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Mr_Skeptic
Guest
Yeah. Same thing. The thinking has already been done for you.
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GEddie
Guest
As someone who has no emotional stake in this issue one way or the other, here is my MX$2, FWIW:
The anti-animals in heaven crowd say animals can’t be there because they have no spiritual soul. This ignores that our human souls need bodies to live, and also that GOD could restore any being, human, animal or otherwise, even if no spiritual trace remained.
The pro-animals in heaven side says that animals MUST be there because human beings just aren’t that special. That isn’t even an argument, it’s a personal value statement. And it ignores that GOD considered human beings special enough to become one.
Basically, why can’t both sides admit that this is an open question, and doesn’t really concern us anyhow, and go on living life???
ICXC NIKA.
The anti-animals in heaven crowd say animals can’t be there because they have no spiritual soul. This ignores that our human souls need bodies to live, and also that GOD could restore any being, human, animal or otherwise, even if no spiritual trace remained.
The pro-animals in heaven side says that animals MUST be there because human beings just aren’t that special. That isn’t even an argument, it’s a personal value statement. And it ignores that GOD considered human beings special enough to become one.
Basically, why can’t both sides admit that this is an open question, and doesn’t really concern us anyhow, and go on living life???
ICXC NIKA.
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Poco
Guest
I can’t seem to find that one in the catholic.com shop. Is it available somewhere else?
In any case, back to the original question, I’m still standing by my original answer. Because they’re cool!
I love questions like this because even though we will not likely find an answer in this lifetime, they generate such lively and interresting discussions AND bring up other important questions such as, “Why did AMC create the Pacer?”.
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Memaw
Guest
And who does your thinking???
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Memaw
Guest
As I said before, NOT really, I have to “think” for myself before I can choose to believe God. That’s the ole intellect and free will kicking in. God Bless, Memaw
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StAnastasia
Guest
Yes, a very early edition, covered with a fine layer of iridium!
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grannymh
Guest
You have that one right, brother. Praise God that He has done the thinking for me.
Now I know why God created me with a different nature than the dionsaur and the dog.
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grannymh
Guest
Again, you are right on, brother. Praise God.
I prefer God’s thinking over a dinosaur’s or a dog’s any day in the week.And I do agree with Memaw that there comes a time when the ole intellect and will kicks in. Human life isn’t always a cat’s life. Sometimes cradle Catholics wake up to the fact that yes, they do have to make a decision regarding Catholicism.
Maybe if dinosaurs had some intellect and will, they wouldn’t have got themselves extinct. Right now they could be in Florida while the poor dogs up north have to make a trip out in the cold to take care of their internal needs.
Blessings,
granny
Isaiah 55
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grannymh
Guest
When one studies creation from the Catholic view point, it is God’s choice that humans do not have the animal nature of the dinosaur.
Catholic teaching is that the spiritual soul of the human being is immortal. This is why the soul continues to live when it separates from the body.
No comment because I have never heard of a “spiritual trace”. Trace chemical elements, but they are matter.
The personal value statement makes sense. However, I sense that there is something deeper. Perhaps confusion about the reality of God.
God’s intention for His creation of the human being is not an open question.
The deeper issue involves the reality of the spiritual soul.
On one side of the spiritual soul issue, are those who consider the realm of science as the final arbitrator regarding what constitutes a human being and what constitutes a dinosaur.
Ah, one says. The human’s spiritual soul cannot be put under a natural science microscope. Therefore, the spiritual soul does not exist. Since the spiritual soul does not exist, it cannot be a requirement for heaven. Thus dinosaurs and dogs go to heaven. This thinking breaks down when one asks – What is heaven?
On the other side of the spiritual soul issue are those who appreciate the value of science and what it has contributed. However, this side recognizes that the realm of science is that of the material and physical world. But that does not automatically eliminate God nor His power to create human nature with a spiritual soul intended to share in His life.
Instead of materialistic science defining human creation, this side recognizes God as a supernatural being Who chose to create human nature as an unique unification of spirit/matter, rational/corporeal, soul/body. This side of the spiritual soul issue recognizes that God as a supernatural being chose to create dinosaurs with a different nature than the human one.
In other words, in my humble opinion, most people think the idea of dinosaurs and dogs in heaven is cute and why not. Some people will ignore the confusion about human nature. Unfortunately, the deeper issue of the confusion is to eliminate the need for a spiritual soul and thus the need for a spiritual Creator. The idea of heaven becomes the spoon full of sugar coating the real damage when one gives up the idea of a spiritual soul.
