Why did the lord appear to Mary Magdalene first?

[AugustTherese]

Most Jews I know speak politely with gentiles. I don’t think Jesus was rude.

Fine, but don’t say He only wanted to speak with Jews.

 

[ConstantLearner]

@Hodos Have you read Richard Carrier? You probably wouldn’t agree with what he says, but he does provide food for thought.

 

[ConstantLearner]

Fine, but don’t say He only wanted to speak with Jews.

I’ll say it again: He only wanted to bring his message to Jews. Peter, too.

In Romans 9:5 Paul brings his list of privileges to a climax with these words: “From [the Jews] is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.” The Messiah, Jesus, was a Jew, a Son of David. Romans 1:3 And he focused his earthly ministry on the Jews. They had a priority in his work. In Matthew 10:5–6 Jesus said to the twelve apostles as he sent them out during his life, “Do not go in the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans; but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” And in Matthew 15:24, Jesus said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” So Jesus was focused on the Jews.

 

[Gab123]

Most Jews I know have great respect for Jesus.

Not among Orthodox Jews though; I’m not talking about secular/atheist/agnostic Jews. All one needs to do is listen to the many testimonies of orthodox Jewish converts to Christ and how they were raised to see Jesus as a charlatan. The problem is that believing Jews have been lied to about Jesus, starting with the post-resurrection Jewish authorities who rejected Christ. Here is an interesting man on the streets in Israel video:

 

[Gab123]

I’ll say it again: He only wanted to bring his message to Jews. Peter, too.

Jesus said:

“I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.” John 10:16

 

[Hodos]

Have you read Richard Carrier?

Can’t say that I have. I do not read a lot of commentaries on the Bible, particularly those that do not have their origin from the community of faith. They tend to miss the point of the gospel narratives entirely. It’s not their book after all.

 

[AugustTherese]

I’ll say it again: He only wanted to bring his message to Jews

The entire prophecy of the Old Testament was for the Messiah to gather the lost sheep of Israel along with all nations. Jesus spoke with many Gentiles such as the Samaritan woman at the well, the centurion, and the Canaanite woman (‘dog’); all non-Jews.

 

[Gab123]

I’ll say it again: He only wanted to bring his message to Jews. Peter, too.

Jesus commanded His apostles:

“Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.” Mark 16:15

“you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. And you will be my witnesses, telling people about me everywhere–in Jerusalem, throughout Judea, in Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” Acts 1:8

 

[ConstantLearner]

In Romans 9:5 Paul brings his list of privileges to a climax with these words: “From [the Jews] is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.” The Messiah, Jesus, was a Jew, a Son of David. Romans 1:3 And he focused his earthly ministry on the Jews. They had a priority in his work. In Matthew 10:5–6 Jesus said to the twelve apostles as he sent them out during his life, “Do not go in the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans; but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” And in Matthew 15:24, Jesus said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” So Jesus was focused on the Jews.

Then how do you explain all this:

In Romans 9:5 Paul brings his list of privileges to a climax with these words: “From [the Jews] is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.” The Messiah, Jesus, was a Jew, a Son of David. Romans 1:3 And he focused his earthly ministry on the Jews. They had a priority in his work. In Matthew 10:5–6 Jesus said to the twelve apostles as he sent them out during his life, “Do not go in the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans; but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” And in Matthew 15:24, Jesus said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” So Jesus was focused on the Jews.

 

[Dovekin]

It’s very unlikely his material influenced the others. There is absolutely no evidence of this.

Well, there is this passage from 1Cor 15 that parallels the Mary Magdalene role in the gospel of Mark…

The passage in question is actually pre-pauline, something St Paul is quoting as having been taught to him. Since 1 Cor is early Paul, this makes the passage about 20 years earlier than Mark, plenty of time for it to move from St Paul’s teachers to St Mark wherever he was.

Mark wrote during the destruction of Israel, or very soon before.

Which is why the events of that time, like Vespasian’s march through Galilee and his becoming Emperor, are featured prominently in my response.

I do not really see the relevance of contrasting themes of St Paul and St Mark; they both talk about the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus in the passages I cited.

Seriously, do you really think St Mark and his community did not know about this early creed?

 

[Gab123]

And he focused his earthly ministry on the Jews. They had a priority in his work.

Well obviously; He was the promised Messiah of the Jews. But notice how after the resurrection Jesus commanded.

“As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.”

One has to understand that the “Chose people” were chosen to prepare the coming of the messiah into the world. Jesus is the savior of the world, not just a specific race of people.

 

[Hodos]

Then how do you explain all this:

In Romans 9:5 Paul brings his list of privileges to a climax with these words: “From [the Jews] is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.” The Messiah, Jesus, was a Jew, a Son of David. Romans 1:3 And he focused his earthly ministry on the Jews. They had a priority in his work. In Matthew 10:5–6 Jesus said to the twelve apostles as he sent them out during his life, “Do not go in the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans; but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” And in Matthew 15:24, Jesus said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” So Jesus was focused on the Jews.

