Why did St. Pius V banish the Jews from the Papal States?

[meltzerboy]

ChosenPeople, let it go. You have to will to get the past out.

My former Dominican pastor thinks people are extreme when they are living out abuses that happened hundreds of years ago.

Yes, Kathleen, as the great philosopher Kenny Rogers says: “You gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away and know when to run.”

This is an interesting thread, although a little ugly at times.

 

[KathleenGee]

Yes, painful to read…

If we deny Catholics or the institutional Church did not do anything wrong…this denial becomes abuse all over again…

I wonder how many in Church at that time were charitable to the Jewish people as well…

God wants us to forgive anything and everything because He also wants our happiness…and to see each other as brethren although we may have different beliefs…

 

[highcalling]

Yes, painful to read…

If we deny Catholics or the institutional Church did not do anything wrong…this denial becomes abuse all over again…

I wonder how many in Church at that time were charitable to the Jewish people as well…

God wants us to forgive anything and everything because He also wants our happiness…and to see each other as brethren although we may have different beliefs…

Why in the world would you claim that Pope St. Pius V did something wrong by this? No man on earth can judge the pope. Besides, the statement: “The Jewish people fell from the heights because of their faithlessness and condemned their Redeemer to a shameful death.” enjoys a much higher level of doctrinal authority than the current pope’s non-magisterial “Jesus of Nazareth.” I’ll go with the sainted pope’s higher authoritative statement any day. As for those who accuse the Vicar of Christ of antisemitism let them be careful how they speak lest they anger the Son of God.

 

[JNdoum]

I wanted to say that, actually, it was Paul IV who made that decree
newadvent.org/cathen/14761a.htm
Also, I wanted to say that chosen people’s allegations were unkind and hurtful. I am a devout Catholic, and never have I had any negative feelings toward the Jewish people, even as a Protestant Christian before my conversion, and heck, even as an atheist directly before my conversion. Hatred of Jews is not and never has been a Catholic tradition. We have often condemned anti-semitism because it is a sin against charity, and we maintain that the Jewish people remain God’s chosen people with an intristic part in salvation. Perhaps one of the reason for separations of Jews and Christians may have been for the Jewish people’s sakes. From what little I know of Jewish culture, they believe us Christians to be Gentiles and little better than pagans, therefore traditional Jewish people may have considered us ritually unclean and not worthy to be associated with. I am honestly not sure of the full ramifications, but the point is that calling all Catholics Jew-haters is about as fair as calling all white people Black-haters. I myself am an African-American (more litterally, because my family emigrated here from Cameroon in my parent’s generation) and feel that this would be a riddiculous sentiment. Please, look with charity on other groups, especially if you expect them to look with charity upon you.

 

[CopticChristian]

Wel first, as I have stated on another thread it took some three hundred years and massive mutual massacres and infighting between Christian groups for the Jesus figure to be designated a god:
"The ultimate defining act of Christianity is the human blood sacrifice of the Jesus god figure for the salvation of humanity. Putting aside how such a concept is a total rejection of the concept and definition of the Jewish God, we may ask ourselves how it comes about that the Jesus figure came to be recognized as a god in Christianity. As opposed to the Jewish God, it appears that Jesus as a god was anything but obvious. Instead of an entire nation, we have twelve disciples. However, even the name of these 12 disciples are not agreed upon in the Christian scriptures. Even the genealogy of the Jesus figure is not agreed upon. If we search the Christian scriptures, we discover that on the one hand Jesus was born no later then 4 b.c.e. (the death of Herod) and on the other hand he was born 10 years later in 6 c.e (the Roman census).

Of the 41 historians of the first and second centuries of the common era who wrote about Judea and Samaria and whose works survive, none apparently knew or realized that a god had come to earth in human form. None wrote about the apostles or disciples or about all the occurrences and miracles of the Jesus figure. Without any reliable sources for the Jesus figure outside of the Christian scriptures themselves, Christians have turned to a later forgery of certain passages of Josephus and even to trying to interpret Talmudic passages as somehow supporting the historic Jesus figure.

The original Christians, the Ebionites, made up of members of Jesus’ family and disciples, also did not know or acknowledge that Jesus was a god. Neither did the Arian Christians. In fact, it is only when the Roman (Hellenistic) Christians have managed to massacre sufficient numbers of Arian Christians that in 325 c.e. the Jesus figure is finally recognized as a god in Christianity. It is only in 389 c.e. that the “holy ghost” is added and recognized to form the concept of the Christian Trinity.

Secondly, God tells the Jewish people that they will be tested from time to time to abandon their eternal covenant and Torah and to follow those who claim they are a god come to down to earth in human form etc. The Jesus figure was hardly the first nor was he the last (see for instance the story of Shabtai Zvi)

