Why did it take 300 years or so for the canon to be collected into the Bible?

  • Thread starter Thread starter GodHeals
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
G

GodHeals

Guest
Hi,

Why did it take 300 years or so for the Western Church to collect the Holy Spirit inspired books into the Bible? I understand that even the the Eastern and Western church didn’t agree based on any early ecumenical councils as to one collection, but that is a different topic.

It seems the early church was more based on tradition and the scriptures they used for liturgical practice? Or was there heresies that the early church started to deal with and decided there was a need for a collection of the books?

Thanks!
Brian
 
May I recommend reading the book “Where we got the Bible” by Bishop Henry Graham.

The basic answer is that 300 years of harsh persecutions, the Church was underground and basically could not hold any councils.

After Constantine (313AD), the Church was freed, and then it took decades to collect and copy all the books being read at masses throughout Christendom. Before the councils that defined the canon, there were dozens of gospels, dozens of Acts, several Apocalypses and much more. Over 200 books were examined at the councils.

Remember this was before the internet and it took a huge amount of time to collect and copy those books.
 
May I recommend reading the book “Where we got the Bible” by Bishop Henry Graham.

The basic answer is that 300 years of harsh persecutions, the Church was underground and basically could not hold any councils.

After Constantine (313AD), the Church was freed, and then it took decades to collect and copy all the books being read at masses throughout Christendom. Before the councils that defined the canon, there were dozens of gospels, dozens of Acts, several Apocalypses and much more. Over 200 books were examined at the councils.

Remember this was before the internet and it took a huge amount of time to collect and copy those books.
Thank you for sharing!

I actually think i might have that book and vaguely recall something to this effect. So it was more about the persecuting of the early church, and the inability to construct a formal canon of scripture, not because they didn’t desire to do it. But like you said, no technology like today: internet, airplanes, etc.

I thought maybe there was something more, like heresy or the need not to have a bible, since Jesus never said to write anything down.
 
God inspired whom He would to write scripture. Those who were inspired lived in various parts of the known world, and in different decades. At that time, there was no communication other than sending word, or perhaps a letter with travelers, who would reach their destination perhaps months later, if at all. As we see from Paul’s voyage to Rome in captivity, it was by the grace of God that he and crew even arrived. There were only primitive surface “roads.” Epic, world changing events were heard about weeks, or months later.

Consider the 27 books of the New Testament that we have. They were written over perhaps 50–60 years! Several decades of Church growth, various cultures and languages to deal with, innumerable miracles and other life-changing events, and four Gospels and 23 short (some very short) letters are all we have? These cover almost 70 years of Church history! Joel Osteen has written more than this in the last year alone! How long do you suppose that it took John’s Gospel, the last written, to be copied and carried intact to the far ends of the Christian world using donkeys, camels, crude ships, or human feet to transmit them?

Add into this the fact that the early Church was heavily persecuted, and lived underground for much of the time. It was an oral, rather than a written Church, and the writings took two to four generations to be written, and several more to be known throughout the Church. Yet, as we learn from the prologue to Luke (Luke 1:1-4), those being taught learned nothing from the New Testament scriptures that they had not already learned via the oral Apostolic paradosis (Tradition).
 
Remember this was before the internet and it took a huge amount of time to collect and copy those books.
Were it to happen today I wonder if any of CAF would be considered inspired? I suppose even I could get a mention! 🙂

I rather like the thought of “The Holy Blog of Peter” or “The Tweets of the Apostles”.
 
Well, for one, Christians (and Jews for that matter) did not have a Bible in the modern sense: different books bound under a single cover, a closed, fixed canon. In fact, Jesus, the disciples, and generations of early Christians in general would have found the modern Bible very strange.

What they had were collections of different writings, ‘libraries’, if you will, that differed from community to community depending on factors such as availability of certain texts, use of a particular writing (very often, a local church has more chance of owning books which are used more often than those which are used only rarely or not at all), as well as the particular theological orientation (ranging from ‘orthodox’ to ‘heretical’) and the needs of the local church in question. These libraries were open and freely interconnected with other, that texts flowed and morphed within larger, non-centralized social networks, kind of like ‘teh Internetz’. This was how different writings spread throughout different communities.

From an outsider’s perspective, there was simply too many ‘Christianities’ (you had people who believe that Jesus is the eternally only-begotten Son of God, others who thought that He was a Son merely in an ‘adopted’ sense, still others who held Him to be a divine being but not necessarily consubstantial with God, yet others who reasoned that He was merely human, etc.) with too many different writings (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John…Thomas, Peter and Mary?) with too many variants in too many different languages (there was Greek and Latin, yes, but Syriac, Armenian, Coptic, and whatever ‘barbarian’ languages you could name too). You first need to sort out and define which of these beliefs is the correct one before you can move further: which was really the reason why Christians spent time talking about the person of Christ before they ever got around to defining the Scriptural canon.

