Why did God create us?

[nightranger]

WOW. I am glad I don’t believe that and that the Church does not teach it.

The Church does indeed teach that. Show me where his assertions are wrong. All those quotes are directly from scripture.

True we may suffer but that is not the reason for our existence.

You just have to be kidding. Surely you do not really accept this concept.

Again, show me in scripture or the CCC where Bob’s assertions are wrong. Suffering is a cornerstone of Catholic faith. If God didn’t want us to suffer, then why would He permit it?

 

[De_Montfort]

The Church does indeed teach that. Show me where his assertions are wrong. All those quotes are directly from scripture.

Again, show me in scripture or the CCC where Bob’s assertions are wrong. Suffering is a cornerstone of Catholic faith. If God didn’t want us to suffer, then why would He permit it?

Suffering only finds its meaning when united to Christ!

All must carry their Cross, both those who serve God, and those who don’t.

I don’t know about anyone else but I want my suffering to mean something, and that only happens united to Christ.

 

[nightranger]

Either that or you reject the concept of free will as a necessary aspect of being created in the image and likeness of God.?

I don’t reject it, but like I said, who would reject grace? Either a lunatic or one who was created never to receive it. Would a truly rational person, who fully understood the splendors of heaven and the unimaginable horror of hell, reject heaven?

You said out of laziness. You never specified that full knowledge and full consent of the will were involved. Would you really risk your soul for an extra hour of sleep? Would you really not have perfect contrition when you were awake? Now who’s the lunatic?

Now you’re contradicting yourself. In your previous post you said I do not understand mortal sin. Now you’re asking me if my soul is worth an extra hour of sleep. Which is it? Also, laziness (sloth) is also a mortal sin. Laziness obviously implies full consent of the will. So now I’m guilty of two mortal sins. Am I still going to heaven? Or as you imply, I would surely walk around in a state of “perfect contrition.” If you read the CCC, perfect contrition is very difficult to have, nearly impossibe in fact. That’s why confession is so important.

 

[nightranger]

There was a heresy floating around about the time of St. Therese of Lisieux (1800 - 1900) that went something like that. A very pessimistic view of God. People still like to hold on to these types of heresies even after the Church discounts them.

There is no way to argue with people who want to be miserable and want the rest of the world to join them.

Show me where any of my statements are in contradiction to church teaching, much less heresy.

 

[BobCatholic]

Would your situation be better if you turned deist? Would this life improve? What about the next life?

It would be easier since it explains how God doesn’t care about my unemployment situation.

It is one thing to have a distant God who cares nothing about you, and life is horrible as a result.

It is a heavier burden to know that a LOVING God, who I thought I had a personal relationship with, and life is horrible. He abandons me and no longer cares for me. This is heartbreaking.

 

[HelenRose]

Show me where any of my statements are in contradiction to church teaching, much less heresy.

God did not create us to suffer. We suffer because we have rejected His plan for us. He created us for Joy. We choose sorrow. Suffering is a part of life but it isn’t the purpose of life.

Jansenism is the heresy that I was talking about. I do not know if your line of thought borders on Jansenism but it sounds depressing enough to match it.

 

[nightranger]

God did not create us to suffer. We suffer because we have rejected His plan for us.

I never rejected any plan He had for me. Which plan are you referring to?

He created us for Joy. We choose sorrow.

What sane person would choose sorrow over joy?

Suffering is a part of life but it isn’t the purpose of life.

Try telling that to the millions of people who know nothing but suffering.

Jansenism is the heresy that I was talking about. I do not know if your line of thought borders on Jansenism but it sounds depressing enough to match it.

No I don’t subscribe to Jansenism. I am not a Calvinist. Again I’ll ask you, what have I said that contradicts church teaching?

 

[sandomenico]

BobCatholic,

I am truly sorry that you are in a bad way, and that no respite shows itself.

I do not know any of the hardships you must be suffering for yourself and your family, so I cannot offer anything but my prayers and these thoughts, whatever they are worth to a suffering man.

If God is as the deists say He is, then we all had better learn to accept things that way, tighten our belts and prepare for a very long, unaided fight against the entire world – yes, alone.

But Christ, as we know Him, worked. He suffered poverty. He suffers in your deprivation with you, because He knows exactly what you endure at every moment. “My yoke is easy, and my burden light.” And He bore the Cross, to death, not in a spiritual sense, but wracked with pain and torture in mind, body and heart.

Do not cry out in anger but in faith. And faith has fed families more than bread, sometimes. Do not lose hope. We are all plugging for you, and your family.

God love you,
sandomenico

 

[HelenRose]

I never rejected any plan He had for me. Which plan are you referring to?

What sane person would choose sorrow over joy?

Try telling that to the millions of people who know nothing but suffering.

No I don’t subscribe to Jansenism. I am not a Calvinist. Again I’ll ask you, what have I said that contradicts church teaching?

