or any type of alcoholic for that matter. Many adults have a glass of wine with dinner every night as well. I don’t think one can say that someone that has some alcohol on a daily basis necessarily has a problem.
Didnt you read my post?

I said clearly that it is scientific proven that people who drinks a maximum of two glasses of alcohol per day, live longer than those that doesnt drink at all.
 
When my grandmother was little their priest would come over after Mass on Sundays and have a bottle of brandy with her parents. No big deal, at all.
If he had a bottle of brandy every day, then he could have had a problem. If you go through a six-pack every single day, you may have a problem. If you go through a bottle of wine a day, you may have a problem.

Doctors suggest to have a glass of red wine a day for a good heart. I don’t think they would prescribe the whole bottle though.
 
I’m not going to read through all 20 plus pages of this thread to say that some of the best European brewers of beer were Monks and localy, a very devout Catholic family runs of the best brew pubs in the metro.
 
Same with one relative of mine. Has a drink pretty much every day when circumstances allow. He gives it up for Lent every year without a problem though.** I don’t think he is alcoholic at all**.
MMM i love to hear those Words, how many easters have i not promised myself that i will fast at lent and not drink, it use to take a week, then im on it again, how many easter vigils have i not missed because i was too drunk to go to Church.

Ooh but i didnt have a problem, it was the circumstances and the people around, thats where the problem was, and my friends use to tell me that im not an alcoholic, i got my job and where to live so im not like those alcoholics.

But as for your relative, i Think you are right, he is most probably NOT an alcoholic, one drink per day usually doesnt make a person alcoholic but 3 or more might.
 
Even Jesus did not judge the women caught for adultery whom the Jews wanted to stone

I am surprised to see accusations and judgement in a catholic forum even when I have explicitly mentioned it was not my intent
Yes he judged her. He did not condem her. I am not thring to judge your intent. I am pointing out that that is what is coming across.
 
When my grandmother was little their priest would come over after Mass on Sundays and have a bottle of brandy with her parents. No big deal, at all.
If he had a bottle of brandy every day, then he could have had a problem. If you go through a six-pack every single day, you may have a problem. If you go through a bottle of wine a day, you may have a problem.

Doctors suggest to have a glass of red wine a day for a good heart. I don’t think they would prescribe the whole bottle though.
Well priests are no saints:D
as is clearly shown in this video:)

youtube.com/watch?v=TvmA_7pMlX4
 
Didnt you read my post?

I said clearly that it is scientific proven that people who drinks a maximum of two glasses of alcohol per day, live longer than those that doesnt drink at all.
I wasn’t responding to you.
 
But isn’t it a virtue to deny oneself of many of the comforts that world give us
Yes it is but one can only recieve the true benefit of grace from a virtue if they freely choose it. doing so out if guilt or being froced to do so is not virtuous.

Example would be taxes money going to provise for the poor. Because of this I can say I gave at the office. No they took from me at the office I did nothing. So I am still not being charitable to the poor.
 
Can you tell me if drinking alcohol is a sin in relation to post 114.(not if it is a big /small sin or not,but just a sin of negligence and indulgence (say a sin which rates 1 in scale of 50)when there are poor and needy)Cant we go for not lesser expensive options like juice/water etc instead of alcohol?
NOt sure where you live but jucie ( thats good for you and not full of added sugars) cost more that beer.
Not sure about post 114 but just the consumption of any alcohal is not a sin in and of its self.
 
MMM i love to hear those Words, how many easters have i not promised myself that i will fast at lent and not drink, it use to take a week, then im on it again, how many easter vigils have i not missed because i was too drunk to go to Church.

Ooh but i didnt have a problem, it was the circumstances and the people around, thats where the problem was, and my friends use to tell me that im not an alcoholic, i got my job and where to live so im not like those alcoholics.

