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holdencaulfield
Guest
What a joke.
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DannyHaszard
Guest
*Watchtower co-founder Joseph Rutherford dumped holidays,birthdays and the 1874 date for the invisible return on Christ, and invented an earthly class of Witnesses, since only 144,000 can go to heaven in their teaching. The rest, meaning all 99.9% of Witnesses still alive, will live forever on a cleansed earth, under the rule of the Watchtower leaders in heaven, who will keep them in line by local elders known as ‘Princes’. *
Will a Jehovah’s Witness apologist please explain to readers your core doctrine on how it comes to be that only a literal 144,000 go to heaven? And** get this people,they are only selected among Jehovah’s Witnesses who will rule over us all.
That’s right,no Catholics,Muslims,Born again Christians allowed**.
JOHN 10:16 & 144,000
The Watchtower smears all dissidents as, “haughty folks who all want to go to heaven and be boss.” This is a base lie.
This Watchtower teaching of a limited ‘little flock’ of 144,000 'anointed JW going to heaven? If you read the entire 10th chapter of the gospel of John, you will see for yourself @ John 10:16: "I have other sheep, which are, “not of this fold,” those also I must bring, and they will all become one flock… "JESUS is OBVIOUSLY REFERRING TO THE CONVERSION of THE GENTILES! Not two ‘classes of people’.
Also at Revelation chapter 7:4 ,the ref. to the numerical 144,000, this entire chapter is taken by the Watchtower as highly symbolic
Yet they take out of context the 144,000 sum as literal. The boogie-man of the “evil slave;” the precursor to the “apostate”. Look at this parable. The evil slave did something to deem him evil. What did he do? He presumptuously set a date (for him to say, ‘my master is delaying’). Hello, it was the Zions Watchtower’ who set the date (1914). Every thing about the WT’s ivory tower teaching is twisted!
Will a Jehovah’s Witness apologist please explain to readers your core doctrine on how it comes to be that only a literal 144,000 go to heaven? And** get this people,they are only selected among Jehovah’s Witnesses who will rule over us all.
That’s right,no Catholics,Muslims,Born again Christians allowed**.
JOHN 10:16 & 144,000
The Watchtower smears all dissidents as, “haughty folks who all want to go to heaven and be boss.” This is a base lie.
This Watchtower teaching of a limited ‘little flock’ of 144,000 'anointed JW going to heaven? If you read the entire 10th chapter of the gospel of John, you will see for yourself @ John 10:16: "I have other sheep, which are, “not of this fold,” those also I must bring, and they will all become one flock… "JESUS is OBVIOUSLY REFERRING TO THE CONVERSION of THE GENTILES! Not two ‘classes of people’.
Also at Revelation chapter 7:4 ,the ref. to the numerical 144,000, this entire chapter is taken by the Watchtower as highly symbolic
Yet they take out of context the 144,000 sum as literal. The boogie-man of the “evil slave;” the precursor to the “apostate”. Look at this parable. The evil slave did something to deem him evil. What did he do? He presumptuously set a date (for him to say, ‘my master is delaying’). Hello, it was the Zions Watchtower’ who set the date (1914). Every thing about the WT’s ivory tower teaching is twisted!
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abucs
Guest
Can a JW please tell me if the author of Revelations, taken to be saint John, will be among the 144,000 going to Heaven and if he is considered a JW ?
A second question would be that after John saw his vision of the 144,000 and if they are alone destined for paradise, then why didn’t, after he finished his visions immediately found the JW Church but remain in the Catholic one ?
That would sound like John was a little deceitful to me.
Since both he and the prophet Daniel claim to be in Heaven having their visions i’m assuming if God lets them into Heaven to have the visions he’ll let them in at the end also ?
Also the thief on the cross was promised paradise and you have other prophets like Moses and Elijah that i think are promised Heaven as well.
Are these guys considered JW’s too and are they considered part of the 144,000 ?
Doesn’t the bible say the 144,000 are virgins that haven’t been defiled by women ?
Does that rule out all women from the 144,000 of Heaven ?
(At least it will be quiet
).
I’m sorry if my questions come across a bit flippant, but i am interested in knowing what the JW position is on this.
I promise not to argue.
btw i think your man Romney is a good candidate and i wish him well.
