Why did Jesus die on the cross?

[Milliardo]

Hi2. Pilate’s wife saw a dream and forbade Pilate of killing Jesus. Was this from God or from devil? Naturally, it was from GodAllahYHWH, so it shows that GodAllahYHWH wanted to save Jesus’ life.

Have nothing to do with this man…the warning from his wife, in effect, simply means not to condemn Jesus with the same charges that the Pharisees were giving Him. Pilate washed his hands as a sign that he is not responsible for innocent blood.

One could see a secret hand of GodAllahYHWH in all the events related to Jesus’ crucifixion working to save him from death. GodAllahYHWH always helps his ProphetsMessengers against all odds, so it happened.

 

[b_justb]

paarsurrey:

Hi
The Catholic don’t reason; they say that it is a mystery, just to conceal the reality.

The Catholic Church never says that Jesus’ death on a cross is a mystery. To the contrary we state very firmly that it is a physical reality.

To assert that Catholics don’t reason is to call Catholics stupid. You’re on a Catholic Message Board and once again you attempt to insult us. Why do that? First you assert that Catholics are enemies of Jesus. Now we don’t reason.

In America we call that: “two strikes.”

 

[anthony022071]

John 15,13:

“There is no greater love than this: to lay down one’s life for your friends.”

John 16,7:

“Yet I tell you the sober truth: It is much better for you that I go. If I fail to go,the Paraclete will never come to you.”

Jesus humbly submitted to die on the cross to prove his love and to set an example of true love for his followers to follow. After he died, he gave the Holy Spirit to his disciples so that they could go and spread the gospel to the world.

 

[paarsurrey]

Jesus humbly submitted to die on the cross to prove his love and to set an example of true love for his followers to follow.

Hi
I agree that Jesus humbly submitted to the will of God, but it would be putting words into the mouth of Jesus that “submitted to die on the cross to prove his love and to set an example of true love for his followers to follow.”

1. Yes, he loved God, to whom he remembered on Cross and prayed to God on the Cross, that is on record.
2. It was beyond him to die or not die on Cross, it was in the hands of those who had put him on the Cross or in the hands of GodAllahYHWH to save him from death for which he prayed aloud, and it is recorded.
3. He did not say any word on the Cross “to prove his love and to set an example of true love for his followers to follow” if he said any word for that on Cross, please quote it. I don’t think he said anything like that which is on record.

Please don’t put words into Jesus’ mouth.
Thanks

 

[Milliardo]

Hi
I agree that Jesus humbly submitted to the will of God, but it would be putting words into the mouth of Jesus that “submitted to die on the cross to prove his love and to set an example of true love for his followers to follow.”

How could that be when it is recorded in Scripture that it is so?

1. He did not say any word on the Cross “to prove his love and to set an example of true love for his followers to follow” if he said any word for that on Cross, please quote it. I don’t think he said anything like that which is on record.

Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, they know not what they do.”–Luke 21:34

“Amen, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”–to the good thief, Luke 21:43

 

[paarsurrey]

Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, they know not what they do.”–Luke 21:34

“Amen, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”–to the good thief, Luke 21:43

Hi
The first one is for the Jews.
The second one is for the thief, probably a Jew.
Thanks

 

[Milliardo]

Hi
The first one is for the Jews.

Yes, but in a greater sense it is for all of us who have crucified Him through our sins. This forgiveness extends not only to the Jews then, but to everyone.

The second one is for the thief, probably a Jew.

You did ask to show any record of Jesus showing an example for His followers, right? Those are two examples where He shows love and mercy for other people. I don’t think you can get any clearer than that, or are you looking for any other examples?

 

[anthony022071]

Hi
I agree that Jesus humbly submitted to the will of God, but it would be putting words into the mouth of Jesus that “submitted to die on the cross to prove his love and to set an example of true love for his followers to follow.”