In addition, the technology of the codex was not able to hold anything close to an entire canon of Judaeo-Christian Scriptures (the longest codices would have been no more than two hundred pages long - which was already quite a lot of papyrus - and given that codices were intended for public reading, their handwritten scripts would have been quite large enough to be legible) until the 4th century. It wasn’t coincidental that the establishment of the canon and the official defining of Christian orthodoxy took place after the Church rose from being a barely-tolerated (and sometimes-persecuted) slaves’ religion to a legally-recognized faith and eventually, the official belief system of the Empire, when it came to have more than enough elbow room to set the record straight and when there was precisely a need for greater regulation and conformity.

It was at this time, when the Church became richer and gained more social status that we begin to see different Scriptural books being collated together in very high-quality (and obscenely expensive, we could warrant), if rather bulky codices, which necessitated the deaths of many an animal and the combined efforts of different scribes to produce. 😛 The birth of the modern Bible came hand in hand with the closing of the canon.
 
Were it to happen today I wonder if any of CAF would be considered inspired? I suppose even I could get a mention! 🙂

I rather like the thought of “The Holy Blog of Peter” or “The Tweets of the Apostles”.
I’ll warn you: you’d have at least five blogs all claiming to be Peter’s and the comment boxes will be filled with people going on about how Peter is not really the one who posts but someone else using his name (or even a ‘Petrine community’ who really operates the blog). 😛
 
I’ll warn you: you’d have at least five blogs all claiming to be Peter’s and the comment boxes will be filled with people going on about how Peter is not really the one who posts but someone else using his name (or even a ‘Petrine community’ who really operates the blog). 😛
Just look at the immense confusion and disorder that results from even the few books that we have! The canon was closed for a divinely-inspired reason.
 
I’ll warn you: you’d have at least five blogs all claiming to be Peter’s and the comment boxes will be filled with people going on about how Peter is not really the one who posts but someone else using his name (or even a ‘Petrine community’ who really operates the blog). 😛
An excellent point! But think of the hits on the Blog of Revelation!😃
 
Add into this the fact that the early Church was heavily persecuted, and lived underground for much of the time.
A little clarification is in order here. In reality, much of the Christian persecution in the Roman Empire were local affairs undertaken on a sporadic and ad-hoc basis and determined by local conditions. Christians were very often indeed the target of discrimination from the local authorities and the general public, but it was not until the 250s, under the reigns of Decius and Valerian, that general laws were passed against them. (The Decian persecution is really the first universal and organized persecution of Christians.) The popular image of a vicious, Empire-wide persecution would fit more the reigns of Diocletian and Galerius than their predecessors. Even Nero seems to have been limited himself to the Church in Rome, and there is some debate as to just how harsh Domitian’s persecution of Christians in the late 1st century was (if a widespread religious oppression really did occur at all).
 
It was an oral, rather than a written Church, and the writings took two to four generations to be written, and several more to be known throughout the Church. Yet, as we learn from the prologue to Luke (Luke 1:1-4), those being taught learned nothing from the New Testament scriptures that they had not already learned via the oral Apostolic paradosis (Tradition).
A little offtrack comment.

BTW, as I’m typing this post I’ve been listening to some samples of Jewish chanting up on Youtube, which unfortunately isn’t really very well represented when compared to chants of other religions.

In a world where not too many people could read (much less write), many scrolls and books were more like secondary aids for the spoken word. The written word at that time was not designed to be just taken off the shelf and read silently (in fact, the whole concept of reading books silently was something strange for people back then), they were meant to be read aloud, oftentimes in the presence of other people. And when we say ‘read’, it meant not just mouthing the words, but singing it into speech.

The written word and its oral chanting were interdependent in Judaism, as in other ancient religions. Scriptures were written with the assumption that they would be chanted; such melodic ritual performance was an interpretive act, making the text come alive and which both drew out and generated meaning. As mentioned, the low literacy rates necessitated that literature be shared publicly through oral performances and discussions: when a poet composed poetry he would have ‘read’ it aloud to a group of friends, patrons, or to the general public, or more precisely, sung it. When Jesus is said to have read the scroll of Isaiah in Nazareth (as per Luke), He would not have simply ‘talked the words’ but read it through tuneful, prosodic chanting.