" Devarim - Deuteronomy - Chapter 13

Chapter 13

1. Everything I command you that you shall be careful to do it. You shall neither add to it, nor subtract from it. א. אֵת כָּל הַדָּבָר אֲשֶׁר אָנֹכִי מְצַוֶּה אֶתְכֶם אֹתוֹ תִשְׁמְרוּ לַעֲשׂוֹת לֹא תֹסֵף עָלָיו וְלֹא תִגְרַע מִמֶּנּוּ:
2. If there will arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of a dream, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, ב. כִּי יָקוּם בְּקִרְבְּךָ נָבִיא אוֹ חֹלֵם חֲלוֹם וְנָתַן אֵלֶיךָ אוֹת אוֹ מוֹפֵת:
3. and the sign or the wonder of which he spoke to you happens, [and he] says, “Let us go after other gods which you have not known, and let us worship them,” ג. וּבָא הָאוֹת וְהַמּוֹפֵת אֲשֶׁר דִּבֶּר אֵלֶיךָ לֵאמֹר נֵלְכָה אַחֲרֵי אֱ־לֹהִים אֲחֵרִים אֲשֶׁר לֹא יְדַעְתָּם וְנָעָבְדֵם:
4. you shall not heed the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of a dream; for the Lord, your God, is testing you, to know whether you really love the Lord, your God, with all your heart and with all your soul. ד. לֹא תִשְׁמַע אֶל דִּבְרֵי הַנָּבִיא הַהוּא אוֹ אֶל חוֹלֵם הַחֲלוֹם הַהוּא כִּי מְנַסֶּה יְ־הֹוָ־ה אֱלֹהֵיכֶם אֶתְכֶם לָדַעַת הֲיִשְׁכֶם אֹהֲבִים אֶת יְ־הֹוָ־ה אֱלֹהֵיכֶם בְּכָל לְבַבְכֶם וּבְכָל נַפְשְׁכֶם:
5. You shall follow the Lord, your God, fear Him, keep His commandments, heed His voice, worship Him, and cleave to Him. ה. אַחֲרֵי יְ־הֹוָ־ה אֱלֹהֵיכֶם תֵּלֵכוּ וְאֹתוֹ תִירָאוּ וְאֶת מִצְוֹתָיו תִּשְׁמֹרוּ וּבְקֹלוֹ תִשְׁמָעוּ וְאֹתוֹ תַעֲבֹדוּ וּבוֹ תִדְבָּקוּן:
   QUOTE]

Wow, fair to say you must be a Jew.

Acts of the Apostles records Gamileal saying this.

33But when they heard this, they were cut to the quick and intended to kill them. 34But a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the Law, respected by all the people, stood up in the Council and gave orders to put the men outside for a short time. 35And he said to them, “Men of Israel, take care what you propose to do with these men. 36“For some time ago Theudas rose up, claiming to be somebody, and a group of about four hundred men joined up with him. But he was killed, and all who followed him were dispersed and came to nothing. 37“After this man, Judas of Galilee rose up in the days of the census and drew away some people after him; he too perished, and all those who followed him were scattered. 38“So in the present case, I say to you, stay away from these men and let them alone, for if this plan or action is of men, it will be overthrown; 39but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them; or else you may even be found fighting against God.”

 

[Wisely]

Why in the world would you claim that Pope St. Pius V did something wrong by this? No man on earth can judge the pope. Besides, the statement: “The Jewish people fell from the heights because of their faithlessness and condemned their Redeemer to a shameful death.” enjoys a much higher level of doctrinal authority than the current pope’s non-magisterial “Jesus of Nazareth.” I’ll go with the sainted pope’s higher authoritative statement any day. As for those who accuse the Vicar of Christ of antisemitism let them be careful how they speak lest they anger the Son of God.

Wow, Ultramontanism in steroids

1. The Pope can err.
2. The Council of Constance judged the Pope. Plus Pope Honorius was declared heretic.
3. That book only expresses Pope Benedict’s opinion, he might be wrong.
4. The anger of the Son of God? Jesus is not Zeus.

 

[chosen_people]

Why in the world would you claim that Pope St. Pius V did something wrong by this? No man on earth can judge the pope. Besides, the statement: “The Jewish people fell from the heights because of their faithlessness and condemned their Redeemer to a shameful death.” enjoys a much higher level of doctrinal authority than the current pope’s non-magisterial “Jesus of Nazareth.” I’ll go with the sainted pope’s higher authoritative statement any day. As for those who accuse the Vicar of Christ of antisemitism let them be careful how they speak lest they anger the Son of God.

Okay, so let’s go on the assumption that stealing the Jews land and property and locking up the Jews in an overcrowded, filthy and unhealthy area, and making them live in abject poverty as rag pickers is a good and moral thing done by a good and moral person. Let’s presume that these were not anti-Semitic acts but justifiable, whether because the Jews had it coming to them or for some other valid reason. If that’s the case, the really troubling thing is what changed so that it is now no longer necessary for the Jews to be locked up in ghettos? If it is still necessary, is society in danger because Jews are walking around freely at night, without wearing those special badges identifying them as Jews? Isn’t there a real danger that the Jews will acquire all the power and all the money and control all the media or even design and develop most of the stuff on your computer, and cell phone, make sure your children don"t get polio and start to win Nobel prizes at 115 their rate in the population? Are Christians no longer to be protected from Jews?

 

[KathleenGee]

The irony is that Christ was Jewish and fulfilled the Covenant that was sealed by blood…Moses threw blood from the sacrificial lambs on the altar and then on the Jewish people and they affirmed this covenant.

At the Last Supper, there was no lamb to eat…and the first members of the Christian church were all Jewish.

The Catholic/Orthodox universal Church is in its essence Jewish…but fulfilled Jew in Christ. And likewise, the Hebrew Catholics experience more completion as Catholic Jews…the New Israel not just being ancient inhabitants of Israel, but all those who come to new life in Christ, the new kingdom not of this earth but mystical…