Why did The Orthodox Church "change" or "innovate" The Eucharist?

[2ndGen]

2ndGen;3299721:

The Western portion of the Catholic Church departed from the orthodox catholic faith mentioned by those fathers.

If that were true, why would the original Church change their name from The Catholic Church to The Eastern Othrodox Church then and allow the Church that left it to take the original Church’s name with it?

To use those quotes as if they refer to the Roman Catholic Church as it is today doesn’t mean very much.

We’re not talking about any “Roman Catholic Church”. We’re talking about The Catholic Church. There’s no such thing as “The Roman Catholic Church”…at least, nobody’s proven it to me yet.

Do you have such proof that a religious institution called “The Roman Catholic Church” exists?

Annnddd…Why did The Eastern Orthodox Church change and innovate the Holy Sacrament of The Eucharist to use leavened bread as opposed to what Jesus used which was unleavened bread?

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

… I don’t see that these passages leave any room for doubt that (1) the Last Supper was the Passover meal, and (2) that it was therefore necessarily unleavened bread they ate, in accordance with Mosaic Law …

Is this right? Are there any Jewish people here who can help me learn about these rituals?

Jesus was crucified the day before Passover. I guess that implies that He was crucified the day before the Passover meal.

I’m not quite sure if the Last Supper co-incided with the Passover meal; Or whether it co-incided with the Prepartory meal - which was the meal to remove leaven from the location. Any Jewish people here who can help me learn more about Passover meals and Prepartory meals? Valke2 - where are you?

Sorry, 2ndGen - my catholic brother; I don’t mean to steal your thunder.

 

[Volodymyr]

Nicholas82 has taught us perhaps little known fact to Catolics that Christian church original is using artos - or living leavened bread. Are mosaiki in Ravenna and also Roma of Western priests before 9th century celebrating Liturgija with leavened bread. Now we know such Catolic priests also acknowledge this fact. Priests without wives cannot make such thing as leavened bread - men do not do such job. Therefore, in 9th century when Latin church demands unmarried priests - was easier to make such unleavened thin (and somewhat lifeless) bread. Even if Christ used unleavened bread - although original Greek bible says he used artos - or leavened bread - Church is not bound by old law to Jewish people. Early Christians preferring living bread like a body.

Also, there is a Roman Catolic church, even in new York City Gen2 must live in Roman Catolic archdiochese where OFFICIAL site is saying:
The Archdiocese

	Welcome to the web pages of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of New York. We are a large Archdiocese with a wide variety of people, cultures and ministries. These pages reflect the many ways in which we serve God through our service to his people.

Therefore, there is such an organization somewhere - right in such famous place as New York.

 

[2ndGen]

Is this right? Are there any Jewish people here who can help me learn about these rituals?

Jesus was crucified the day before Passover. I guess that implies that He was crucified the day before the Passover meal.

I’m not quite sure if the Last Supper co-incided with the Passover meal; Or whether it co-incided with the Prepartory meal - which was the meal to remove leaven from the location. Any Jewish people here who can help me learn more about Passover meals and Prepartory meals? Valke2 - where are you?

Sorry, 2ndGen - my catholic brother; I don’t mean to steal your thunder.

To the Jews, the day begins on the eve of the next day. For example, the Sabbath doesn’t begin on Saturday morning, but on Friday night at sundown.

Therefore, they were having the Passover Meal on the night before The Feast of The Unleavened Bread and The Passover Meal that took place the night before utilized unleavened bread.

 

[2ndGen]

Nicholas82 has taught us perhaps little known fact to Catolics that Christian church original is using artos - or living leavened bread.

 

[Champion_Havoc]

Wow…2ndGen sounds like he knows everything.
The-One-Who-Challenges-All

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

To the Jews, the day begins on the eve of the next day. For example, the Sabbath doesn’t begin on Saturday morning, but on Friday night at sundown.

