Why did god allow bad things to happen to this world of his???

[Brady01]

I totally disagree. God did not create evil to test us. Go gives us free will, and free will means that we have the potential to do evil or good. It has to be that way, because if it were not we could not love God because love requires choice (free will).

Unfortunately, many people choose evil. But God cannot just step in every time and negate our choices-- that would take away our free will, and if our free will is taken away, then we cannot truly love God, because we’d be mindless puppets of God.

Do you understand what I mean, Brady01?

yes i understand you…however what happen to the six million jews that died never mind the rest…their is a time when god must stop things from happing that are just unacceptable…like all them people that died…and when you think about it the catholic chuch says it the true and only chuch…therefore jews may have all went to hell

 

[Matariel]

yes i understand you…however what happen to the six million jews that died never mind the rest…their is a time when god must stop things from happing that are just unacceptable…

Why do you blame God? Why don’t you blame Hitler? If God constantly usurped our free will, we essentially wouldn’t be given a real choice anyway.

I bet many of those people in the Halocaust went straight to Heaven. And remember the massive amounts of early Catholic martyrs under Nero and Dormitian, and Julian the Apostate. There were many, many, many martyrs. There are still many martyrs today.

And also, there is a Devil, and he’s not sitting around idly.

like all them people that died…and when you think about it the Catholic Chuch says it the true and only Church…therefore jews may have all went to hell

No, the Catholic Church is the original and only true Church, but the Church teaches that people do the best with what they know, and if they don’t know the Catholic Church is the true Church, then odviously God will consider this.

God understands, and there will be many people in Heaven who were not visibly a part of the Church when on Earth, and there will be some people who, although raised in the Church, disobey the Church and fall away even if they know the Church is true, and they will go to Hell.

So I believe many, many of the Jews in the Halocaust went straight to Heaven or Purgatory.

 

[hamba2han]

Did not God create Satan?

Is not the Anti-Christ created by God?

Does not God know that they will be evil? – Be careful how you answer this question because to say ‘No’ would mean that God is not omniscient and this is something which really does not make any sense at all.

The answer is just so obvious, God created both good and bad things in order to test His creations.

However, it is important to remember that not everything that is “good” is created 100% good and not everything that is “bad” is created 100% evil.

 

[Matariel]

Did not God create Satan?

Is not the Anti-Christ created by God?

Yes and yes.

Does not God know that they will be evil?

He knew they would be.

The answer is just so obvious, God created both good and bad things in order to test His creations.

Originally all was good though. Only later did Satan, Azazel, and the other demons choose evil over good.

 

[R_not]

Everyone answers were great…however the problem is that you could have been one of them poor people that was killed under Nazi laws etc Hitler showed a different side to children. He showed love and peace to them…etc however normal German people were a scared of him at local town meeting etc when Hitler became chancellor of Germany he made children join local groups of Nazi proganda…it was a indoctrinate (brain washing them) children where teach at school to join the army to increase Germany power. Catholic priests were killed also.

why did God not stop him…i think there was 35 attemps to kill him after all none of the work . So why did god not stop the killings…why was people put on the earth ??? if that is what the were used for

I still have to go back to the problem being that it wasn’t necessarily Hitler who the problem was - the ones who followed him and the others who sat back and did nothing to stop him.

The ‘Germans were scared of him’? Well, I am sorry but they let that happen.

We have something similar going on in our current times. Who are we afraid of now in so many of our Western countries? … muslims… so much so that we let them have (in Europe) ‘urban sensitive zones’ that no police go into, that allow them to make life dangerous for non-muslims if they enter those zones, who demand they be safe in ‘our areas’, who intimidate and threaten others if they discuss islam (Geert Wilders is being taken to court over Fitna - a movie that only has surahs showing how muslims are following those surahs), etc.

We allow our children to ‘pray like a muslim’, allow them to bring back segregation under the disguise of modesty when in fact they look at non-muslims as dirty as do they their own women. We allow the left to bash Christianity and elevate islam while not telling the truth about jihad - we cannot even mention their slaughter of the Armenians for fear of offending them! that is only a few of the things that we are allowing - well, I try to work with a group to stop that - but it is an uphill battle because when people COULD do something they sit back in a haze of stupidity veiled over their eyes and are allowing our government to tell us such things as ‘abortion is economically a good thing’ - I mean this is just totally inane. (I don’t want to go into all of what we are now going to be allowing because I could go on for pages!)

