Why did Lot offer the angry mob his daughter?

[BornInMarch]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

Does the Bible not say that drunkeness is also a sin? So if he were drunk and had sex with them, he’s still just as guilty. And Im sorry, I dont buy drunk/sleepy excuse. Being drunk doesn’t make a person do crazy things like have sex with their daughters.

Do you know what Drug Facilitated Sexual Assault is? It is when a rapist drugs his (or in this case, her) victim so that the victim is physically unable to resist sexual advances. This also means that the victim is unable to give consent.
Rape, by definition, is when sex is forced upon someone who either A. does not consent or B. gives false consent because of duress.

Drunkenness may be sinful, but a drunk person still does not deserve to be raped. To say she or (in this case, he) does is just horrible.

It is possible that if Lot drank himself unconscious, than his daughters could have taken advantage of him without him even knowing.

 

[Achilles6129]

And yet they were spared because they were so unperverse and unlike the rest of the city.

Perhaps they were unperverse at the time but became wicked after the cities were destroyed. Also, you’ll remember the reason they had intercourse with their father:

“31 And the firstborn said to the younger, “Our father is old, and there is not a man on earth to come in to us after the manner of all the world. 32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, so that we may preserve offspring through our father.”” Gen. 19:31-32 (NRSV)

They evidently believed that the destruction of Sodom/Gomorrah meant that all life (except for them and their father) had ceased to exist on the planet.

Does the Bible not say that drunkeness is also a sin? So if he were drunk and had sex with them, he’s still just as guilty. And Im sorry, I dont buy drunk/sleepy excuse. Being drunk doesn’t make a person do crazy things like have sex with their daughters.

In this case Lot’s daughters got him drunk and obviously you’re incapacitated while you’re drunk. It’s also important to realize that God is completely silent when it comes to Lot and that nothing Lot says or does is sanctioned by God in any way.

 

[Peter_Plato]

And yet they were spared because they were so unperverse and unlike the rest of the city.

God respects free will. We make our own choices. The rest of the city had made their choices previously. The daughters may have chosen otherwise.

 

[NotAllHere]

Does Judges 19 give us any further insight?

22 Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him.

23 And the man, the master of the house, went out unto them, and said unto them, Nay, my brethren, nay, I pray you, do not so wickedly; seeing that this man is come into mine house, do not this folly.

24 Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing.

25 But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go.

26 Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man’s house where her lord was, till it was light.

27 And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and, behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold.

28 And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered. Then the man took her up upon an ***, and the man rose up, and gat him unto his place.

29 And when he was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel.

30 And it was so, that all that saw it said, There was no such deed done nor seen from the day that the children of Israel came up out of the land of Egypt unto this day: consider of it, take advice, and speak your minds.

 

[Thorns]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

Do you know what Drug Facilitated Sexual Assault is? It is when a rapist drugs his (or in this case, her) victim so that the victim is physically unable to resist sexual advances. This also means that the victim is unable to give consent.
Rape, by definition, is when sex is forced upon someone who either A. does not consent or B. gives false consent because of duress.

Drunkenness may be sinful, but a drunk person still does not deserve to be raped. To say she or (in this case, he) does is just horrible.

It is possible that if Lot drank himself unconscious, than his daughters could have taken advantage of him without him even knowing.

That explanation only works for male to female rape. A male who is incapacitated cannot “get it up” and therefore cannot be raped.

 

[Thorns]

Perhaps they were unperverse at the time but became wicked after the cities were destroyed. Also, you’ll remember the reason they had intercourse with their father:

“31 And the firstborn said to the younger, “Our father is old, and there is not a man on earth to come in to us after the manner of all the world. 32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, so that we may preserve offspring through our father.”” Gen. 19:31-32 (NRSV)

They evidently believed that the destruction of Sodom/Gomorrah meant that all life (except for them and their father) had ceased to exist on the planet.

In this case Lot’s daughters got him drunk and obviously you’re incapacitated while you’re drunk. It’s also important to realize that God is completely silent when it comes to Lot and that nothing Lot says or does is sanctioned by God in any way.

So the ends justify the means, in other words?

 

[BornInMarch]

That explanation only works for male to female rape. A male who is incapacitated cannot “get it up” and therefore cannot be raped.

Arousal in that sense is more about nerve simulation than anything else. I don’t need to explain how said simulation could be done, but it is possible for a man to be raped this way.

 

[Achilles6129]

So the ends justify the means, in other words?