A second question would be that after John saw his vision of the 144,000 and if they are alone destined for paradise, then why didn’t, after he finished his visions immediately found the JW Church but remain in the Catholic one ?
That would sound like John was a little deceitful to me.
Since both he and the prophet Daniel claim to be in Heaven having their visions i’m assuming if God lets them into Heaven to have the visions he’ll let them in at the end also ?
Also the thief on the cross was promised paradise and you have other prophets like Moses and Elijah that i think are promised Heaven as well.
Are these guys considered JW’s too and are they considered part of the 144,000 ?
Doesn’t the bible say the 144,000 are virgins that haven’t been defiled by women ?
Does that rule out all women from the 144,000 of Heaven ?
(At least it will be quiet
).I’m sorry if my questions come across a bit flippant, but i am interested in knowing what the JW position is on this.
I promise not to argue.
btw i think your man Romney is a good candidate and i wish him well.
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excaliber
Guest
Jw’s are prejudice against other religions. They will dig up any type of dirt on other religions, but hate when dirt is dug up on watchtower.
However some jw’s have just been
told sooooo many false stories about all other churches besides watchtower …that they are afraid of them.
However some jw’s have just been
told sooooo many false stories about all other churches besides watchtower …that they are afraid of them.
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holdencaulfield
Guest
Yes what about St. Dismas?
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Renton405
Guest
JWs aren’t really saved because they don’t believe Jesus was begotten of the Father. Thus if that is true, he could not provide propiation for sins…
JW are just another heretic sect, almost like a neo-gnostic version of gnosticism…The ECF were very clear on these types of groups, and their opinion holds much more weight than any protestant reformer or “restorationist”…Did the creater of watchtower talk to any of the apostles or their successors himsellf? I think not…
JW are just another heretic sect, almost like a neo-gnostic version of gnosticism…The ECF were very clear on these types of groups, and their opinion holds much more weight than any protestant reformer or “restorationist”…Did the creater of watchtower talk to any of the apostles or their successors himsellf? I think not…
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Ravyn_Guiliani
Guest
Romney is a mormon not a JW. JWs are completely politically neutral–do not vote, do not salute the flag of any nation and do not go to war. They DO however collect every dime of govt money or welfare they can qualify for–which isn’t hard since they are not encouraged to have any higher education or follow any professional careers. (Number one job choice for JWs is janitorial, or in California-car detailer/window tinter. I guarantee there is someone who shampoos carpets in every Kingdom Hall! )
JWs consider the first JW to be Abel. And like all Protestant sects they consider all of the saints and faithful men of old to have been ‘secret’ followers who had to hide their beliefs from the apostate Catholic Church until God allowed them to be revealed (in 1879).
And JW paradise is not in Heaven it is on earth.
oh and the virgin thing means they are pure from false religion, and since they also consider themselves to be the Bride of Christ they believe the gender thing is symbolic—unlike the number.
JWs consider the first JW to be Abel. And like all Protestant sects they consider all of the saints and faithful men of old to have been ‘secret’ followers who had to hide their beliefs from the apostate Catholic Church until God allowed them to be revealed (in 1879).
And JW paradise is not in Heaven it is on earth.
oh and the virgin thing means they are pure from false religion, and since they also consider themselves to be the Bride of Christ they believe the gender thing is symbolic—unlike the number.
Can a JW please tell me if the author of Revelations, taken to be saint John, will be among the 144,000 going to Heaven and if he is considered a JW ?
A second question would be that after John saw his vision of the 144,000 and if they are alone destined for paradise, then why didn’t, after he finished his visions immediately found the JW Church but remain in the Catholic one ?
That would sound like John was a little deceitful to me.
Since both he and the prophet Daniel claim to be in Heaven having their visions i’m assuming if God lets them into Heaven to have the visions he’ll let them in at the end also ?
Also the thief on the cross was promised paradise and you have other prophets like Moses and Elijah that i think are promised Heaven as well.
Are these guys considered JW’s too and are they considered part of the 144,000 ?
Doesn’t the bible say the 144,000 are virgins that haven’t been defiled by women ?
Does that rule out all women from the 144,000 of Heaven ?
(At least it will be quiet
I’m sorry if my questions come across a bit flippant, but i am interested in knowing what the JW position is on this.
I promise not to argue.
btw i think your man Romney is a good candidate and i wish him well.
