Why did Satan fall?

[Kitty_Chan]

"Satan was the most beautiful creature in Heaven. "

well maybe the name should be lucifier? is that what your after?

scripture I know is

*Isa 14:12 ¶ How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!

Eze 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. *

Ezekiel is also talking about a king, but since he was such a bad king I wonder who was his inspiration? There are a lot of dont know what the word is but double meanings, parables etc in the scriptures. Is this part of what your having trouble with??

Im starting to guess catholics dont believe devil, satan, lucifier, lier, creep, pick one, was not a beautiful angel ???

Unless your speaking about his motivation thats covered in the last part of her “story”. it was humans, or Mary, or pride is one of these wrong as has been suggested in the thread??

remaining curious as to where this is going . . . . .

 

[Kitty_Chan]

also from newadvent.org/cathen/09410a.htm

The Syriac version and the version of Aquila derive the Hebrew noun helel from the verb yalal, “to lament”; St. Jerome agrees with them (In Isaiah 1:14),

and makes Lucifer the name of the principal fallen angel who must lament the loss of his original glory bright as the morning star.

In Christian tradition this meaning of Lucifer has prevailed; the Fathers maintain that Lucifer is not the proper name of the devil, but denotes only the state from which he has fallen (Petavius, De Angelis, III, iii, 4).

Is this it? not proper name?? In this he seems glory bright as the morning star, cant be that ugly??

completely

 

[TOP]

From ‘Devil’ entry in Catholic Encyclopaedia:

Why, then, did the Devil/Satan/Lucifer fall? They were created good and lived in the presence of God: what on earth (or, indeed, in heaven? ) made them decide to rebel?

Seconds after a conversion experience I had in 2005, I was hit by the ugliness of sin and how it was a pollution on the earth. The sin I first saw was doubt. I think doubt in the Lord’s power started it all. Tim

 

[JoeyWarren]

Amongst Theologians Ezekial 28 is controversial. Valke2 answered this question on another thread a few months ago when I invoked it. Israel does not believe it that it is talking about Satan at all. It is merely speculation. Even if Ezek 28 is referring to Satan, it does not support that he was the MOST BEAUTIFUL. It just says that he held a beatiful visage.

Otherwise speaking directly from the Bible? What else can you provide? Other than *Isa 14:12 ¶ How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! ? * Nothing here indicates why he fell. Nothing here indicates if he was beautiful.

I will play devil’s advocate for a moment and take the Protestant position. Okay? (Some will get mad at the above statement, I don’t apologize for it since it is IMHO).

If it can’t be proven from Scripture alone, it means nothing. Jerome is a pagan Roman Catholic so what he believe is irrelavant.

Even the idea that their are nine rankings of Angelic beings is very bit false based on the Bible Alone mentality.

 

[JoeyWarren]

Brendan said in another thread: For the angels, that time came at moment of creation.

Can this be proven from Scripture?

Each angel was given (some) knowledge of God’s Plan, and could choose for themselves (not as a race), but the choice was irrevocable.

Can this be proven from Scripture?

Again I am playing the Devil’s advocate.

 

[LJN21]

"Satan was the most beautiful creature in Heaven. "

well maybe the name should be lucifier? is that what your after?

scripture I know is

*Isa 14:12 ¶ How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!

Eze 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. *

Ezekiel is also talking about a king, but since he was such a bad king I wonder who was his inspiration? There are a lot of dont know what the word is but double meanings, parables etc in the scriptures. Is this part of what your having trouble with??

Im starting to guess catholics dont believe devil, satan, lucifier, lier, creep, pick one, was not a beautiful angel ???

I don’t think anyone said that. I’m really not sure what you seem to have a problem with. The fall of Satan as far as I know is fact. How/why is not. There are many ways people say it happened but know one knows for sure.

Unless your speaking about his motivation thats covered in the last part of her “story”. it was humans, or Mary, or pride is one of these wrong as has been suggested in the thread??

remaining curious as to where this is going . . . . .

The title of the thread is “Why did Satan fall” that sounds like a question about the motivation to me.

 

[Tomster]

From ‘Devil’ entry in Catholic Encyclopaedia:

Why, then, did the Devil/Satan/Lucifer fall? They were created good and lived in the presence of God: what on earth (or, indeed, in heaven? ) made them decide to rebel?

“In this way did the angel sin, because he turned his free will to his own good without reference to the (higher) rule of the divine Will” - St. Thomas Aquinas (S. Theol., I, q. lxiii, art. 3)

The great theologian thinks that such a sin is compatible with complete knowledge of means and end, principles and results, and that such a sin can be found in a being devoid at his creation of all perverse inclination and of all passion. It is esssentially a free election of a definite state, and it is an irrevocable election. All other perversities which are attributed to Satan come from this free election, for it is not a passive state of personal excellency which Satan has chosen, it is of necessity an active opposition to the higher order.

Interestingly enough, it is obviously a thing self evident in theology that when once a created spirit has been admitted to the clear Vision of God all falling away becomes impossible. The spirits that lapsed had never attained to that Beatific Vision.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

I don’t think anyone said that. I’m really not sure what you seem to have a problem with. The fall of Satan as far as I know is fact. How/why is not. There are many ways people say it happened but know one knows for sure.

The title of the thread is “Why did Satan fall” that sounds like a question about the motivation to me.

Thanks for answering but in those threads Im specifically asking Joey re his posts. Not so much to the general question, Joey is upset mad annoyed whatever one wants to call it with his step moms description. Im haveing a hard time with what is the problem in it, it seems fine but there must be some details left out or something, I cant figure on.

As for motivation there was some of it in the step mom story and I raised some questions too, Im just confused by Joeys response thats all.

I agreeded just in the last posts like you said that there are several ways or reasons he fell, and that he did like you said is a fact but these are not my confusion.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

Amongst Theologians Ezekial 28 is controversial. Valke2 answered this question on another thread a few months ago when I invoked it. Israel does not believe it that it is talking about Satan at all. It is merely speculation. Even if Ezek 28 is referring to Satan, it does not support that he was the MOST BEAUTIFUL. It just says that he held a beatiful visage.

I did give a answer on 21 I think several back. including comment on the fall.

Whos Jerome? was he quoted somewhere, I missed it. Keeping in mind I was specifically asking you about the step moms story originally.

If you want to prove from scripture alone then dont ask me I guess, Ive not heard of that or once saved until I came here, so dont subscribe to either just so you know. (I guess Im influenced by some church that sponsors this site )

9 rankings, Ive seen stuff like that. To me suffice to say God has a government of some organization. how exactly it works I will find out when I get there, If it was important for us to know EXACTLY how it works now, he would have outlined it more. So I dont worry about those things, just the way I take it, I file that stuff under interesting to discuss but not worthy of arguement.

Joey straight up for whatever reason I get the feeling that you dont believe satan fell or was beautiful or was lucifier or etc. It seems from your posts you dont believe it and that was concerning to me, thats all its simple as that. As the step moms “story” doesnt SEEM out to lunch as it were, So Im getting confused on trying to figure your view more than anything. Im sorry if Im being thick I dont mean to. Im just missing something somehow and Im sorry.

 

[Sixtus]

Because he chose to