Why did you choose Christianity over Islam?

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Needy1

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I’m asking to the Christians who been baptized or confirmed when you were adult, and knew about Islam.
 
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I chose to be confirmed in the Catholic Church because it is the truth. I did not choose islam because islam is a false doctrine, a heresy, and stemmed from diabolical origins.
 
I reject Islam because Muhammad contradicted the Qur’an. The Qur’an says that there is no compulsion in religion, but Muhammad said that anyone who apostatizes must be killed. That leads to people following Islam out of fear; they want to leave Islam, but the threat of execution prevents them from leaving. Only a deeply sinister religion would keep its followers living in fear.

Moreover, Christianity gives me peace of mind. Islam provides no comfort. It leads to pride or despair. You’re either at a point where you think you’ve done enough or you’re in a place where you don’t think you’ve done enough. The message of Christianity is such that it doesn’t put all the weight on your shoulders. I am accepted on the basis of Christ’s perfect obedience.
 
Needy1 said:
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drac16:
but Muhammad said that anyone who apostatizes must be killed
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In where? The Hadith, I guess?
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In Sahih al Bukhari, which is the most trusted book of Hadith in the Sunni faith. "*Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet (ﷺ) said, ‘Don’t punish (anybody) with Allah’s Punishment.’ No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet (ﷺ) said, ‘If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him*.’ " (sahih al Bukhari, hadith #3017)
 
drac16 said:
The Qur’an says that there is no compulsion in religion, but Muhammad said that anyone who apostatizes must be killed
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Not every school of jurisprudence believes that death is the punishment for apostasy, the Hanafi school of thought for example. Even so, the other schools of thought only espouse this punishment in the context of preventing public disorder, not simply if someone changes their religion in private.

Hadith doesn’t have as much weight as you may have believed, or as many Muslims today believe. That Hadith is also most likely a fabrication, because it says that Imam Ali (A) went against what the Prophet (S) said, this is clearly slander against Imam Ali (A). There are many Hadith like this, as the Prophet (S) said there are many secret hypocrites in his community. The Prophet (S) also said that to hate Imam Ali (A) is a sign of hypocrisy.
 
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I used to be an ex Muslim (you can see this on my early posts on this forum). In 2015, I lost my faith in Islam and wanted to become Catholic. One of the reasons why was because I bought into the claim that the early Church Fathers prove continuity between Jesus and the Catholic Church, and therefore it was not possible for Muhammad to be a true Prophet. In 2016 however, after reading books like ‘The Sedevacantist Delusion’ by John C. Pontrello, I realised that the Catholic Church isn’t the indefectible body of Christ it claims to be, but rather just another human institution. Furthermore, I slowly realised that this claim that the early Church Fathers prove continuity between Jesus and the Catholic or Orthodox Churches, is merely superficial. Eventually, I decided to make the effort of understanding the teachings of Christianity and Islam, let them speak for themselves…

“There is no compulsion in religion: true guidance has become distinct from error, so whoever rejects false gods and believes in God has grasped the firmest hand-hold, one that will never break. God is all hearing and all knowing.” -Qur’an 2:256
 
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SalamKhan said:
That Hadith is also most likely a fabrication, because it says that Imam Ali (A) went against what the Prophet (S) said, this is clearly slander against Imam Ali (A). There are many Hadith like this, as the Prophet (S) said there are many secret hypocrites in his community. The Prophet (S) also said that to hate Imam Ali (A) is a sign of hypocrisy.
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In what passage of the Quran did Mohammed say that?
 
The former (secret hypocrites) is in a Hadith narration in which the Prophet (S) informed Hudhayfah ibn al-Yaman of all the hypocrites in his community & entrusted him with this secret. As for the case of hating Imam Ali (A) being a sign of hypocrisy, this too is in a Hadith. There actually many Hadiths which extol the virtues of Imam Ali (A) and condemn those who go against him, even in Sunni collections; but unfortunately many Sunni scholars deliberately try to weaken/deny these Hadiths or take away from their meaning. I’m Sunni too BTW.
 
Why did you choose Islam over Orthodoxy?

I think part of the reason it is so difficult for Muslims to convert to Christianity (aside from extreme political, social, cultural and legal pressure in Islamic countries) is they would have to disavow a man they believed for so long is the great prophet and final messenger, as well as the writings he introduced to the world, which are not without appeal, even just aesthetically. I was raised Lutheran and I still have sympathy for Martin Luther, even though I know, consciously, that he is a heretic. There is still a soft spot there in my soul for his teachings.
 