It goes without saying that the Jewish practice of publicly chanting Scripture is the genesis of the Christian version we are familiar with. 😛
 
Hi,

Why did it take 300 years or so for the Western Church to collect the Holy Spirit inspired books into the Bible? I understand that even the the Eastern and Western church didn’t agree based on any early ecumenical councils as to one collection, but that is a different topic.

It seems the early church was more based on tradition and the scriptures they used for liturgical practice? Or was there heresies that the early church started to deal with and decided there was a need for a collection of the books?

Thanks!
Brian
Actually you hit on the answer. The Bible was liturgically necessary. It was originally an attempt to collect those writings that were suitable to be read at Mass. This was necessary because of all the fake writings that were produced by the Gnostics which spread confusion among the early christians. So the Bible was liturgical in its original and continuing purpose. It was to be read and understood in the realm of the Catholic Church. It was not intended to be a self study guide to christianity. This was a protestant perversion of the 16th century that continues today.
 
The earlychurch not only had the books of the NT, but used them as well. From three early church fathers writings, Clement of Rome, Ignatius and Polycarp. These three quoted passages from all thebooks of the NT except for Jude and 2John, the latest writings by Polycarp from around 110 AD.Ignatius citied every NT book except 2Thessalonians, 2John, and Jude. So the NT books written in various places around the empire not only found there way to Asia Minor by the first decade of the second century, but were authenticated and in use. Even though Jude and 2John weren’t included, they certainly were written. Jude, being Jesus brother had to be dead before 100 and since 3John is referenced 2John must have been written as well.
Undoubtedly there were more than the 27 NT books under consideration when the Bible was compiled, but there is strong evidence most of the NT books were written and considered authoritative by the early first century.

Additionally, the letters of the Apostles were intended for study by congregations. Paul instructed she Collosian church to exchange letters with the Laodicean church.
Collossiana 4:15 Give my greetings to the followers at Laodicea, especially to Nympha and the church that meets in her home. 16 After this letter has been read to your people, be sure to have it read in the church at Laodicea. And you should read the letter that I have sent to them.

Other Apostles intended for multiple churches to read their letters.
1Peter 1:1 From Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ. To God’s people who are scattered like foreigners in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia.
2Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, servant and apostle of Jesus Christ: to them that have obtained equal faith with us in the justice of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ.
James 1:1 James, the servant of God and of our Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Jude 1:1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ and brother of James: to them that are beloved in God the Father and preserved in Jesus Christ and called.
So these letters were accepted and in use long before there was an official Bible.
 
The earlychurch not only had the books of the NT, but used them as well. From three early church fathers writings, Clement of Rome, Ignatius and Polycarp. These three quoted passages from all thebooks of the NT except for Jude and 2John, the latest writings by Polycarp from around 110 AD.Ignatius citied every NT book except 2Thessalonians, 2John, and Jude. So the NT books written in various places around the empire not only found there way to Asia Minor by the first decade of the second century, but were authenticated and in use. Even though Jude and 2John weren’t included, they certainly were written. Jude, being Jesus brother had to be dead before 100 and since 3John is referenced 2John must have been written as well.
Undoubtedly there were more than the 27 NT books under consideration when the Bible was compiled, but there is strong evidence most of the NT books were written and considered authoritative by the early first century.

Additionally, the letters of the Apostles were intended for study by congregations. Paul instructed she Collosian church to exchange letters with the Laodicean church.
Collossiana 4:15 Give my greetings to the followers at Laodicea, especially to Nympha and the church that meets in her home. 16 After this letter has been read to your people, be sure to have it read in the church at Laodicea. And you should read the letter that I have sent to them.

Other Apostles intended for multiple churches to read their letters.
1Peter 1:1 From Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ. To God’s people who are scattered like foreigners in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia.
2Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, servant and apostle of Jesus Christ: to them that have obtained equal faith with us in the justice of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ.
James 1:1 James, the servant of God and of our Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Jude 1:1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ and brother of James: to them that are beloved in God the Father and preserved in Jesus Christ and called.
So these letters were accepted and in use long before there was an official Bible.
steve,

Not so sure all the books of the NT were accepted so early. It varied of course but Eusebius and Irenaeus did not accept James and 2 Peter. Polycarp never mentioned anything by John. It was an evolving process until all the churches accepted the 27 NT books by general informal consensus. There was no formal canon until Trent.