I will address the statement. “God created us to suffer”

This contradicts the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

"The life of Man - To Know and Love God. –

God, infinitely perfect and blessed in himself, in a plan of sheer goodness freely created man to make him share in his own blessed life. For this reason, at every time and in every place, God draws close to man…"

I will also address your comment, “Try telling that to the millions of people who know nothing but suffering.”

I would far rather tell a suffering person that their lives are worth more than their suffering.

In times of my own personal suffering, I have turned to God with the full knowledge that my life has purpose beyond the pain and the sorrow.

 

[BobCatholic]

BobCatholic,

I am truly sorry that you are in a bad way, and that no respite shows itself.

I do not know any of the hardships you must be suffering for yourself and your family, so I cannot offer anything but my prayers and these thoughts, whatever they are worth to a suffering man.

Thanks!

If God is as the deists say He is, then we all had better learn to accept things that way, tighten our belts and prepare for a very long, unaided fight against the entire world – yes, alone.

Yup.

But Christ, as we know Him, worked. He suffered poverty. He suffers in your deprivation with you,

He’s in heaven glorified. He’s in the Eucharist. But not suffering. That stopped 2,000 years ago.

because He knows exactly what you endure at every moment. “My yoke is easy, and my burden light.” And He bore the Cross, to death, not in a spiritual sense, but wracked with pain and torture in mind, body and heart.

Do not cry out in anger but in faith. And faith has fed families more than bread, sometimes. Do not lose hope. We are all plugging for you, and your family.

God love you,
sandomenico

I wish I could have more faith. It is a gift from God but it is not being delivered lately.

 

[nightranger]

I will address the statement. “God created us to suffer”

This contradicts the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

"The life of Man - To Know and Love God. –

God, infinitely perfect and blessed in himself, in a plan of sheer goodness freely created man to make him share in his own blessed life. For this reason, at every time and in every place, God draws close to man…"

Respectfully, that does not address the question of suffering. If God did not create us for suffering, then why do we suffer?

I will also address your comment, “Try telling that to the millions of people who know nothing but suffering.”

I would far rather tell a suffering person that their lives are worth more than their suffering.

In times of my own personal suffering, I have turned to God with the full knowledge that my life has purpose beyond the pain and the sorrow.

Those are nice platitudes to be certain. but it still does not address the question. Again I’ll ask you, why is it that God allows suffering, if in fact He hates it? Does not wish it for us?

 

[Pat_Albertson]

My question has been answered…

Did any one poster in particular answer it, or was it the totality of remarks? I am curious . . .

 

[nightranger]

Suffering only finds its meaning when united to Christ!

All must carry their Cross, both those who serve God, and those who don’t.

I don’t know about anyone else but I want my suffering to mean something, and that only happens united to Christ.

Again, very nice platitudes. But what do they really mean?

Those who have a happy, fulfilled life; what “Cross” do they carry? The short answer is none.

And those who have a miserable life? Yea, I agree, their Cross is quite heavy.

So who really praises God for their Cross?

The short answer (again) are those who have no Cross to bear.

If you want to be totally honest about it, the miserable hate their “Cross”, and the happy bear it with joy.

 

[Pat_Albertson]

Here’s a question that I’m asked and don’t know how to answer simply. It’s hard to explaing to non-Catholics WHY God has created us…as humans, and not dogs. Or, why he has created us…period. How can I answer such a question in such a way a non-Catholic would understand. Most non-Catholics won’t accept my usual answer from the catechism!

I don’t have my Catechism at the moment.

I have the same basic question (although, as you will see, a somewhat different slant), and I have to say I am utterly baffled by it.

I have read through the whole thread, and I have heard, read, or been taught every single one of these viewpoints. I think everybody did a very good job, and I myself can add nothing to the content of the thread from the point of chatechistic* answers.

Nevertheless, my own bafflement proceeds from the following observation: the angels are eternal (and thus immortal), in much the way a ray of light is. They had a beginning, but will never have to die. They are also vastly more than we are.

We are mortal; we will die. We hope for eternal life, but nobody can prove we will have it; we must take it on faith. And, what’s more, we are certainly weak (I know I am).

Still, I can easily imagine that God could have made beings like ourselves that could praise Him so much better than we can, that could love Him so much better than we can, that could be in all aspects like supermen and superwomen, and thus far far far beyond us, and yet still be mortal.

Here are some old but vivid examples from The Outer Limits:

1. *]The Man With The Power
   *]The Sixth Finger
   *]The Expanding Human
   
   And here is a novellette by Ted Chiang: Understand
   

   It was nominated for the 1992 Hugo Award for Best Novelette, and won the 1992 Asimov’s Reader Poll.

   A bit more at Understand (story) - Wikipedia
   
   While there was evil in most of those (probably a requirement for dramatic conflict) they emphatically underline the possibility of beings who are mortal, but still far more than we are.
   