1. Yes, he loved God, to whom he remembered on Cross and prayed to God on the Cross, that is on record.
2. It was beyond him to die or not die on Cross, it was in the hands of those who had put him on the Cross or in the hands of GodAllahYHWH to save him from death for which he prayed aloud, and it is recorded.
3. He did not say any word on the Cross “to prove his love and to set an example of true love for his followers to follow” if he said any word for that on Cross, please quote it. I don’t think he said anything like that which is on record.

Please don’t put words into Jesus’ mouth.
Thanks

Matthew 16,24-25:

Jesus said to his disciples: “If a man wishes to come after me,he must deny his very self,take up his cross,and begin to follow in my footsteps.Whoever would save his life will lose it,but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.”

Matthew 20,17-19:

As Jesus was starting to go up to Jerusalem,he took the Twelve aside on the road and said to them: “We are going up to Jerusalem now. There the Son of Man will be handed over to the chief priests and scribes,who will condemn him to death. They will turn him over to the Gentiles,to be made sport of and flogged and crucified. But on the third day he will be raised up.”

Matthew 20,26-28:

“Anyone among you who aspires to greatness must serve the rest,and whoever wants to rank first must serve the needs of all. Such is the case with the Son of Man who has come,not to be served by others,but to serve,to give his own life as a ransom for many.”

Matthew 26,50-54:

At that moment they stepped forward to lay hands on Jesus,and arrested him. Suddenly one of those who accompanied Jesus put his hand to his sword,drew it,and slashed at the high priest’s servant,cutting off his ear. Jesus said to him: “Put back your sword where it belongs. Those who use the sword are sooner or later destroyed by it. Do you not suppose that I can call on my Father to provide at a moment’s notice more than twelve legions of angels? But then how would the Scriptures be fulfilled which say it must happen this way?”

 

[paarsurrey]

Matthew 16,24-25:
Jesus said to his disciples:

Hi
All your quotes are before Jesus was put on Cross.
I think he said not a word for his love of his followers ( that was the point) or atonement or resurrection or ascention on the Cross. Do you agree with me?
No compulsion to answer.
Thanks

 

[anthony022071]

Hi
All your quotes are before Jesus was put on Cross.
I think he said not a word for his love of his followers ( that was the point) or atonement or resurrection or ascention on the Cross. Do you agree with me?
No compulsion to answer.
Thanks

Of course he said those things before he was put on the cross! –
he was prophecying his own death and resurrection in those quotes that I gave,and he died as “a ransom for many”,which means atonement for sins. Read the quotes again.

John 15,9-17:

“As the Father has loved me,so I have loved you. Live on in my love. You will live on in my love if you keep my commandments,even as I have kept my Father’s commandments,and live in his love. All this I tell you that my joy may be complete.This is my commandment: love one another as I have loved you. There is no greater love than this : to lay down one’s life for his friends. You are my friends,if you do what I have commanded you.”

 

[John_Hiner]

Hi
Please remember following points in this connection:

1. The Romans were after all human beings, the might err.
2. Pilate’s wife saw a dream and forbade Pilate of killing Jesus. Was this from God or from devil? Naturally, it was from GodAllahYHWH, so it shows that GodAllahYHWH wanted to save Jesus’ life.
3. Though Pilate was not that courageous to set Jesus free openly but underhand he did all he could to save Jesus’ life.

One could see a secret hand of GodAllahYHWH in all the events related to Jesus’ crucifixion working to save him from death. GodAllahYHWH always helps his ProphetsMessengers against all odds, so it happened.
Thanks

Praise be to God.

Still: Do you have any historical sources who report failed Roman executions? Or Roman governors ordering “faked” executions to be carried out in public, but not killing the victim?

I am trying to evaluate your claim that the Catholic view is not “reasonable.” It seems that historical evidence from other Roman executions is relevant to that question.

Peace.