I think the issue here is that you are not allowing all of scripture to speak. You are correct that the majority of his ministry was focused on the Jews, and that the proclamation came first to the Jew (who had the law and the prophets which testify to Christ). In instances Jesus did, as you said, tell the disciples to go only to the Jews (when he sends out the 76). Again, we agree that proclamation to the Jews held primacy during his ministry before the resurrection. However, as stated above, Jesus also specifically broke off and preached in Tyre and Sidon (the old Phoenician cities), Sychar (a Samaritan village), the Decapolis (a Gentile league of towns), Gadara or Gamala, etc. It also ignores the Great Commission: “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.” Luke also has a similar although abbreviated version of the Great Commission in Acts.

And lastly, quoting Romans to say that Christ’s mission was only to the Jews is problematic, since the book of Romans is written to a mixed Jew and Gentile audience demonstrating that both peoples are reconciled through Christ through grace which we receive by faith.

I would encourage you in your studies of our scriptures to read them first, whenever possible in one sitting before breaking them down. This allows all of the book to speak, rather than taking cues from singular passages here and there.

 

[PetraG]

No, it doesn’t. Most Jews I know have great respect for Jesus. We just do not see him as the messiah. He did not fulfill the messianic prophecies nor did he possess the personality of the messiah as described in the Hebrew Bible.

From C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity
Then comes the real shock. Among these Jews there suddenly turns up a man who goes about talking
as if He was God. He claims to forgive sins. He says He has always existed. He says He is coming to
judge the world at the end of time. Now let us get this clear. Among Pantheists, like the Indians,
anyone might say that he was a part of God, or one with God: there would be nothing very odd about
it. But this man, since He was a Jew, could not mean that kind of God. God, in their language, meant
the Being outside the world Who had made it and was infinitely different from anything else. And
when you have grasped that, you will see that what this man said was, quite simply, the most shocking
thing that has ever been uttered by human lips.
One part of the claim tends to slip past us unnoticed because we have heard it so often that we no
longer see what it amounts to. I mean the claim to forgive sins: any sins. Now unless the speaker is
God, this is really so preposterous as to be comic. We can all understand how a man forgives offences
against himself. You tread on my toe and I forgive you, you steal my money and I forgive you. But
what should we make of a man, himself unrobbed and untrodden on, who announced that he forgave
you for treading on other men’s toes and stealing other men’s money? Asinine fatuity is the kindest
description we should give of his conduct. Yet this is what Jesus did.
He told people that their sins were forgiven, and never waited to consult all the other people whom
their sins had undoubtedly injured. He unhesitatingly behaved as if He was the party chiefly
concerned, the person chiefly offended in all offences. This makes sense only if He really was the
God whose laws are broken and whose love is wounded in every sin. In the mouth of any speaker who
is not God, these words would imply what I can only regard as a silliness and conceit unrivalled by
any other character in history.
Yet (and this is the strange, significant thing) even His enemies, when they read the Gospels, do not
usually get the impression of silliness and conceit. Still less do unprejudiced readers. Christ says that
He is “humble and meek” and we believe Him; not noticing that, if He were merely a man, humility
and meekness are the very last characteristics we could attribute to some of His sayings.
(cont…)

 

[PetraG]

…see later post

 

[Hodos]

I think you were responding to the wrong post. If you want ConstantLearner, to read your quote you may need to tag him.

 

[PetraG]

I don’t know how that happened, since I replied to the same first post of his twice?

 

[PetraG]

No, it doesn’t. Most Jews I know have great respect for Jesus. We just do not see him as the messiah. He did not fulfill the messianic prophecies nor did he possess the personality of the messiah as described in the Hebrew Bible.

CONT…

I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him:
“I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept His claim to be God.” That is the
one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would
not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic—on a level with the man who says he is a
poached egg—or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man
was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool,
you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God.
But let us not come with any patronising nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not
left that open to us. He did not intend to.
–C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity

 

[Hodos]

No worries. Sorry if I confused it by quoting him.

 

[PetraG]

Most Jews I know speak politely with gentiles. I don’t think Jesus was rude.

Most Jews you know do not live in 1st century Roman-occupied Palestine, either.

 

[PetraG]

To you. I am a Jew. Jesus was a Jew, who only wanted to speak with Jews. He celebrated Jewish holidays. Even Peter only wanted to speak with Jews. That was the source of his friction with Paul.

You really need to read Acts 10: http://www.usccb.org/bible/acts/10
The conversion of Paul is in Acts 9; you can read in Acts 11 that it was Peter who had to explain to the Jewish converts why he, Peter, was the first to baptize Gentiles. This was before St. Paul was sent out at all.

The source of friction with Paul was that Peter was behaving hypocritically by acting one way with Gentiles and in another when Jewish converts were around.

And when Cephas [Peter] came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face because he clearly was wrong. For, until some people came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to draw back and separated himself, because he was afraid of the circumcised. And the rest of the Jews [also] acted hypocritically along with him, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy. But when I saw that they were not on the right road in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of all, “If you, though a Jew, are living like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?”
Gal. 2:11-14