Why did God create animals in such a way where they don't reflect his nature?

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ChunkMonk said:
Easy solution: stop believing in evolution. God created the world and man as “perfect” beings and with the fall they were cursed and their bodies were changed. Yes their biology was changed. No this is not compatible with evolution.

Evolution does require you to believe in a God who created a corrupt, flawed, disgusting world filled with terror and suffering and death and decided to put His beloved creation in that world. If you don’t want to believe that God did that (I don’t blame you) then you gotta let go of evolution. If you want evolution then you have to believe that God decided to make a deadly place where every hand is turned against each other and survival is purchased only with bloodshed the abode of His most beloved (and as yet sinless) creation.
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Actually creation was not created in perfection but imperfect to make the journey to perfection.

Catechism
V. GOD CARRIES OUT HIS PLAN: DIVINE PROVIDENCE

302 Creation has its own goodness and proper perfection, but it did not spring forth complete from the hands of the Creator. The universe was created “in a state of journeying” (in statu viae) toward an ultimate perfection yet to be attained, to which God has destined it. We call “divine providence” the dispositions by which God guides his creation toward this perfection:
By his providence God protects and governs all things which he has made, “reaching mightily from one end of the earth to the other, and ordering all things well”. For “all are open and laid bare to his eyes”, even those things which are yet to come into existence through the free action of creatures.161
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Are you Catholic? The Catholic Church is open to both doctorines of old earth and new earth creationism…Honestly I don’t know anymore but my hopes is this religion won’t die like the rest, the only way to move with this religion is forwards.

Especially since evolution is proven on so many proofs that you would have to listen to biased archeologists to get a good answer to your question.
 
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I put the “” around “perfect” for a reason. I don’t know the right word… Perhaps flawless would be better, though that isn’t quite it either.
 
I would say maybe you could ask God to show you my inner most thougths on this matter so maybe you could get a vibe of what I am saying.

But in any case I will expalin what I mean.

Sin to me isn’t so much as going against what a creator says but it is more of a logical construct of unclean things. For example I believe masterbation to be bad not because God said so but because its a pointless waste of potential life.

For me I don’t say sin is evil because God declares it such…but I use reason and logic to declare certain things such as rape and masterbation as evil. Such that I apply this concept to other things in creation as well. Obviously animals aren’t culpable for this sin but still i see the acts like rape and masterbation present in the animal world to be considered unclean acts of doing things, when God could have created things more “cleaner”.

Maybe your best bet is to ask God if he can possibliy show you what I am saying on this matter without me having to explain it? I ask God to allow me to see into others thoughts all the time so I can get a vibe of what they are saying…Usually this helps me know if someone is lying or not OR what exactly a person is saying without them explaining it in a 30 min lecture. Though obviously i dislike getting too deep into this type of thinking.

I usually see God as someone I go to for EVERYTHING, yes even reading people’s minds if I have to. Its not me that reads others though, but it is God that shows me. I am not the God here.
 
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I’m a Catholic, though probably not a good one. I don’t put much stock in what’s been “proven” by people who aren’t me. Especially when those things seem utterly contradictory to the things I already know to be true.

All I can tell you is that giving up evolution seems to me to be the only solution to your dilemma here. Or coming to terms with what you believe God did. You seem to want to have two mutually exclusive beliefs, evolution but with the Garden. I can’t see a way to marry the two.
 
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Crusaderbear said:
Taken out of context…they are tools of GOD to do what needs to be done. Don’t take words OUT of my mouth to suit your view, it’s unbecoming of a true child of God.
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Huh?

Not sure what these negative personal comments have to do with the question posed by the OP, but I’ll respond.

I don’t understand how my replying to someone’s words, how stating an opinion takes words out of their mouth. “OUT”? Seriously, why are you shouting? I disagreed with your position, and that is somehow “unbecoming”. I did get what you said, and did not see it your way. That I did not include your entire post, is because the rest, I felt, did not warrant a response. Your first thought made me think, and I passed on those thoughts.

But I will respond to the point you made then and repeated again.

Animals reveal God’s glory, His beauty, the eternal Existence that brings into being all life, His infinite creativity. We contemplate in wonder.

I wouldn’t say that animals are “tools” to do His bidding. Everything that is, is permitted because even if its will, as in the case if Satan, is in opposition to His, it cannot but do God’s will as He transforms all into goodness. Animals are no different in this respect. I would agree that predators maintain a balance in the environment. There is a circle of life.

You asserted that “maybe they don’t reflect God’s nature”. My view is that animals, as does everything in creation, even the very smallest material substance, reflect God’s triune relational nature. We obviously do moreso, being made in His image, but nothing in the universe stands alone. Every individual thing is related to everything else, as itself and one in something bigger. As God exists and acts, being Existence itself and the eternal Cause of all that is, so too does everything else, including animals with their complex instinctual lives.

I would rather we just stick to the topic.
 
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Unrelated to the topic but i am learning about world religions through this neat video that summarizes all world religions into 2 hour long video…Its a bit biased to the new age philosophy but nonetheless usefull in my opinion as a starting point towards learning about all religions as a whole


Hope the mods don’t delete, I want to stay on topic but just thougth I would give a good resource for everyone 🙂
 
Jesus234 said:
I would say maybe you could ask God to show you my inner most thougths on this matter so maybe you could get a vibe of what I am saying.