John Hiner

 

[paarsurrey]

Praise be to God.
Still: Do you have any historical sources who report failed Roman executions? Or Roman governors ordering “faked” executions to be carried out in public, but not killing the victim?
I am trying to evaluate your claim that the Catholic view is not “reasonable.” It seems that historical evidence from other Roman executions is relevant to that question.
Peace.
John Hiner

Hi
Praise be to GodAllahYHWH, I am with you in praising God, there is none worthy of praise except Him.
Please don’t mind, I am not posting here to assess efficiency or non-efficiency of the Roman Umpire. For me this one is one of the perfect examples of how GodAllahYHWH helps his ProphetsMessegers against their enemies against all odds. The more the Roman Umpire is proven efficient, the more this fact becomes stronger that GodAllahYHWH is praiseworthy, if He decides for saving life of his beloved ProphetMessenger none has the power to alter His decision. I think it is reasonable.
Thanks

 

[anthony022071]

Of course he said those things before he was put on the cross! –
he was prophecying his own death and resurrection in those quotes that I gave,and he died as “a ransom for many”,which he would atone for the sins of those who would believe in him. Read the quotes again.

And as for Jesus’ love for his followers –

John 15,9-17:

“As the Father has loved me,so I have loved you. Live on in my love. You will live on in my love if you keep my commandments,even as I have kept my Father’s commandments,and live in his love. All this I tell you that my joy may be complete.This is my commandment: love one another as I have loved you. There is no greater love than this : to lay down one’s life for his friends. You are my friends,if you do what I have commanded you.”

 

[paarsurrey]

anthony022071:
Hi
Your quote is long before he was put on Cross for killing him by the Jews to prove Jesus a false Prophet as a punishment in terms of : Deuteronomy 18:20-22. The text is as follows:
“But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.”

So, while Jesus was on the Cross his primary worry was that GodAllahYHWH saves his life and he is **not killed **for which his supplications were reserved on Cross.
Catholics,please remain limited to what he said on Cross.
Thanks

 

[anthony022071]

Hi
Your quote is long before he was put on Cross for killing him by the Jews to prove Jesus a false Prophet as a punishment in terms of : Deuteronomy 18:20-22. The text is as follows:
“But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.”

Yes, he said those things before he was put on the cross to forewarn the disciples what must happen accordring to the old scriptures.

The Jews did not prove Jesus was a false prophet by killing him.
That is a stupid way to think. There had been other true prophets who had been put to death,such as Zechariah.

And Jesus did not presume to speak anything in God’s name that God did not command him to say. And Jesus did not speak in the name of other gods.

 

[paarsurrey]

paarsurrey;2433930:

Hi
And Jesus did not presume to speak anything in God’s name that God did not command him to say.

Hi
And that is why Jews could not kill him on Cross. This only proves that Jesus **did not deify **himself ever, he was a Son of Man/Woman only and a true Prophet only like Jonah. He was not killed, but died a **natural death **in Mohallah Kahnyar, Sirinagar, Kasmir , in India.
Thanks

 

[adrift]

But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."

Jesus is NOT a prophet. Jesus is the Messiah and He is God.

 

[paarsurrey]

Jesus is NOT a prophet. Jesus is the Messiah and He is God.

Hi
Kindly quote from OTBible where Jews have been commanded to kill any person who is claimant of God?
I think you would find none.
Thanks

 

[anthony022071]

Hi
Kindly quote from OTBible where Jews have been commanded to kill any person who is claimant of God?
I think you would find none.
Thanks

You are missing the point! The point is that the Jews who had Jesus put to death did not know for sure that he was truly the Son of God – just as the Jews in Jeremiah’s time were not sure if Jeremiah was a true prophet. The Jewish high priests and scribes did not want to believe in Jesus,because Jesus had accused them of hypocricy and injustice. He had angered them,and their hearts were hardened against him,so they sought to kill him.

 

[anthony022071]

anthony022071;2434011:

Hi
And that is why Jews could not kill him on Cross

. This only proves that Jesus **did not deify **himself ever, he was a Son of Man/Woman only and a true Prophet only like Jonah. He was not killed, but died a **natural death **in Mohallah Kahnyar, Sirinagar, Kasmir , in India.
Thanks

The Romans killed him on the cross. Where in the Bible does it say that he died in India?