Sorry - but the people themselves allow evil because they are too lazy to stop it. A guy such as Hitler, or mohammed, or Stalin, etc come to power because there are always thugs who love to bully and/or kill! And they always seem to know that getting to the children is the first step they need to do to stay in power. Stalin replaced himself as a god, mohammed invented allah out of himself, paganism, and other religions to control and kill and enslave others. Hitler was small time business compared to those two.

 

[Bear_Claw]

I had this same crisis in my life.
It all gets confusing and the more we try to understand I, the less sense it makes.

Bottom line: Based on things like this, God is not involved in this world.
He doesn’t stop bad things from happening because he does not take an active role in life. He created the universe to be a self sufficient unit and it’s running by itself, as intended.

God is Almighty and the Superior being. If he was invovled in life, he would step in. There would be a line that, if crossed, He should step in and re-direct or discipline, or something, but there isn’t.
Even of His chosen people, 6 Million died. What does that tell you…I think this is ample evidence of the “Watchmaker” Theory". Evaluate life for yourself and reason it out. Use logic, not what someone else tells you. Chances are that he tells you this, becassue he was told to believe it too.

What about the effectiveness of prayer?
Just take world peace, because it fits into thie example. How many people pray for world peace? How many devote their entire lives to it? How many people give their lives for it? Does God answer their prayers? Does He see their sacrifices and get invovled? I’m sorry, but He doesn’t. The evidence is right there.

People have free Will. That’s it. That’s why bad things happen. People do these things. We cannot ask God to intervene, because history and eveyday life shows that he doesn’t.
Bad things keep happening, and prayers keep on going unanswered.
R_not is right in a way, that people have to step in, because no amount of praying or asking, or hoping is going to make the bad things stop, because God is not involved.

It’s the only logical explination, the only explination that doesn’t require us to be told, “Just accept it, have faith, God does actually intervene”.
God doesn’t. He is waiting for us at the end of our lives, to judge, but He gave us this life to live without help from Him. That’s just a fact.

 

[R_not]

Bear_claw, and here is why so many do not - because there are so many of their own that call them names, call them ‘not good Christians’, make it as if they are not ‘cool’, etc. It is hard to stand up for what is right and know what is evil, or bad.

I brought up free will in a prior post - but that is what it boils down to - we have a free will and we need to use it.

Now, it really is not unusual to have Hitlers’, mohammeds, Stalins, etc. They are more common than not. What is unique is that we have a way to communicate that is unprecedented. Yes, the evil ones use this form of communication too - but so can it be used for good.

I will say that sometimes good comes out from a slumber and it takes a jolt, or masses of jolts, to awaken good. But, it will win in the end. I do sincerely believe that.

I believe that the face, or facade, of evil is not an ugly beast - but smooth talking, and good looking. Yeah, there are commericials out about some special about the anti-Christ being what I am describing - but I have been posting this on other threads that well before these commercials came out.

We will always have our people who sit back and think that praying alone will cure everything and in the end I think that does indeed help, but there will always be those who stand up and do something about evil in an active manner. The phrase that I learned as a child, ‘God helps those who help themselves’ sort of comes to mind with this group of people.

 

[hamba2han]

For those who say that God is not actively involved in the affairs of the world, if you wish to know what the Creator and Sustainer has done for you lately, I would suggest that you take a look at what is on your plate the next time when you sit down for a meal.

Who is it that gave life to the crops that your bread or rice came from?

Who is it that gave life to the animal that your meat came from?

Who is it that gave life to all the plants that bear the vegetables and fruits of the world?

Who is it that gives life to all of the vegetation in the world which provides the oxygen that we breathe?

Hint – It sure isn’t ‘Mother Nature’ for “she” cannot even survive without the rays of the Sun.

Who is it that created the Sun?

If you gather a team of the world’s best doctors and surgeons in the emergency ward, can they give life back to a fresh corpse?