No, I never said that Lot’s daughters were righteous. You need to distinguish between things in Scripture that are said/done by God and things in Scripture that are not. There is much in the Bible (particularly in the OT) that is not said/done by God and so can’t be used in any way to define the nature and character of God.

 

[TimothyH]

Lot knew they would not take his daughters. In offering them his daughters he was condemning their behavior.

Lot had made a home in Sodom. Lot knew his neighbors well. He knew they would not take the women because they were all raging homosexuals.

Behold, I have two daughters who have not known man; let me bring them out to you, and do to them as you please; only do nothing to these men, for they have come under the shelter of my roof." But they said, “Stand back!” And they said, "This fellow came to sojourn, and he would play the judge! Now we will deal worse with you than with them." Then they pressed hard against the man Lot, and drew near to break the door. (Genesis 19:8-9)

The homosexuals saw the offer of women instead of men as a judgement on their behavior. The homosexuals thought that their behavior was acceptable but the offer of women was Lots way of telling them that homosexuality was wicked, an abomination. The homosexuals were so offended at being judged that that they tried to rape Lot for it.

Lot effectively said, “Don’t have sex with men. Have sex with women instead.” The Homosexuals effectively replied, “Who are you to judge us. We will have sex with you too!” And God destroyed the place.

 

[Thorns]

No, I never said that Lot’s daughters were righteous. You need to distinguish between things in Scripture that are said/done by God and things in Scripture that are not. There is much in the Bible (particularly in the OT) that is not said/done by God and so can’t be used in any way to define the nature and character of God.

The reason Lot and his family were spared was because they were seen as righteous in the eyes of God.

Yet, having drunken sex with one’s own daughters seems furthest from righteousness. What to make of it?

 

[Gorgias]

The reason Lot and his family were spared was because they were seen as righteous in the eyes of God.

Actually, that’s not what the Bible says. It says that it was due to Abraham’s righteousness: “when God destroyed the cities of the Plain, he remembered Abraham and sent Lot away from the upheaval that occurred when God overthrew the cities where Lot had been living” (Gen 9:29).

Yet, having drunken sex with one’s own daughters seems furthest from righteousness. What to make of it?

What to make of it? There’s a difference between ‘righteousness’ and ‘sinfulness’. By baptism, we are justified and made right in God’s eyes; yet, we are still sinners and can fall into sin. That sin doesn’t undo our justification, but it might prevent our salvation.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I once read the commentary that Lot knew the mob outside his home were homosexuals. He offered his daughters knowing full well his daughters would be rejected. It was also to express the importance of Lot’s guests not to be harmed that he would offer his daughters in their place.

That makes a lot of sense.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I found this explanation rather nice:

One of the “evidences” that the Bible is really from God and not man is that men would not likely include such disgusting stories about their heroes. This is not the only one. Abraham lied about his wife by saying she was his sister – to save his own life. David committed adultery with Bathsheba and had her husband killed to cover it up when Bathsheba was pregnant. God tells the truth about us, and the truth is not always pretty. The full story of my life is not pretty – and I suspect that if the full tale of your life were told, there would be some parts of it that you would not want anyone else to know, lest you be shamed.    One of the reasons for this is so that we can see how desperately all of us need a Savior, without whom none of us can find fellowship with our Creator.

Our choices and actions have consequences. Lot chose to pitch his tent toward Sodom. He took his family into that wicked city. The consequence was that his wife came to love the city and looked back. His daughters were tainted, as one writer said,” with “the scent of the city.” While God’s messengers brought them out of the city, they did not get the city out of Lot’s daughters. We need to be careful about choices we make that may affect our families in ways we have difficulty countering.

We do not know what finally happened to Lot and his unnamed daughters. Their sons became the progenitors of two nations, both of which were at times enemies of God’s chosen people. What will be their fate in eternity? We just do not know.

from:committedtotruth.wordpress.com/2009/10/26/question-re-lot-his-daughters-incest/

 

[Peter_Plato]

The reason Lot and his family were spared was because they were seen as righteous in the eyes of God.

Yet, having drunken sex with one’s own daughters seems furthest from righteousness. What to make of it?

David was chosen as king of Israel because of his righteousness, yet look at what he got himself into. Solomon was the wisest of all men, granted wisdom as a divine gift, yet he ended up bringing the Kingdom of Israel to ruin by turning to idolatry and polygamy.