Rob
 
The earlychurch not only had the books of the NT, but used them as well. From three early church fathers writings, Clement of Rome, Ignatius and Polycarp. These three quoted passages from all thebooks of the NT except for Jude and 2John, the latest writings by Polycarp from around 110 AD.Ignatius citied every NT book except 2Thessalonians, 2John, and Jude. So the NT books written in various places around the empire not only found there way to Asia Minor by the first decade of the second century, but were authenticated and in use. Even though Jude and 2John weren’t included, they certainly were written. Jude, being Jesus brother had to be dead before 100 and since 3John is referenced 2John must have been written as well.
Undoubtedly there were more than the 27 NT books under consideration when the Bible was compiled, but there is strong evidence most of the NT books were written and considered authoritative by the early first century.

Additionally, the letters of the Apostles were intended for study by congregations. Paul instructed she Collosian church to exchange letters with the Laodicean church.
Collossiana 4:15 Give my greetings to the followers at Laodicea, especially to Nympha and the church that meets in her home. 16 After this letter has been read to your people, be sure to have it read in the church at Laodicea. And you should read the letter that I have sent to them.

Other Apostles intended for multiple churches to read their letters.
1Peter 1:1 From Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ. To God’s people who are scattered like foreigners in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia.
2Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, servant and apostle of Jesus Christ: to them that have obtained equal faith with us in the justice of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ.
James 1:1 James, the servant of God and of our Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Jude 1:1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ and brother of James: to them that are beloved in God the Father and preserved in Jesus Christ and called.
So these letters were accepted and in use long before there was an official Bible.
Submariner was right. I should note that 2 Peter, James, and Jude were all antilegomena, meaning that their authenticity or value were under dispute in some (but not all) circles before the canon was formally closed - and to an extent, even after that. Take for example the Peshitta, which eventually became the standard translation of choice for the Syriac-speaking churches: in its original did not include 2-3 John, 2 Peter, Jude and Revelation (although other ancient Syriac translations apparently had them.) In fact, it would seem that the Syriac churches originally limited itself to the gospels, Acts and the Pauline epistles before finally accepting (a few of) the general epistles. In the West, the discussion centered itself more on Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 3 John and Jude, while in the East the status of James, 2 Peter, 2-3 John, Jude and Revelation continued to be debated.

IMHO the status of NT books for the first three centuries of Christianity is quite similar to that of the OT in Second Temple period Judaism in that it would have been an open ‘canon’. In other words, Christians already had some pretty good guesses as to which books were authoritative, but that did not prevent them from considering other books (which eventually did not make it in) to be of some equal status or from questioning books which were within this yet-informal ‘canon’.

The NT canon seems to have developed in stages. It would seem that the very first works to be collected were the letters of St. Paul, since St. Ignatius of Antioch already makes reference in his letter to the Ephesians to “Paul, the holy, the martyred, the deservedly most happy…who in all his Epistles makes mention of you in Christ Jesus.” It would suggest that Paul’s epistles were already known to Ignatius not just as individual letters but as a collection. People who opine that 2 Peter is a pseudepigraphical work written around the early 2nd century would also add its reference to Paul’s letters (3:15-16) as evidence that a collection of Paul’s letters existed pretty early, and that it was being treated as somehow authoritative comparable to “the other scriptures” (most likely in the sense of any book which were read in synagogue and in house-churches). St. Polycarp of Smyrna also makes a number of references to letters of Paul in his letter to the Philippians, suggesting that at least some of Paul’s letters were already in circulation (though it is unclear which ones or how many).

These things, brethren, I write to you concerning righteousness, not because I take anything upon myself, but because ye have invited me to do so. For neither I, nor any other such one, can come up to the wisdom" of the blessed and glorified Paul. He, when among you, accurately and stedfastly taught the word of truth in the presence of those who were then alive. And when absent from you, he wrote you a letter, which, if you carefully study, you will find to be the means of building you up in that faith which has been given you, and which, being followed by hope, and preceded by love towards God, and Christ, and our neighbour, “is the mother of us all.” For if any one be inwardly possessed of these graces, he hath fulfilled the command of righteousness, since he that hath love is far from all sin.
 
As far as the gospels are concerned, we can already find sayings of Jesus quoted by Apostolic Fathers like Clement of Rome or Ignatius. In neither case, however, can we be sure that these writers had access to a written gospel, let alone a collection of gospels. Polycarp makes reference to a passage from Matthew that suggests that he had, or knew of, a written text, but once again we do not know if he had access to more than one account of Jesus’ life. Papias already makes reference to a tradition (which he claims to have received from ‘John the presbyter’) of Mark transcribing “whatever [Peter] remembered of the things either said or done by the Lord” and Matthew authoring a work he dubs the Logia or ‘Oracles’ “in the Hebrew dialect.” Some authors like Richard Bauckham would also argue that he also knew of John’s gospel or a version thereof, and possibly even Luke. If this is correct, this would make Papias (so far) the earliest person we can name who knew all the four gospels.