If every biological scientist in the world were to come together, can they create and give life to just one mosquito or even a single-cell bacteria?

In short, the good and the not-so-good things that God allows to happen to His creations comes in an inseparable gift package called ‘life’.

 

[Bear_Claw]

For those who say that God is not actively involved in the affairs of the world, if you wish to know what the Creator and Sustainer has done for you lately, I would suggest that you take a look at what is on your plate the next time when you sit down for a meal.

Who is it that gave life to the crops that your bread or rice came from?

Who is it that gave life to the animal that your meat came from?

Who is it that gave life to all the plants that bear the vegetables and fruits of the world?

Who is it that gives life to all of the vegetation in the world which provides the oxygen that we breathe?

Hint – It sure isn’t ‘Mother Nature’ for “she” cannot even survive without the rays of the Sun.

Who is it that created the Sun?

If you gather a team of the world’s best doctors and surgeons in the emergency ward, can they give life back to a fresh corpse?

If every biological scientist in the world were to come together, can they create and give life to just one mosquito or even a single-cell bacteria?

In short, the good and the not-so-good things that God “allows” to happen to His creations comes in an inseparable package called ‘life’.

You may have mis-understood my post somewhat, hamba2han.

The answers to your questions are all still concurring with the Watchmaker Theory where God created the earth and stepped away to let it function as the self-sustaining unit that it is.
None of your points require an active daily involvement from God. He created the Universe to sustain itself. He is not involved, but let it run its own course. He placed the sun and created weather patterns to provide rain, etc.

You are right to say that man cannot create life. Life is not an accident. That’s something that atheists have not yet proven. So, lacking that proof, the logical conclusion is that there is a Creator-God that injected life and created the universe. This is (one of) the main argument for Deism over Atheism.
However, the Creator-God is not involved in our daily activities. That was the point of the post. Prayers are not answered. God does not intervene. Mad men are roaming free, killing millions of innocents and no divine intervention occurs. Man himself has to intervene because no other help will come.

Just to clarify.

Thanks.

 

[Matariel]

You may have mis-understood my post somewhat, hamba2han.

The answers to your questions are all still concurring with the Watchmaker Theory where God created the earth and stepped away to let it function as the self-sustaining unit that it is.
None of your points require an active daily involvement from God. He created the Universe to sustain itself. He is not involved, but let it run its own course. He placed the sun and created weather patterns to provide rain, etc.

You are right to say that man cannot create life. Life is not an accident. That’s something that atheists have not yet proven. So, lacking that proof, the logical conclusion is that there is a Creator-God that injected life and created the universe. This is (one of) the main argument for Deism over Atheism.
However, the Creator-God is not involved in our daily activities. That was the point of the post. Prayers are not answered. God does not intervene. Mad men are roaming free, killing millions of innocents and no divine intervention occurs. Man himself has to intervene because no other help will come.

Just to clarify.

Thanks.

God is primarily concerned with the eternal; He leaves it up to us to reform our world, He gave it to us for our dominion.

This doesn’t mean He stepped away, as Deists would say. He sent His Son, whom the humans ended up torturing and crucifying.

He gives us dominion over the world, and we can make it like Heaven, or we can turn Earth in to Hell.

It’s up to us.

This doesn’t mean God doesn’t answer prayer and whatnot; He just doesn’t directly intervene (save on rare occasions, such as miracles and apparitions).

 

[R_not]

I want to give an example why evil happens.

An Egyptian Cleric Justifies The Holocaust,Airs Footage And “Hopes It Will Happen Again But,Allah Willing,At The Hand Of Muslims”.

Cleric’s message

And we have that happening quite often with different clerics - just downright preaching hatred, twisting history to their agenda, inciting war fever against Israelis - and against the West, etc.

And our governments demand nothing from the muslims. They don’t demand they stop lobbing bombs into Israel. They only start demanding when Israel has had enough and strikes back. They don’t demand that the muslims stop killing Hindus and Christians, etc. They don’t start doing something until the Indian government talks about striking Pakistan.

