Why did God let the Muslims do that?

[Neil_Anthony]

The muslims took over so much of the areas that were Christian in the eastern half of Christendom. In the old testament, when the Jews worshipped false gods, God would let their enemies defeat them.

Did the Christians in Egypt, Palestine, Syria, Asia Minor, etc., do something wrong? Was this a punishment from God/ Or is there some other explanation?

 

[Deacon_Ed]

God doesn’t work that way. The Muslim leaders exercised their free will and, being militarily superior, were successful in their conquest.

Deacon Ed

 

[Neil_Anthony]

God doesn’t work that way. The Muslim leaders exercised their free will and, being militarily superior, were successful in their conquest.

Deacon Ed

But Deacon Ed,
The psalms and prophets are full of places that say God punished Israel through Israel’s enemies. How can you say God doesn’t work like that?
Sincerely,
Neil

 

[bpbasilphx]

Have you tried asking God Himself directly? He could give you a better answer than anyone here.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Have you tried asking God Himself directly? He could give you a better answer than anyone here.

Maybe… although maybe he already told some of the saints, and God wants me to ask questions here to find out what the saints had to say?

I’ll try asking God directly, but please don’t let that stop you from giving answers if you have them.

 

[PrayForMeStJude]

I’m actually somewhat jelous of the Christian communities under Muslim rule in the middle east. The faith and the community found in them is so strong. Just like in the early Church, persecurion strengthens the faith. Roman Catholicism (especially in America) could use some good old fashioned persecution every once in a while.

 

[Deacon_Ed]

But Deacon Ed,
The psalms and prophets are full of places that say God punished Israel through Israel’s enemies. How can you say God doesn’t work like that?

The God of Israel did not punish the people – they did that to themselves. The God that Jesus reveals is a God of love who calls His children to follow him. The God of the Old Testament is the same God, a God who cannot change. The prophets interpreted events in light of how faithfully the people kept the teachings – and assumed that the problems that followed were “punishments” from God. You may recall that every time Jesus was asked if a person’s problems were due to his sins or his parents he replied: that it was not because of sin but, rather, that God’s works could be shown.

Deacon Ed

 

[Addai]

The muslims took over so much of the areas that were Christian in the eastern half of Christendom. In the old testament, when the Jews worshipped false gods, God would let their enemies defeat them.

Did the Christians in Egypt, Palestine, Syria, Asia Minor, etc., do something wrong? Was this a punishment from God/ Or is there some other explanation?

Neil I believe there is something to what said. I know in some areas like India and south and central asia the Assyrian Church slid into a lukewarmness, nominalism, materialism, etc. from its great prosperity and elevated social station (being upper caste) prior to Tamerlane arriving on the scene. So yes, sometimes I think God does allow persecution to chastise the Church much like Israel.

But there are different causes and types of persecution. You have of course this church in Revelation

“To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:

These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again. 9 I know your afflictions and your poverty—yet you are rich! I know the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. 10 Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.

11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death.

Many churches that have suffered decline actually fit this. Many are just struggling to keep their faith after going through centuries of being pummeled. And in this case, simply keeping one’s faith through it all is considered “enough” as far as God is concerned.

 

[Ceil-1]

I have read that many of these areas were bastions of the great heresies such as Arianism.

 

[Jay53]

Not sure is this is what you’re looking for, but I have this booklet at home. I’ll post what I think is the relevant part to your question and the website (it appears the booklet is available to read online). (It’s called The Holy Ghost Our Greatest Friend, by Fr. Paul O’Sullivan, O.P.) Hope this helps.

THE GREAT SIN AGAINST THE HOLY GHOST AND ITS PUNISHMENT

The fall of Constantinople and its destruction is a striking example of the awful punishment meted out by God to those who sin against the Holy Spirit.

The Greeks, led by their Patriarchs Photius and Cerularius, denied the Divinity of the Holy Ghost and, after apparently renouncing their error, fell back into the same sin. They were threatened by Pope Nicholas V with God’s anger if they did not repent. This they obstinately refused to do.

Three years later, in 1453, Mahomet II, at the head of a formidable Moslem army, surrounded the city and after fierce fighting defeated the Greeks and captured Constantinople-----this, on the very feast of the Holy Ghost. Fearful massacres, pillage and fires lasted three whole days, reducing the inhabitants to an awful plight. Mahomet, on the fourth day, entered the city, took possession of the Imperial Palace and turned the cathedral into a mosque.

Constantinople has since then lain under the cruel yoke of the Turks for over 500 years. What a punishment!
catholictradition.org/Tradition/holy-ghost.htm

 

[malphono]

Not sure is this is what you’re looking for, but I have this booklet at home. I’ll post what I think is the relevant part to your question and the website (it appears the booklet is available to read online). (It’s called The Holy Ghost Our Greatest Friend, by Fr. Paul O’Sullivan, O.P.) Hope this helps.