Therefore, they were having the Passover Meal on the night before The Feast of The Unleavened Bread and The Passover Meal that took place the night before utilized unleavened bread.

Well, I don’t want to be rude, but I found a couple of Web sites that disagree:
users.aristotle.net/~bhuie/po-eat.htm
ad2004.com/prophecytruths/Articles/Yeshua/lastsupper.html

Any (name removed by moderator)ut from a Jewish expert here would be appreciated to help clarify things up a bit.

 

[Valke2]

Is this right? Are there any Jewish people here who can help me learn about these rituals?

Jesus was crucified the day before Passover. I guess that implies that He was crucified the day before the Passover meal.

I’m not quite sure if the Last Supper co-incided with the Passover meal; Or whether it co-incided with the Prepartory meal - which was the meal to remove leaven from the location. Any Jewish people here who can help me learn more about Passover meals and Prepartory meals? Valke2 - where are you?

Sorry, 2ndGen - my catholic brother; I don’t mean to steal your thunder.

There isn’t a prepartory meal, that I’m aware of. All leven must be removed from the premises prior to Passover, whether by being eaten or destroyed. I always thought the Last Supper was understood to have been a Pesach (Passover) meal.

I haven’t read this entire thread, but Leviticus states that no leaven shall be used in any sacrifice in the TEmple. I would assume that the Christian tradition of unleavened euchraist would be based on this law.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

There isn’t a prepartory meal, that I’m aware of. All leven must be removed from the premises prior to Passover, whether by being eaten or destroyed. I always thought the Last Supper was understood to have been a Pesach (Passover) meal…

Jesus was crucified on Nisan 14.

My understanding is that the Passover meal is on Nisan 15 (can you confirm this?). Therefore, Jesus was dead for the Passover meal.

 

[Valke2]

Jesus was crucified on Nisan 14.

My understanding is that the Passover meal is on Nisan 15 (can you confirm this?). Therefore, Jesus was dead for the Passover meal.

Yes. It is on the 15th of Nissan. Days are from sunset to sunset. But this would not mean that the meal was on the 14th, but rather on the evening of the 15. If Jesus was crucified on the 14th, then I can’t see how he participated in a Seder.

 

[2ndGen]

Wow…2ndGen sounds like he knows everything.
The-One-Who-Challenges-All

Nah…I’m just The Google King!

 

[Hesychios]

For thousands of years, Christians used unleavened bread to celebrate The Thanksgiving Meal.

Why did The Orthodox Church “change” The Eucharist to fit their unorthodox Christian beliefs?

It amazes me how you start a thread based upon a lie, then expect others to refute it. This is not the first time, I see.

Your stance makes a poor witness, and a probable embarassment to your Faithful brethren.

 

[2ndGen]

It amazes me how you start a thread based upon a lie, then expect others to refute it. This is not the first time, I see.

Your stance makes a poor witness, and a probable embarassment to your Faithful brethren.

Why did The Orthodox Church “change” or “innovate” The Eucharist?

 

[Hastrman]

2ndGen, Lord knows I got a lot of problems with the Orthodox. They’re arrogant, clannish, and frequently anti-intellectual, and they treat Eastern Uniates and Slavic Romans like pigs.

But the Roman church has hardly done any better, sometimes worse–and the Orthodox are orthodox. However much I might want to call them names, however much I might even want to beat them senseless–however much they might even deserve it!–they are real continuations of apostolic succession, and teachers of the true Catholic faith! You notice what language “Catholic” is? Ain’t Latin.

One thing that is simply beyond the pale, is to claim the Orthodox are teaching “unorthodox” doctrines–that is, to accuse them of heresy. It’s not true, and the Schism, the greatest scandal in the history of Christianity, has enough to maintain it without your help.

I apologize if any of our Orthodox brothers were offended by what I said above; but I have heard Orthodox give similar defense of Catholics, namely, whatever you think of them, they are still in apostolic succession and real Christians, so some things cannot be done.