Hindu-Kashmir History (past and current) (I warn you to not click on ‘Effects of Terror’ it is gruesome - but it is repeated in Lebanon when the muslims tortured and killed the Christians there (read 'Because They Hate), it is repeated in Africa, it is repeated against their own muslims, etc.

And we don’t hear anything from anyone - no rioting, no protesting from our left or the so called ‘peaceful’ muslims. We don’t hear from them unless the victims start striking back.

So, who is at fault in our current day and age? It seems that evil has the help of many governments and our own media. And our own left wingers in countries who march in demonstrations against the perpetrators of human rights around this globe. Our Universities are helping it along too by having the MSA (muslim student association) who has direct ties to the muslim brotherhood who have direct ties to hamas and other terrorists. We don’t say anything (well, my group did) when Obama lets a woman speak that has direct ties to hamas.

source:
What was found in Europe
The Project

The Project,part2

What was found in the USA
Government Exhibit 300-0085

I just read that Jewish chilren have to have body guards in their own countries in Europe because the governments are not doing anything about muslim violence against them.

Over 700 ‘sensitive urban areas’ in France alone where the police won’t even enter and if a non-muslim enters it they do at their own risk. While the muslims are safe in the non-muslim areas - they are not expected to behave in the same way.

And evil goes on on a daily basis. The news stories just pile up as proof.

 

[thirdn6]

It gets worse - the Japanese vivisected some of their POWs. ​

Things of this nature make talk of God extremely problematic - it means using language to mean nothing If God is a Saviour from evil, & if being gassed or vivisected is compatible with Divine Salvation, either salvation is meaningless, or it means being handed over to one’s enemies. This kind of thing manifests the wickedness of God, not God’s goodness. I would rather believe in no God, than believe that a God with the attributes Christianity gives him can exist. Those attributes leave God inexcusable. So he cannot claim lack of power, goodness, wisdom, etc. - yet these evils have occurred. Therefore, God is wicked, & wholly unworthy of worship.

“Nothing is really new under the sun” - life is vain. Everything’s worthless.
To the rich men, “Let’s all eat, drink, and be merry… for tomorrow we die!”
To the poor, “Suffer and suffer more because you are idiots and reprobates!”

After creation came sin. The more appropriate word for this sin is this - DISOBEDIENCE! And from that seemingly innocent sin came more sins - pride, envy, murders, killings… barbarism… lusts… the works of the devil!. Man had become so corrupted by the devil. So corrupted that he became an abomination to his God. So corrupted that God eventually obliterated him upon the face of the earth by global deluge except Noah’s family.

And from that family began new generations. But human nature remained the same - sinful! And so killings and destructions and wars resumed. The weak against the strong, the slave…his tyrant, the lowly…the powerful, the justs…the traitors. Did God intervene again? No. He said no more. No more flood to destroy again the human race! And so finally human affairs and destinys are decided by humans. We’re on our own. Survival of the fittest!

But…No. That wasn’t the purpose of life. That wasn’t the purpose of intellect and reasons. God has to do something. He must have good reasons why He created us! Yet powerful, He is also a merciful God. He finds ways to save us from our fallen nature. Thus, He sent no angels to admonish us. He sent no kings to overrule and discipline us or robotize us. He sent His ONLY Son to become like us and teach us the way towards redemption from our sinfulness. He sacrificed himself and died on the cross. And His death defeated death itself. He came back to life from death! By His resurrection He showed us that the promise of eternal life is real. There is hope. Blessed are those who believe yet didn’t see. There is hope!

The ways of God is not the ways of man. God didn’t recreate or interfere with our genes… or with everyone’s intellect…or with everyone’s own free will… after Christ ascended into heaven. He sent His Church instead to spread that good news to us - anywhere, everywhere. Good news of love, of truths, of life, of eternal salvation. For us who heeded that call and listened - we changed our ways. Hearts, minds, souls.

But not all of us. Not all of us! And so most people think ‘everything under the sun is still the same’… if they see killings and wars and persecutions. It’s same 'ol, same 'ol! The rich man still eats, drinks, and enjoys.The poor man still suffers and suffers more. The greedy rakes in wealth and rakes in some more. goes on… and on… and on…

What are we to do when we think there is more evil than good? More hate than love? More inhumanity than justice?
What are we to do when God’s words seem not to suffice to comfort us? Seem contradictory to what befall us?
What are we to do when God seems not to care? When He allows persecutions and calamities?
Maybe right before our very eyes?