That’s very nice but Constantinople was sacked by the Crusaders too. (Another case of “see how these Christians love one another,” I guess.) In any case, it has nothing to do with the Arab invasion and conquest of the Middle East and North Africa, and the subsequent persecution (or, in the case of North Africa, destruction) of the the native Christian communities.

Perhaps it is as Addai says:

Addai:

… Many are just struggling to keep their faith after going through centuries of being pummeled. And in this case, simply keeping one’s faith through it all is considered “enough” as far as God is concerned.

The Copts, the Maronites, the Syriacs, the Assyrians-Chaldeans, and the Melkites have weathered the onslaught. So, too, have the Armenians. (I did not include the Antiochian Orthodox in the listing for a particular reason that I will not go into here.) Without undue polemics, I think the fact that we still exist despite the best efforts of the invaders/conquerors says something in and of itself.

 

[Addai]

Yep much of this is a continuation of the classical question of theodicy first written about in Job (how can the righteous suffer while the wicked prosper). Ultimately it is mystery that must be accepted on Faith (that God is working all things for our good and the good of the Church as a whole).

 

[Jennifer_G]

I’m actually somewhat jelous of the Christian communities under Muslim rule in the middle east. The faith and the community found in them is so strong.

Which, may partially answer the question. (Jesus said the gateway to Heaven is narrow, and few enter) There was a similar thread in another forum titled “Why did God allow protestantism”, and one of the points was that more “competition” forces the church to clarify their teachings, and that churches with nearby protestant churches tend to be more traditional.

 

[Addai]

Which, may partially answer the question. (Jesus said the gateway to Heaven is narrow, and few enter) There was a similar thread in another forum titled “Why did God allow protestantism”, and one of the points was that more “competition” forces the church to clarify their teachings, and that churches with nearby protestant churches tend to be more traditional.

I can see the bit about clarifying teaching but not the one on “churches with nearby protestant churches tend to be more traditional”. American Catholics are completely surrounded by Protestants in this country. American Catholics have been notorious since the 1800s of “going native” accepting many American (Protestant) attitudes and beliefs to the dismay of the Vatican. Being more liberal then much of the Catholic world (except for parts of Europe like England and Germany) etc.

 

[Ignatius]

Did the Christians in Egypt, Palestine, Syria, Asia Minor, etc., do something wrong? Was this a punishment from God/ Or is there some other explanation?

Did Jesus do something wrong that he let the people torture, spit on, insult, and finally kill Him in the most painful way?

Concerning the blind man, his desciples asked “Who sinned, this man or is parents.” Jesus told them neither. That’s not how God works. Sinful man has free will and the ability to disobey Him and do things contrary to His wishes.

 

[rien]

The muslims took over so much of the areas that were Christian in the eastern half of Christendom. In the old testament, when the Jews worshipped false gods, God would let their enemies defeat them.

Did the Christians in Egypt, Palestine, Syria, Asia Minor, etc., do something wrong? Was this a punishment from God/ Or is there some other explanation?

Maybe the Chritians were in hery. The Eastern church has many so called heresies around the Trinity and nature of Christ. Clealry many early Christians did not accept these doctrines. But the Western church imposed a beleif on a recalictrant Eastern church for centuries.

Yet the heresies kept arising - Islam teaches in part that Christians strayed from the turth and Eastern Chritians, who always had doubts on the nature of Jesus and the Trinity, embraced Islam over several hundred years. North Africa had been Christian don’t forget but it was a restless Chriatianity doubtful of dogmas being imposed by the Roman church.

Philip Jenkins new book on Christianity in the near east explains in part why it was so easy, dare I say natural, for Eastern Christians to convert to Islam over the several hundred years when North Africa went from being Christian to being Muslim.

 

[Volodymyr_988]

“Why did God let me lose my job?”

“Why did God let my child get cancer?”

“Why did God allow my son have to get blown to bits by that roadside bomb in Iraq?”

“Why did God allow my husband to leave me?”

Etc… ad infinitum.

Find out the answers to those questions too.

 

[PaulAndrew83]

Well not that I want to ignore the person above, Chances are there is a reason why God allowed it.

SIN!!!

And why are we getting owned in the west today?

SIN!!!

I would bet on that.

Paul

 

[ASimpleSinner]

Philip Jenkins new book on Christianity in the near east explains in part why it was so easy, dare I say natural, for Eastern Christians to convert to Islam over the several hundred years when North Africa went from being Christian to being Muslim.

What is the title of this Jenkins tome?

 

[Shin]

Ask Job.