It’s sort of along the lines of, “Yes he has all those flaws, but he is my brother, and you will not speak of him that way.”

 

[2ndGen]

2ndGen, Lord knows I got a lot of problems with the Orthodox. They’re arrogant, clannish, and frequently anti-intellectual, and they treat Eastern Uniates and Slavic Romans like pigs.

But the Roman church has hardly done any better, sometimes worse–and the Orthodox are orthodox. However much I might want to call them names, however much I might even want to beat them senseless–however much they might even deserve it!–they are real continuations of the succession of Peter, and teachers of the true Catholic faith! You notice what language “Catholic” is? Ain’t Latin.

One thing that is simply beyond the pale, is to claim the Orthodox are teaching “unorthodox” doctrines–that is, to accuse them of heresy. It’s not true, and the Schism, the greatest scandal in the history of Christianity, has enough to maintain it without your help.

Well, they “are” orthodox up until a point…that point being when they began to teach unorthodox teachings (that The Catholic Church is “not” the true Church, that there is “no” one leader for Christianity, etc…).

I love them and again, only the American Orthodox Christians have problems with me and Catholicism in general.

But hey, even a broken clock is wrong twice a day.

 

[Mickey]

They’re arrogant, clannish, and frequently anti-intellectual, and they treat Eastern Uniates and Slavic Romans like pigs.

That is quite the generalization.

 

[2ndGen]

2ndGen, Lord knows I got a lot of problems with the Orthodox. They’re arrogant, clannish, and frequently anti-intellectual, and they treat Eastern Uniates and Slavic Romans like pigs.

But the Roman church has hardly done any better, sometimes worse–and the Orthodox are orthodox. However much I might want to call them names, however much I might even want to beat them senseless–however much they might even deserve it!–they are real continuations of apostolic succession, and teachers of the true Catholic faith! You notice what language “Catholic” is? Ain’t Latin.

One thing that is simply beyond the pale, is to claim the Orthodox are teaching “unorthodox” doctrines–that is, to accuse them of heresy. It’s not true, and the Schism, the greatest scandal in the history of Christianity, has enough to maintain it without your help.

I apologize if any of our Orthodox brothers were offended by what I said above; but I have heard Orthodox give similar defense of Catholics, namely, whatever you think of them, they are still in apostolic succession and real Christians, so some things cannot be done.

It’s sort of along the lines of, “Yes he has all those flaws, but he is my brother, and you will not speak of him that way.”

Flagstaff?

Oooooohhhhh!

I used to live in Phoenix!

During July and August!

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Are you saying that Jesus used leavened bread at The Last Supper?

Yes.

 

[glimmer]

Maybe it would be better to simply ask why the Orthodox Church and The Eastern Catholic Churches use leavened bread, and leave the self-righteous commentary out.

Many months ago I was checking out many of the things I admired in the RC church. I really enjoyed some of the literature available. But then I came here and all I saw was constant one-upmanship. I found it wearying, insulting, annoying and quite offensive. The Catholic Church has many wonderful teachings buried under a lot of dusty debris that one must dig through to get to the gold. I don’t regret the digging. However, I did come to regret the “fellowship” on this forum–all but for a few precious souls. In the end, I said “no thanks” to any more. I just got so tired of this attitude of “I am better than you.” I hope some of you think before you answer any more non-Catholic posts. You aren’t doing the RC any favors and you certainly drove me away.

 

[Hastrman]

Yes.

Not on Passover, he didn’t.

The words “goyischer kopf” come irresistably to mind, though it’s technically a religious/racial slur.

But I have always been told that the Orthodox interpretation was that the rising of the yeast symbolized the rising from the dead, among other mystical interpretations. Using leavened bread in the Eucharist has always been kosher, so to speak (though, again, not for Passover ) in the East, though it’s not licit in the West (it’s still valid, and you can do it in an emergency).

Khristos voskrese.