Blessings,
Human life is meant for eternal life with God.
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Memaw
Guest
Thank you Grannymh, very well said. Some people think they know more than God and His Church. God Bless, Memaw
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StAnastasia
Guest
It’s official: An asteroid wiped out the dinosaurs
news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100304/sc_nm/us_dinosaurs_asteroid
LONDON (Reuters) – A giant asteroid smashing into Earth is the only plausible explanation for the extinction of the dinosaurs, a global scientific team said on Thursday, hoping to settle a row that has divided experts for decades.
A panel of 41 scientists from across the world reviewed 20 years’ worth of research to try to confirm the cause of the so-called Cretaceous-Tertiary (KT) extinction, which created a “hellish environment” around 65 million years ago and wiped out more than half of all species on the planet.
Scientific opinion was split over whether the extinction was caused by an asteroid or by volcanic activity in the Deccan Traps in what is now India, where there were a series of super volcanic eruptions that lasted around 1.5 million years.
The new study, conducted by scientists from Europe, the United States, Mexico, Canada and Japan and published in the journal Science, found that a 15-kilometre (9 miles) wide asteroid slamming into Earth at Chicxulub in what is now Mexico was the culprit.
“We now have great confidence that an asteroid was the cause of the KT extinction. This triggered large-scale fires, earthquakes measuring more than 10 on the Richter scale, and continental landslides, which created tsunamis,” said Joanna Morgan of Imperial College London, a co-author of the review.
The asteroid is thought to have hit Earth with a force a billion times more powerful than the atomic bomb at Hiroshima.
Morgan said the “final nail in the coffin for the dinosaurs” came when blasted material flew into the atmosphere, shrouding the planet in darkness, causing a global winter and “killing off many species that couldn’t adapt to this hellish environment.”
Scientists working on the study analyzed the work of paleontologists, geochemists, climate modelers, geophysicists and sedimentologists who have been collecting evidence about the KT extinction over the last 20 years.
Geological records show the event that triggered the dinosaurs’ demise rapidly destroyed marine and land ecosystems, they said, and the asteroid hit “is the only plausible explanation for this.”
Peter Schulte of the University of Erlangen in Germany, a lead author on the study, said fossil records clearly show a mass extinction about 65.5 million years ago – a time now known as the K-Pg boundary.
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StAnastasia
Guest
Metric or inch-foot?Don’t forget tapeworms!
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spn82756
Guest
As a scientist…I prefer metric! But…there are inch worms too!
Now…as far as the asteroid that killed dino. I remember that. It was beautiful on the way down…but you really had to run for cover quickly…I only had room for my one velociraptor. She’s a good girl. She let Jesus ride her into Jerusalem…per the RSVJE.
She’s great at keeping all the bratty kids out of the yard…and people walking their dogs never let them poop in our yard either.
**
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StAnastasia
Guest
In 1998 I developed an intense hatred of people who allow their dogs to poop on other people’s lawns. This was the result of a 3,000 rpm weed-eater hitting a patch of fresh dog poop just before I had to leave for a science and religion conference…As a scientist…I prefer metric! But…there are inch worms too!
As for your dear velociraptor, a famous paleontolgost whose name I can’t remember once said that we are lucky dinosaurs are enormous, and fierce, and extinct. Mammals would never have evolved to the size of primates – and eventually humans – if the velociraptors and T-rexes had continued roaming around the continents for another 65 million years. That niche for mammalian evolution opened up by the K-T boundary asteroid was a God send! (poetically speaking, at least.)
StAnastasia
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spn82756
Guest
OMGosh…that must have been quite an episode!!!
A big fenced in backyard keeps my 3 german shepherds pooping where they should.
My Godmother…who passed away a month and a half ago…once put a sign in her front yard. Very clear and blatant…Don’t let your dogs s— in my yard!!! It worked!
As far as the asteriod…yes…it was a God send. I would hate to think of us being underground moles!
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Philipp
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Here is the link for this article - a little late.
It’s by Ann Gibbons [perhaps she believes is a distant cousin of the Great apes?]
www.humanorigins.si.edu
But for a good balance I would recommend following www.kolbecenter.org as they rebuild their web site. Here you will obtain authentic Catholic Magisterial teachings on origins.