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Neithan said:
Why did you choose Islam over Orthodoxy?
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It shares similar problems to Catholicism, such claiming that its teachings are from the Apostles but this is merely superficial. There are clear cut cases of doctrinal development in both Catholicism and Orthodoxy, i.e. Original Sin for Catholicism, and Essence-Energies distinction for Orthodoxy. Both share the irrational core doctrines, i.e. the Trinity and the Incarnation. Both have clear cut cases of hierarchical & ritual innovations, i.e. Papal Supremacy for Catholicism, and confirmation by priests for Orthodoxy.

And yes, for awhile I did try praying the rosary everyday, then after that the prayer rope (chotki).
 
It really is.
Even the stories of Christ in the Qur’an are basically old Gnostic traditions about him.
In fact that story about Jesus turning clay into birds is from the Infancy Gospel of Thomas, which is probably from the late second or early third century.
Muhammad just blended a lot of views from Gnosticism, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, and strangely there are shades of Manichaeism in it as well.
Then again, Arabia was an area heretics were exiled, so it does make sense.
 
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SalamKhan said:
the irrational core doctrines, i.e. the Trinity and the Incarnation
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Thank you for your answer. Those are indeed difficult doctrines, but I’m interested that you use irrationality as a reason to reject them. Do you believe Islam is more rational than Christianity? Is rational debate, without recourse to scriptures or doctrines, a good way to assess the quality of belief or to arrive at the truth?
 
If I’m honest I would probably say it’s initially because I was born in a nominally Christian country. And my experience of the Holy Spirit.
 
Oh and the radical changes in my personal and spiritual life since converting to Catholicism. I’m convinced
 
When I wanted to become Catholic, I did in fact abandon rationality when it came to the doctrines of the Trinity, Incarnation, Eucharist, etc. I actually kept telling other Muslims for example, that these are ‘divine mysteries’; true yet above human reason. By no means am I claiming that human reason alone leads to the truth, however the truth cannot be contrary to reason, as without our reason we cannot assent to or be certain of anything, except blindly; in this case all religions would be equal, equally true or equally false (depends on your perspective).
 
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Completely agree, that the truth cannot be contrary to reason. That is the teaching of the Catholic church as well, and there are many discussions of the Trinity, the Incarnation and the Eucharist with that in mind. I would recommend the book, Theology for Beginners by Frank Sheed, it’s a classic.

Islam has many different schools (somewhat similar to Protestant denominations I guess) so it can be difficult to know how or what any individual Muslim believes. Are there miracles that you accept? For example, the miraculous production of the Quran? How do you reconcile this rationally?
 
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I had assumed you were an Orthodox Christian, since you asked me why I rejected Orthodoxy. I am quite familiar with Catholic scholastic theology, by no means am I saying that I know everything there is to know about this, but in the end Thomas Aquinas wasn’t all that convincing to me.
Neithan said:
For example, the miraculous production of the Quran? How do you reconcile this rationally?
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"No animal has the ability to receive what is in the mind of another by the medium of rational speech, or to render it to another in that way… Since rational speech (nutq) is general to two meanings: the first of them is thinking and discerning, and the second is the declaration of what is thought and discerned; and furthermore, “rational speakers” (natiqun) are according to a hierarchy and an inequality in regard to [the meanings of nutq] as a whole, this hierarchy culminates in ascension to the rank of independence from discursive thinking in the category of ‘discerning’, such that the unseen becomes for him openly seen and what arises for someone else through discursive thinking arises for him through innate nature. It is the same in the category of ‘declaration’, so that all of his speech becomes inspired revelation (wahy) and what arises for someone else through authoritative instruction, arises for him through intuition. Thus his speech is distinguished as a whole, in these two ways (discernment and declaration), from the speech of other speakers, in perfection and nobility; and just as speech comes to be the inimitable miracle of the human being over the animal, likewise that perfection in respect of it comes to be the inimitable miracle of the prophet over human beings”

‘Abd al-Karim al-Shahrastani, (Keys to the Arcana, tr. Mayer, 120-21)
 
Alright, I guess Abd al-Karim al-Shahrastani strikes me in the same way Aquinas does for you. I’m not convinced, but I accept the metaphysical possibility of what he is discussing: perfect, superhuman speech. Perhaps there is a contact point here with the concept of the Logos — the Divine Word.

How about a miracle I presume we both have faith in: the Resurrection. Why is this rational but the Incarnation is not?
 
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