It is with St. Justin Martyr in the mid-2nd century that we get a clearer evidence of a collection of gospels. Justin often speaks of “the memoirs of the apostles” which, he says, were read during every Sunday liturgy at Rome (First Apology 67.3). It seems from the extracts he provides that these ‘memoirs’ comprise of, or include, the synoptic gospels (Matthew, Mark and Luke). His contemporary Tatian is also said to have produced a harmonized version of different accounts of Jesus’ life, dubbed the Diatessaron, which was so influential that some Syriac-speaking Churches considered it to be the gospel before the four separate gospels were (re-)introduced via the Peshitta. The fact that Tatian could take such huge liberties with the text is also revealing: it would suggest that these four gospels, while already of some fame, had not yet achieved a fixed status as Sacred Scripture.

The formation of a New Testament canon was encouraged by - ironically - the work of Marcion, who also lived at the same time period. Marcion held a dualist system of belief, where he distinguished between the jealous inferior god of the Old Testament (who also happened to be the creator of this world) and a superior, more benign and merciful ‘Heavenly Father’ of the New. He also held Jesus to be the son of this higher God but understood the incarnation in a docetic manner, i.e. that Jesus’ body was only an imitation of a material body. In contrast to the nascent Christian church, Marcion declared that Christianity was distinct from and in opposition to Judaism: for him, a literal reading of the Old Testament shows that the Israelite god is clearly not the same God spoken of by Jesus. This line of thinking has many elements in common with certain Christian gnosticisms, but Marcion differed from gnostics in that in his view, the ‘Heavenly Father’ was an totally alien God who had no connection whatsoever with the world: He really only intervened to save humanity because He was that merciful and awesome.

To support his view, Marcion was the first to propose a fixed canon of Scripture. His canon consisted of only eleven books grouped into two sections: the Euangelikon, a version of the Gospel of Luke purged of any references to Jesus’ childhood (because Jesus wasn’t really human, was He? :rolleyes:) or Jewishness (because we all know that the Jews were worshipping a vengeful tribal deity 🤷) or virtually any material that challenged his dualistic viewpoint, and the Apostolikon, a selection of ten letters of Paul (obviously edited), whom Marcion considered the only correct interpreter and transmitter of Jesus’ teachings.

Marcion’s idea furthered the notion in proto-orthodox Christianity that a clearer line between what is ‘orthodox’ and what is ‘heretical’ is in order. In rejecting Marcion’s position the need to name certain writings as authoritative soon emerged. A key figure here is St. Irenaeus of Lyons, who insisted that four, and only four gospels, should be accepted as reliable and authoritative. While there was still some debate regarding Luke (due to Marcion’s use of it), Irenaeus’ position came to be widely accepted, and so, by the end of the 2nd century, there existed more or less a fixed collection of four gospels.
 
It was not intended to be a self study guide to christianity. This was a protestant perversion of the 16th century that continues today.
The popular idea of the Bible as a self-contained, self-interpreting, black-and-white-with-no-shades-of-gray book of answers or, as one adage puts it, ‘Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth’ is really what you get when you combine sola scriptura and popular 18th-19th century Evangelicalism (which in turn is rooted in a highly-romanticized image of 16th-17th century Puritan piety). This so-called ‘Puritanic Biblicism’ upheld the Bible as a cure-all for each and every social, familial, and individual ills, especially that of burgeoning industrial America.

Puritanic Biblicism in turn begat many offspring, such as the fundamentalist movement and neo-evangelicalism. Fundamentalism was a reaction to two intellectual revolutions of the late 19th century - Darwinism and Biblical higher criticism - both of which challenged the view that the Bible is an empirical account of human history or the literal Word of God, while the media-savvy neo-evangelicalism is in turn a reaction against the separatist stance fundamentalism has since taken. The idea of Bible studies and the (rather lucrative) modern Bible publishing business is also a brainchild of this idea: working under the idea that the Bible is the solution for all questions and problems in this life and the next, groups like the American Bible Society and the Gideons were founded to save society by getting the printed Word out through various means.
 
The (rather lucrative) modern Bible publishing business is also a brainchild of this idea: working under the idea that the Bible is the solution for all questions and problems in this life and the next, groups like the American Bible Society and the Gideons were founded to save society by getting the printed Word out through various means.
And, despite their good-faith efforts, society is less religious and sicker than ever. Without a unifying authority, a bible in every hand serves only to divide rather than unite. There seems to be a demonstrable inverse proportion between the number of bibles in circulation and Christian unity.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top