The burden of proof is on those Catholics who wish to defend the hypothesis that we have descended from a common ancestor like a bacterium over zillions of years, not on those of us who defend what has been authoritatively proclaimed by all of the Fathers, Doctors, Popes and Councils from the beginning of the Church.
It is not necessary for us to provide up to the minute scientific evidence in support of our position. Although some of have tried to do so. Ours is the “default position” for Catholics. It is up to those on this thread and their colleagues to provide the confirmatory evidence that has never been provided for their hypothesis and to answer the grave objections to that hypothesis raised by Dr. John Sanford of Cornell University, Maciej Giertych of Poland and other researchers–and to answer them with experimental evidence, not with more sarcasm, speculation, outdated critique of pioneering research and quotes from the “bureau of consensus.”
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spn82756
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We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Pope Benedict XVI.Here is the link for this article - a little late.
It’s by Ann Gibbons [perhaps she believes is a distant cousin of the Great apes?]
www.humanorigins.si.edu
But for a good balance I would recommend following www.kolbecenter.org as they rebuild their web site. Here you will obtain authentic Catholic Magisterial teachings on origins.
The burden of proof is on those Catholics who wish to defend the hypothesis that we have descended from a common ancestor like a bacterium over zillions of years, not on those of us who defend what has been authoritatively proclaimed by all of the Fathers, Doctors, Popes and Councils from the beginning of the Church.
It is not necessary for us to provide up to the minute scientific evidence in support of our position. Although some of have tried to do so. Ours is the “default position” for Catholics. It is up to those on this thread and their colleagues to provide the confirmatory evidence that has never been provided for their hypothesis and to answer the grave objections to that hypothesis raised by Dr. John Sanford of Cornell University, Maciej Giertych of Poland and other researchers–and to answer them with experimental evidence, not with more sarcasm, speculation, outdated critique of pioneering research and quotes from the “bureau of consensus.”
No…we are not. I agree completely. We are the product of a God driven/guided evolution…as Popes have taught for decades.
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Memaw
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Many years ago this article was in the ‘Letter to the Editor’ of our local paper. I thought it so clever I saved it.Here is the link for this article - a little late.
It’s by Ann Gibbons [perhaps she believes is a distant cousin of the Great apes?]
www.humanorigins.si.edu
But for a good balance I would recommend following www.kolbecenter.org as they rebuild their web site. Here you will obtain authentic Catholic Magisterial teachings on origins.
The burden of proof is on those Catholics who wish to defend the hypothesis that we have descended from a common ancestor like a bacterium over zillions of years, not on those of us who defend what has been authoritatively proclaimed by all of the Fathers, Doctors, Popes and Councils from the beginning of the Church.
It is not necessary for us to provide up to the minute scientific evidence in support of our position. Although some of have tried to do so. Ours is the “default position” for Catholics. It is up to those on this thread and their colleagues to provide the confirmatory evidence that has never been provided for their hypothesis and to answer the grave objections to that hypothesis raised by Dr. John Sanford of Cornell University, Maciej Giertych of Poland and other researchers–and to answer them with experimental evidence, not with more sarcasm, speculation, outdated critique of pioneering research and quotes from the “bureau of consensus.”
Evolution’s Leap of Faith;
A billion or so years ago, in a geothermically heated pool of ooze, a chance gathering of chemicals was energized by lightning, and a life form was created from all supracomplex life forms, including humans, originated.
To believe this notion, preferred by evolutionists, atheists, etc., one must believe that this “life form” was immediately able to ingest nourishment and turn it into energy, thus ensuring its survival. More important qualities, if this miracle in the mud was to survive, would have been the ability and drive to replicate and reproduce. Conceding these qualities to a clump of excited chemicals requires a greater leap of faith than believing in a God-Creator.
Science has never witnessed or caused regenerative life to originate from non-living chemicals. Conversely, it is science’s experience that regenerative life comes only from existing life. Therefore, a living entity, (GOD), existing when life began on Earth, was most probably the origin of life.
God Bless, Memaw
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spn82756
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We know that animals do not have an immortal soul. We also know (well…some of us do) that God can do what He pleases. Nowhere in the Bible or Catholic teaching is there anything that states there are no animals in heaven. That thinking only exists in those that create God in their image.
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Memaw
Guest
NO where in the Bible or Catholic teaching is there anything that states there ARE animals in heaven. That thinking only exists in the imagination of those who want to tell God what HE can do. God Bless, Memaw
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