But in any case I will expalin what I mean.

Sin to me isn’t so much as going against what a creator says but it is more of a logical construct of unclean things. For example I believe masterbation to be bad not because God said so but because its a pointless waste of potential life.

For me I don’t say sin is evil because God declares it such…but I use reason and logic to declare certain things such as rape and masterbation as evil. Such that I apply this concept to other things in creation as well. Obviously animals aren’t culpable for this sin but still i see the acts like rape and masterbation present in the animal world to be considered unclean acts of doing things, when God could have created things more “cleaner”.

Maybe your best bet is to ask God if he can possibliy show you what I am saying on this matter without me having to explain it? I ask God to allow me to see into others thoughts all the time so I can get a vibe of what they are saying…Usually this helps me know if someone is lying or not OR what exactly a person is saying without them explaining it in a 30 min lecture. Though obviously i dislike getting too deep into this type of thinking.

I usually see God as someone I go to for EVERYTHING, yes even reading people’s minds if I have to. Its not me that reads others though, but it is God that shows me. I am not the God here.
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OK, so in Merriam-Webster, unclean has a few meanings. Take the last then, something that “is lacking in clarity and precision of conception or execution” is unclean.

unclean, adjective
1 :morally or spiritually impure
2 :infected with a harmful supernatural contagion; also :prohibited by ritual law for use or contact
3 :dirty, filthy
4 :lacking in clarity and precision of conception or execution
– uncleanness, noun

In that case the question is why does God create animals lacking in clarity and precision of conception or execution, in other words, with imperfection.

Note from the other post, the Catechism states:
302 Creation has its own goodness and proper perfection, but it did not spring forth complete from the hands of the Creator. The universe was created “in a state of journeying” (in statu viae) toward an ultimate perfection yet to be attained, to which God has destined it. We call “divine providence” the dispositions by which God guides his creation toward this perfection:
By his providence God protects and governs all things which he has made, “reaching mightily from one end of the earth to the other, and ordering all things well”. For “all are open and laid bare to his eyes”, even those things which are yet to come into existence through the free action of creatures.161
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I see I guess I have many things of which are my own personal definitions from my own personal experiences in life not found in dictionaries that describe my way of life in Catholicism.

I guess its kind of hard to communicate what I am saying in that sense.

Which is why I urge you to maybe ask God to show you what I am trying to say.

Miracles are possible everyday if you have faith.
 
You may here be expressing what is holding you back from understanding God’s nature and apparently the distinction between ourselves and animals. You urge people to try to understand what you are trying to say as opposed to listening to what they are saying, especially when the Church’s teachings are specifically quoted. The matter isn’t our own specious personal definitions, gleaned only from our own experiences, which in this case seem to have left you asking strangers on the internet to help with your confusion. You should as we all must, pray for God’s help in turning our hearts and minds over to Him.
 
Ok, I mistook your words, I thought you deliberately shortened my response to mean something completely different! Accept my apology - I’ll reword… (I thought you changed it to be God has nothing to do with animals creation…which is wrong. Also - I have never viewed capitalizing a word as shouting, it’s emphasis on that word! Have a good one…
 
Jesus234 said:
…i see the acts like rape and masturbation present in the animal world to be considered unclean acts of doing things, when God could have created things more “cleaner”.
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Maybe God allows animals to act “unclean” in order to differentiate between us and them. It allows us an example: Don’t act like an animal!

Our whole existence is a test. God tests us to see if we will use the gifts He has given us to rise above the level of the animals. It takes an act of will to lift ourselves above the base nature of animals. God is very interested in our acts of will, which is why He gave us free will. He wants to see us do the right thing.
 
That seems a little bit weird, idk I guess i since nobody can give me an answer since the answer is unknown…mabe pray that God would spirituality send me an answer?

Or open my ears to the answer I guess?
 
Then I am still left with this feeling of doubt though…A doubt that sorta impedes me from believing. Some doubts are kinda silly…doubts like this are more heavier. I mean its not like doubt is bad, if it weren’t for doubt we wouldn’t have had science. so idk…
 
It seems to me that believing that animals aren’t a reflection of God is a false assumption. For me it isn’t a problem that is an obstacle to my faith but a mystery to explore. The answers will, with out doubt on my part, increase my faith. This question is not a contradiction to faith but a mystery to explore it more deeply.
 
Jesus234 said:
Then I am still left with this feeling of doubt though…A doubt that sorta impedes me from believing. Some doubts are kinda silly…doubts like this are more heavier. I mean its not like doubt is bad, if it weren’t for doubt we wouldn’t have had science. so idk…
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Belief does not imply absolute certainty.
Belief, noun (American)
SYNONYMY NOTE:
belief, the term of broadest application in this comparison, implies mental acceptance of something as true, even though absolute certainty may be absent; , faith implies complete, unquestioning acceptance of something even in the absence of proof and, esp., of something not supported by reason; , trust implies assurance, often apparently intuitive, in the reliability of someone or something; , confidence also suggests such assurance, esp. when based on reason or evidence; , credence suggests mere mental acceptance of something that may have no solid basis in fact

Webster’s New World College Dictionary, 4th Edition. Copyright © 2010 by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. All rights reserved:
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