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abucs
Guest
Thanks RJ,
i am not American and don’t know much about what goes on over there or with the JW and Mormon Churches in general.
My bad.
i am not American and don’t know much about what goes on over there or with the JW and Mormon Churches in general.
My bad.
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holdencaulfield
Guest
I don’t even get what their deal with St. Micheal the Archangel is. Where does that belief even come from?
“No one supports me against them except Michael” (Daniel 10:21)
“At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise.” (Daniel 12:1)
“But even the archangel Micheal when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, The Lord rebuke you!” (Jude 9)
“And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back.” (Revelation 12:7)
Obviously St. Michael the Archangel is an important angel, but the things that the JW’s attribute to him is wrong and blasphemous and goes against common sense. Also why then would St. Michael support the Catholic Church?
Read more
“No one supports me against them except Michael” (Daniel 10:21)
“At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise.” (Daniel 12:1)
“But even the archangel Micheal when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, The Lord rebuke you!” (Jude 9)
“And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back.” (Revelation 12:7)
Obviously St. Michael the Archangel is an important angel, but the things that the JW’s attribute to him is wrong and blasphemous and goes against common sense. Also why then would St. Michael support the Catholic Church?
Read more
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Deusdonat
Guest
Hello Jaded, I’m one Catholic who doesn’t hate anyone. I find the teachings of the JW’s morally repugnant, as I do with all cults (i.e. Mormons, Muslims, SDA’s etc). But hating sin is not the same as hating the sinner.I’m not staying. And I"ve already tried discussing all this. Everyone just wants to hate JWs so I will continue to let you. It just proves my point further - “and you will be objects of hatred by all the nations”. Now watch everyone say “oh we dont’ hate JWs” just so I won’t be right.
My personal experience with JW’s is that the ones I have met usually become JW’s after a tragic or horrific event. In several instances, it was that the father of the family had physically and/or sexually abused others in his own family. In one case, it was the father who then converted and brought the family with him, and in the other two I know of it was the mother who did. In all cases, the parents got a “fresh start” in that their new church accepted them and they could effectively pretend like nothing had ever happened. But in all cases save 1, the families remained disfunctional and most of the children (now adults) do not associate with their parents or the church.
In a couple of these cases, we (myself and my family) are very close with these JW’s (and former JW’s). So, we don’t hate, regardless of however you want to wrap yourself in selective biblical passages
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holdencaulfield
Guest
Hate the sin not the sinner.Hello Jaded, I’m one Catholic who doesn’t hate anyone. I find the teachings of the JW’s morally repugnant, as I do with all cults (i.e. Mormons, Muslims, SDA’s etc). But hating sin is not the same as hating the sinner.
My personal experience with JW’s is that the ones I have met usually become JW’s after a tragic or horrific event. In several instances, it was that the father of the family had physically and/or sexually abused others in his own family. In one case, it was the father who then converted and brought the family with him, and in the other two I know of it was the mother who did. In all cases, the parents got a “fresh start” in that their new church accepted them and they could effectively pretend like nothing had ever happened. But in all cases save 1, the families remained disfunctional and most of the children (now adults) do not associate with their parents or the church.
In a couple of these cases, we (myself and my family) are very close with these JW’s (and former JW’s). So, we don’t hate, regardless of however you want to wrap yourself in selective biblical passages
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pauliztarza
Guest
Popes don’t hate you.Similarities attract.I’m not staying. And I"ve already tried discussing all this. Everyone just wants to hate JWs so I will continue to let you. It just proves my point further - “and you will be objects of hatred by all the nations”. Now watch everyone say “oh we dont’ hate JWs” just so I won’t be right.
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NanaR
Guest
In what way do you feel the JWs are similar to the Pope?
I am puzzled by your response to this thread.
Ruth
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holdencaulfield
Guest
True.
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holdencaulfield
Guest
That’s good, the less you know the better.
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swariffin
Guest
When Pius XII did not fight/condemned the Nazi and Musolini in WW2, People called him as a criminal against the Jews. Gees, shurek. What would you respond about Pius XII? If you were the pope during the war you mentioned, what would you do? For sure, If the pope did not fight during the war you mentioned, you and I would be muslims now.
But still, I don’t believe in any holy war. There could not be. All wars had some hidden agenda in it, and those agendas were nothing to do with God.
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