But as for your relative, i Think you are right, he is most probably NOT an alcoholic, one drink per day usually doesnt make a person alcoholic but 3 or more might.
Clearly being drunk enough to miss Church or any other occasion, or for that matter not being able to go a week without a drink, means one is alcoholic and also
that one is not consuming in moderation.

Yes people can be in denial about alcoholism or any other addiction. But the poster who started this thread was claiming no-one should drink at all for the reason that some have problems with their drinking.

By the same logic doctors should never prescribe strong painkillers to any patient because some abuse them. Not so, of course they should prescribe where needed. And they and their patients should be vigilant about the potential for addiction and abuse, but not to the point of avoiding those painkillers completely (save for those patients who are addicted already or for whatever reason have a high likelihood of becoming addicted)
 
I doubt if there was poverty at the time of Jesus.Did any one starve to death?

.But if we ignore the poor and needy I really doubt whether we are followers of Christ(myself included).Why did pope ask people of Argentina not to come to his inauguration mass and instead donate the travel expenses that wud have incurred to poor people?Flying to Rome from Argentina per se is not a sin but its a nobler act to watch it in TV and donate the air fare to poor.We are called to perfection as the father in heaven is.So If one really really really want to be a true follower of Christ I think we shud **avoid many of our indulgences one of them is alcohol **or at least reduce them
No poor at the time of Christ are you kidding me? Poverty was rapent trought out the world people started at rates we can not even dream of today.

What the Holy father was saying is that is you are coming just to be apart of this don’t waste the money. Yes we are called to perfection, and if you are called to make those kind of scarifices that is great. if God grantes you the Grace to do so. then do it. You have to remember to that God wants us to be joyious and plentiful and to indulge in the bounty that he has given us. ( not over indulge). It is between God and the person what that scarifice is and what over-indulgence would be. That I can not decide for anyone but my self.
 
Yes I know that drinking small amounts of alcohol don’t lead to drunkenness and intoxication (which the Bible clearly condemns). But it still doesn’t make it right!
Yes, it does. There is no difference between drinking alcohol in moderation and anything else.
 
And those are ALL from the OT. We are under the New Covenant of Jesus in the New Testament. Jesus made wine out of water and consecrated wine into His Precious Blood and commanded us to drink it and remember Him. It is not sinful to drink alcohol in moderation.
In post 294 i posted also from the NT.

Yes he made wine and commanded us to drink:) I like that, then i can blame the Lord if i blow it after receiving the Chalice:D

And once again, NO it is NOT sinful to drink in moderation, it even has some benefits, like i said, the person who drinks a maximum of two glasses per day live longer than the one who doesnt drink at all.

Some people are allergic of gluten so they cant receive the host, and some are allergic of alcohol so they cant receive the chalice, therefore it is a good thing that the Church teaches that it is enough and sufficient to receive in either of the speices
 
Do you mean gluttony? That might or might not include drunkenness. That’s up for debate.

Also, no one in this entire thread ever said that it’s sinful NOT to drink alcohol. So the OP is fine not drinking it, and others are fine drinking alcohol. What is not good to do is lecture others about a choice that is under our own discretion. Of course we are not talking about alcoholics. That’s another subject. But drinking alcohol, in moderation, is not sinful according to our Church or Jesus.
Yeah. I think the OP did a little overkill. Not knowing him/her maybe alcohol (or an alcoholic) has damaged the OPs life. It’s good to monitor oneself to make sure we don’t fall into alcoholism or any other vice that can get over on us.

Gluttony = Drunkenness (maybe). Less than the technicality of what the seven deadly sins are called is the seriousness of drunkenness (which again goes quite beyond the zero tolerance of the OP - but deserves mention).
III. THE DIFFERENT KINDS OF SINS
1852 There are a great many kinds of sins. Scripture provides several lists of them. The Letter to the Galatians contrasts the works of the flesh with the fruit of the Spirit: “Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.”
(can be deadly)
Didn’t mean to make you mad or put a crimp in your weekend. 😃

Your last sentence above I fully agree with.