Blame Him for not doing anything? For not stopping what we call evil?
Haven’t we all read the warnings? That “all these (horrible) things will come to pass” before He comes again? That "heaven and earth shall pass but His words shall not pass? That in latter times there will be persecutions and sufferings not even seen since the beginning of time? That even when people seek death they will not find it? That days shall be shortened because of these?
Just open your eyes. Watch… and observe…

Brother, we are only His creations. Whether we like it or not, whether we suffer or not - we will die and leave this temporary world. Surely as the sun rises from east to west. Pray therefore that when those things happen we are in a state of His grace. For as Catholic Christians - the only way to go back to our immortal beginning is this… perseverance in FAITH and OBEDIENCE… and die like martyrs!

Peace and keep our Catholic Faith!

 

[R_not]

… and condemn our children and future generations to fight the evil if we just lay back to accept death as a martyr. why not stop it before it comes to such a state that one has to think it is either death, or subjugation? And that would not be the end of our souls, but conversion would be for those too afraid to face evil.

 

[dolphinlove]

Read the warnings Mary gave in Fatima.
Mary warned if the people of Russia didnt bow to God, a worse war would break out, and it did.

 

[Bear_Claw]

If God still interferes in life today, answer me this.

I can understand how innocent people suffer by the hands of a tyrant and a madman, sure, overthrow him, take matters into your own hands, etc…
but
What about disabilities? People who are born blind, deaf, with Downs Syndrome, systic phibrosos, etc the list is endless.

There is no tyrant in this situation. Just an innocent child that is born into a dark world, or a world where he will hear no sound, or in a world where he will be slower at everything, or every breath will feel like he is drowning.

Sure, living in a first world counrty we have care and some form of treatment, but what about these kids born into 3rd world countires?
What did these kids do? I live in a first world country and I weep when I see kids like these. Untill recently my screams to the heavens of “Why God, Why?” have been unanswered. Now I know that He is not listening. Life sustains itself and it is an unlucky process of nature.
Don’t tell me that God uses these children…Sure, one or two on a poster or a TV Spot, but 99% of these kids and their families are left struggling with this perpetually.
Suffering.

If God was invovled surely these little innocents would be on the other side of that line, and He could intervene? Life is random and cruel and it’s unfortunately how it is, but dno’t expect help from God or even a rational explanation for why He is doing this, if he is an invovled god…becasue there is none. The only explanation is that He is not invovled. He is the Architect and the Watchmaker.
All-powerfull, Sure.
Ingenious, Yes.
Invovled, No.

 

[JRBB]

God allows evil to occur because there is always a greater good that comes out of it .An example of it happening would heresies against the Church. The greater of this would be the Church better defining her doctrines and dogma.

 

[Bear_Claw]

God allows evil to occur because there is always a greater good that comes out of it .An example of it happening would heresies against the Church. The greater of this would be the Church better defining her doctrines and dogma.

Or maybe that’s just people starting to think rationally and logically for themselves and that puts the Church on the defensive.

Please show me how a blind child will help the Greater Good.

Your statement sounds pretty conclusive with “always” thrown in there. How do you claim this? Or is it a claim by Faith, or heresay?

There are maybe a small percentage of kids with disabilities that may be listed as helping the greater good, but the majority is just leading a life of suffering and attempting to overcome incredible odds just to lead a remotely normal life.
I still hear the voice of a Downs Syndrome girl crying in her mother’s arms saying “Mommy, I hate being Downs Syndrome.”

There is no Greater Good. God does not intervene. Life is just happening. The quicker we realize that we are not going to get help from God in this life, the better. Then we can get off our beeeehinds and help ourselves.
God is waiting for us at judgment day, but He doesn’t intervene or assist us or answer prayers. It’s up to us.

 

[R_not]

I actually agree with you on the most part, but I do believe that prayers are answered. Not always in the way we want though. And sometimes we are too stupid to realize that.