   Thus my question: Why? Why us? And why (of all the unworthy people to exist) me???
   
   What is it about us that makes us so much more lovable or worthy of God’s charity or whatever it is than creatures who are obviously better than we are? Why did God do this???
   
   I . . . I just can’t understand it . . . and I am utterly baffled!
   
   *chatechistic: I just made that word up . . . is it a real word? I dunno . . . but it seems like it could be . . .

 

[TheFollower]

Again, very nice platitudes. But what do they really mean?

Those who have a happy, fulfilled life; what “cross” do they carry? The short answer is none.

And those who have a miserable life? Yea, I agree, their cross is quite heavy.

So who really praises God for their cross?

The short answer (again) are those who have no cross to bear.

If you want to be totally honest about it, the miserable hate their “cross”, and the happy bear it with joy.

Wrong.

Jesus clearly stated:
Then Jesus said to his disciples: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and** take up his cross**, and follow me. Mt 16: 24
So what our Lord is saying, everyone has his own cross to bear.

What is my cross?
My cross, as of now is my daily tasks, my job. It doesn’t have to big things.

“Not all of us can do great things. But we can do small things with great love.”
― Bl. Mother Teresa of Calcutta

God Bless.

 

[nightranger]

Wrong.

What is my cross?
My cross, as of now is my daily tasks, my job. It doesn’t have to big things.

You really consider that a “cross?”

You actually think having a job and doing “daily tasks” is a cross to bear?

While millions of other folks endure wars, famine, torture, unemployment etc…? C’mon.

 

[Tony_the_mad]

To answer the original post. We don’t know ‘why’ God created us. Who can know the mind of God? It is a mystery like so many things in this live and especially in the next. We only know what God revealed through the Son. That He loves us and that we are called to serve and love Him and one another. That we are called to know Him. That He suffered for us and we may be called to suffer as well. That He is merciful and caring but that our fate in the next life depends on our choices in this life. That doesn’t address why and that is ok; some things are better left as a mystery until we see Him face to face.

 

[nightranger]

To answer the original post. We don’t know ‘why’ God created us.

Yes we do. He created us to suffer. There are many passages of scripture to support this.

That He suffered for us and we may be called to suffer as well.

True

That doesn’t address why and that is ok; some things are better left as a mystery until we see Him face to face.

I would prefer an answer in this life. It would help me to prepare for the next one. Provided I will even get there.

 

[AtheistOpinion]

Hello.

Shouldn’t this be in the bible? I cant remember. Why are you all arguing.
If it’s not stated in the bible then you simply cannot know.

“He created them to suffer”… i think thats ridiculous and insulting to any supreme being, he creates something to suffer? what kind of weird sadist do you think god is?

“God made me to know Him, to love Him, and to serve Him in this world, and to be happy with Him forever in the next.” … what!?! your god created you so that you would worship and serve him? isn’t that a bit self serving and arrogant of god. No omniscient being could be so selfish.

Personally, I don’t know why God would create humans…but Im certain it wasn’t to watch them suffer or to fulfill his own confidence by having his creations worship over him.
These are something a human would do.

Given that humans exist, id speculate that god created them because they’re the perfect creation to earn! access to heaven.

Why would god want these creations in heaven?? im not sure (maybe so they can enjoy the kingdom)… but then why test humans?? god would already know who is worthy of heaven as he creates them, so why not just create humans directly into the kingdom.

If anything…It certainly wasn’t to make people suffer or fulfill his own selfish needs.

As others have said, its likely the same reason that we wish to have children… and i apologize for saying this but that makes god a little less “god like” and more human… but i think thats a good thing. Maybe god isnt some perfect entity… maybe god does get sad and lonely, so he gave “birth” to children thus starting a family. (maybe the angels are only extensions of himself…maybe when god tried creating one of these entities he accidentally put all of his anger and hate into it, thus creating the devil.

Lol that might explain why we arent a bunch of angels…god learned from the mistake of the devil that creating powerful entities from himself was risky. So he started making babies that were in his image, but not from his source.

I need sleep.

 

[nightranger]

Hello.

Shouldn’t this be in the bible? I cant remember. Why are you all arguing.
If it’s not stated in the bible then you simply cannot know.

That’s called “sola scriptura.” It’s not something a serious Christian would ever adhere to.

“He created them to suffer”… i think thats ridiculous and insulting to any supreme being, he creates something to suffer? what kind of weird sadist do you think god is?

Again, I can quote you verse after verse of scripture which directly supports this.

“God made me to know Him, to love Him, and to serve Him in this world, and to be happy with Him forever in the next.” … what!?! your god created you so that you would worship and serve him? isn’t that a bit self serving and arrogant of god. No omniscient being could be so selfish.

To be quite honest, that’s an ignorant statement. Since you obviously have no knowledge of scripture, it’s difficult to give you an answer.

Personally, I don’t know why God would create humans…

Me either.

I need sleep.

I agree. You certainly do.