Perhaps there is something to the idea of free will. We are not predetermined to act in a particular way but, rather, God, gives us the dignity of choosing what we become and what we do.

 

[juliamajor]

The story of Lot’s daughters and Lot is a put-down allegory about the wickedness of Ammon and Moab.
Ammonites and Moabites are depraved and wicked because their very conception was depraved and wicked. They are long time enemies of the Israelites , so the very roots of their existence was a blot against nature and God.

 

[GarretKadeDupre]

What I am about to say isn’t an expert opinion at all and is purely my own thoughts, not specific beliefs, but to me it is obvious that Lot offers his daughters to sodomites who the Scripture depicts as lusting for his guests, who are male. This is perversion. It is abominable. It is unthinkable. Lot has daughters. They are virgins. He offers them to homosexuals knowing they will decline because they want the men in the house, not the gals. The horrendous evil they are demanding from him is a reflection of his beliefs. Lot knew God and that God didn’t approve of the sins these neighbors of Lots were asking him to participate in by consent to the ill done. Lot knew in his heart they were evil. He could’ve said “Sure, take 'em” and closed the door, but it would’ve been the same thing as turning his back on his belief in God. If he had acted against the guests, it would have said he only gives lip service to what he believes because when push came to shove, he closed the door to acting as if he believed. He couldn’t possibly do this. He offered his daughters knowing the offer would be turned down. He gambled and BTW, won. He and his daughters left that place of sin behind along with his wife who didn’t fare so well in the end of the tale.

Oh well. I’ve said too much again and these are just my opinions and shouldn’t be mistaken for true scholarship as I’m no expert on anything except doughnuts and coffee.

Glenda

That’s what I think too.

 

[bmonk]

Besides the perversion of Sodom, and the later questions about Lot getting drunk at the hand of his daughters so they can get children by him, let’s return to the original issue:

Why did Lot offer the mob his daughters?

Well, Lot was host of two guests–and in that culture, that established obligations that came before many other moral claims.

One obligation was to keep the guest safe while he was in your home. In this case, the mob was (wrongly) demanding the right to rape the two guests, but he refuses them, and offers his daughters. This is his way to do a lesser sin (by accepting injury to his own family and its members) rather than a greater (by allowing guests to be assaulted).

In the event, Lot did press the two men to accept his hospitality–a virtue that was misguided–and he and his family were saved by their intervention, both at the door of his home, and the next morning when they flee the city before its destruction.

 

[Jerurussia]

The law regarding rape in the ancient world as mirrored in the Code of Hammurabi was that if a woman was raped she was married. Consummation in that instance equaled marriage. Hammurabi decrees that the wronged woman could chose any man she pleased to marry. So while not an ideal situation, the rape of Lot’s daughter would have per Jewish law meant she would be married. As noted, the offering of hospitality meant going to any extreme to protect one’s guests, and that would include trying to ameliorate mob violence with one’s own family member; and as noted, Lot’s daughters did indeed sexually violate their father while drunk as thinking they were the last people on Earth. May God deliver us from all impurity and violence.

 

[Dave_Noonan]

In the part of the bible describing the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, God sent angels to look in the city for five good people (God told Abraham he would spare the two sinful cities IF he could find at least five good people there). While the three angels were there, they stayed with Lot. An angry mob gathered outside Lot’s house, and demanded that he hand the angels over.

Lot refused, and instead offered his virgin daughters.

May someone please explain why?

If you read Judges 19, it’s clear that raping mobs don’t care anything about the gender of the people they are raping. They just want to rape so the daughters were offered as an alternative.

In reading some of these posts, it’s hard to believe that people in the 21st century want to justify Lot’s behavior as anything other than grossly immoral and cowardly. It’s immoral now; it was immoral then. He gets his comuppance later in chapter 19.

 

[Peter_Plato]

If you read Judges 19, it’s clear that raping mobs don’t care anything about the gender of the people they are raping. They just want to rape so the daughters were offered as an alternative.

In reading some of these posts, it’s hard to believe that people in the 21st century want to justify Lot’s behavior as anything other than grossly immoral and cowardly. It’s immoral now; it was immoral then. He gets his comuppance later in chapter 19.

If it was that grossly immoral and cowardly, one would assume he would have perished as part of the judgement befalling Sodom and Gomorrah, given that he would, by your definition, not be one of the “just men” found fit to avoid the judgement, and rightly would have deserved it. Why was he spared, then?