I do think that accidents of birth happen and it is indeed a part of life. Not all human beings, animals, plants, etc are perfect and they are either dead at birth, do not bring forth good fruit/vegetables/flowers (or whatever that plant brings forth), or live a life of disability. In the animal kingdom they usually don’t survive past their mother, or father, killing them - unless we intervene and take care of them. It is the same with human beings.

I think it is a statement of how a society takes care of their disabled ones that speak for a people. If the society is not progressed beyond an animal stage (countries with human rights abuses), or are too poor, etc it is up to God how they are judged because some are in fact able to take care of their disabled but chose not to, and some cannot.

It is like the Christians, or the Jews, or any group that is slaughtered such as in the holocaust. That is a statement on all of us how these people are treated.

The USA did indeed come and help liberate those people. Would Europe have done the same for us? (that is a question that I have wondered about for quite some time - they barely help themselves and have to be pushed to help anyone else) The USA is not perfect because in the early 20th century our ships were docked offshore while muslims slaughtered the Christian Armenians. I am not saying that we can save everyone and maybe getting into a war is not what we were about at that time (financial or political reasons) but there were many who swam out to the ships and we just ignored them and didn’t do a thing to help them.

Currently, we are allowing so many to be slaughtered by muslims and no news group is really covering it unless the victims strike back at the muslims! Even our country worries more about the muslims than their victims most times. We are afraid of ‘offending’ them.

So, how does that reflect on us as a society? We sometimes help out and sometimes we do not. And too often we just throw money at the aggressors. I wonder what God is thinking about that!?

Overall, I think life just happens. If we are out hiking and a blizzard happens and we are caught in it - then we die. It might even take a while for us to die and it might not be too comfortable. God isn’t going to come down and melt the snow so we can live and walk out of there. No, God gave us a brain and a soul along with free will and we are to use it as best to our abilities. If we were caught in something, like that blizzrd, over our abilities then we die. I might be stating this poorly - I just don’t think that we should expect God to always be there when we are about our lives.

The keyword being - freewill.

 

[Matariel]

If God still interferes in life today, answer me this.

I can understand how innocent people suffer by the hands of a tyrant and a madman, sure, overthrow him, take matters into your own hands, etc…
but
What about disabilities? People who are born blind, deaf, with Downs Syndrome, systic phibrosos, etc the list is endless…

Death (both **physical **and spiritual) and disease are the two results from Original Sin. They are not from God, they are from the Original Parents’ disobedience.

Oftentimes, these people born like this are closer to God, and they often have other talents which far surpass other people who are not disabled.

 

[Matariel]

Or maybe that’s just people starting to think rationally and logically for themselves and that puts the Church on the defensive.

No. The Church had always promoted faith, reason, and logic together. It funded science and invented the educational and medical system. It is not opposed to people examining their beliefs. However, it would encourage people to fully investigate a belief (this can take years) before abandoning it.

Please show me how a blind child will help the Greater Good.

Your statement sounds pretty conclusive with “always” thrown in there. How do you claim this? Or is it a claim by Faith, or heresay?

I, too, disagree with his premise. But at the same time you cannot blame that on God. It is a result of the Original Humans’ sin, not God. Because of that Original Sin, Human beings inherit **disease **and death.

There are maybe a small percentage of kids with disabilities that may be listed as helping the greater good, but the majority is just leading a life of suffering and attempting to overcome incredible odds just to lead a remotely normal life.

Offering suffering to God in atonement for others’ sins and for the world is fruitful. Many of the saints who were diseased, sick, or blind like you say did exactly that-- they offered their suffering in union with God’s Son’s suffering on the Cross. This acceptance leads to sanctity and union with God.

God is waiting for us at judgment day, but He doesn’t intervene or assist us or answer prayers. It’s up to us.

You’re right, it is up to us. But God does intervene in ways we can see (we cannot know how much horrible the world would be if He didn’t). And, usually He leaves us to bring Heaven to Earth or create Hell on Earth.

It’s up to us, but this doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t pray, or that somehow the Church is wrong.

On the contrary, the Church fully agrees that it’s up to us. That is why it is the largest charitable and para-medical organization in the word. And it’s also a divinely-instituted Church.