Think I’ll have a little wine with my supper. Like Jesus. And hope it’s not my last.
I WILL stop at some point. :dancing::extrahappy::bounce: < before this point.
 
Here is Aquinas in the Summa:

Article 3. Whether the use of wine is altogether unlawful?

Objection 1. It would seem that the use of wine is altogether unlawful. For without wisdom, a man cannot be in the state of salvation: since it is written (Wisdom 7:28): “God loveth none but him that dwelleth with wisdom,” and further on (Wisdom 9:19): “By wisdom they were healed, whosoever have pleased Thee, O Lord, from the beginning.” Now the use of wine is a hindrance to wisdom, for it is written (Ecclesiastes 2:3): “I thought in my heart to withdraw my flesh from wine, that I might turn my mind to wisdom.” Therefore wine-drinking is altogether unlawful.

Objection 2. Further, the Apostle says (Romans 14:21): “It is good not to eat flesh, and not to drink wine, nor anything whereby thy brother is offended or scandalized, or made weak.” Now it is sinful to forsake the good of virtue, as likewise to scandalize one’s brethren. Therefore it is unlawful to make use of wine.

Objection 3. Further, Jerome says [Contra Jovin. i] that “after the deluge wine and flesh were sanctioned: but Christ came in the last of the ages and brought back the end into line with the beginning.” Therefore it seems unlawful to use wine under the Christian law.

On the contrary, The Apostle says (1 Timothy 5:23): “Do not still drink water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake, and thy frequent infirmities”; and it is written (Sirach 31:36): “Wine drunken with moderation is the joy of the soul and the heart.”

I answer that, No meat or drink, considered in itself, is unlawful, according to Matthew 15:11, “Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man.” Wherefore it is not unlawful to drink wine as such. Yet it may become unlawful accidentally. This is sometimes owing to a circumstance on the part of the drinker, either because he is easily the worse for taking wine, or because he is bound by a vow not to drink wine: sometimes it results from the mode of drinking, because to wit he exceeds the measure in drinking: and sometimes it is on account of others who would be scandalized thereby.

Reply to Objection 1. A man may have wisdom in two ways. First, in a general way, according as it is sufficient for salvation: and in this way it is required, in order to have wisdom, not that a man abstain altogether from wine, but that he abstain from its immoderate use. Secondly, a man may have wisdom in some degree of perfection: and in this way, in order to receive wisdom perfectly, it is requisite for certain persons that they abstain altogether from wine, and this depends on circumstances of certain persons and places.

Reply to Objection 2. The Apostle does not declare simply that it is good to abstain from wine, but that it is good in the case where this would give scandal to certain people.

Reply to Objection 3. Christ withdraws us from some things as being altogether unlawful, and from others as being obstacles to perfection. It is in the latter way that he withdraws some from the use of wine, that they may aim at perfection, even as from riches and the like.
Note to self: posting the writings of St. Thomas Aquinas substantially elevates the conversation, imparts wisdom and discernment. Thanks Kevin.

(hmm. came back to correct my spelling on discernment. But I spelled it right. The r and the n together look like an m. Given the topic it can look like I’m slurring my speech or lacking discer n ment.) 😉
 
Shame on you!!!

This is very low to make fun about something as serious as alchoholism is.
Do you have any idea about how many people has been affected negatively by alchohol?
As someone who struggled with “alcoholism” for years and has affected me negatively in several ways, I can assure you I am not offended 🙂
 
Forget all the debated going on here.I challenge all those who drink in moderation to give up drinking for an year and check if you are attached to drinking or not and let me know if you find it easy to abstain from alcohol for an year
I did not drink a drop for about 21 months because a Judge “Challenged” me not to. I took your challenge already :yeah_me: I am not doing it again! Now I challenge you to a race around the world in hot air balloons! 😃
 
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