Why did you leave the Catholic Church?

[cheddarsox]

cheddarsox;2439602:

On the other hand, once I left I was told “Once a Catholic always a Catholic.” “you can’t leave.” "Your just rebelling, full of pride, want to sleep with whomever you wish, want to use birth control, want an easy religion. etc, etc."QUOTE]

What they were trying to say is

“Your just rebelling…” - if the faith is real (which means the Church has Christ’s authority on earth), then you have to accept the teachings of the chuch. It’s only logical. If it isn’t true, none of it is true. So in a sense, it is all or nothing since if God exists, comes in the flesh and establishes a church with His authority and it says things must be believed, why would you not listen? You either believe it or you don’t.

“you can’t leave” - if the religion is true, then by once being a Catholic and being taught however nominally what it teaches and you reject it, the Church teaches you’re not rejecting the Church or a group of men, but Christ himself. And if Christ is God, that is bad.

They were just sharing with you poorly/uncharitably what the church teaches. So if you don’t believe it, who cares what other people say? To find these teachings, they are in the various councils of the church, Scripture, and the various synod and papal documents/encyclicals/other writings all through the 2000 year history of the Church. There isn’t a central database or single day/document the Church taught everything in condensed form. The Catechism is the Church at (as my boss would say) the 50,000 foot level.

I agree that if I don’t believe that all the Church says is true, than I should not be a part of it. That is why I left. I never wanted or expected the Church to change or back down because of me.

On CAF, people tell me I was poorly Catechised. At this point, I don’t know how to respond to that. It seems that there is SO much to learn and know, I’m not sure how anyone can be well catechised. I studied the Catechism before confirmation. The areas I had issues with are actual teachings of the church, not merely my misunderstandings of teachings.

Also, apparently I have issues with things that are routinely practiced by Catholics, but are not official teachings of the Church as well. I’m not sure where those fall.

It doesn’t much matter to me what those people say. Its is mostly old history at this point. But it seemed pertinent to this discussion…the fact that people get very mixed messages and that it can be difficult to impossible to get the “official” Church teaching on an issue.

Some argue I should have left sooner, others that I’ve never really left, others that I’m still part of the fold, others that I have excommunicated myself. Even priests don’t have an answer for my status as far as the Church is concerned.

One thing I’ve learned is that outside the Church, all that minutia that used to take up so much time, energy and worry has sort of fallen away. What once passed as spirituality to me has been replaced by something more dynamic and purposeful. This may be due to my maturing as a person more than my change of faiths though.

I do think it is possible to have a mature, rich spirituality within Catholicism. I fell through the cracks. No one there with answers when I needed them, or too many people there with too many conflicting answers perhaps.

I’m fine now, but I do think that discussions like these are important, to find out what sort of situations lead to people’s leaving the faith. It’s hardly ever as simple as the “faithful” like to make it, it’s not just about weak people who can’t handle the truth.

Funny thing though, in the end the answer many people gave me…essentially, “get over yourself”, was the right one. It didn’t lead me back to Catholicism, but it did lead me to truth.

cheddar

 

[jimmy85]

The Second Vatican Council taught that all believers of different religions are saved if they are faithful to their conscience; however, they do so in virtue of the salvation brought by Jesus himself

that is what catholics believe about other religions so i recomend you not to pay a lot of attention to people that dunno their faith very well,
and people do can attain a great knowledge within catholicism, catholicism is not about what people say , but its about their true doctrine, and their true doctrines are openminded and not close like most of christians are.
they believe in multicultural traditions and they are not far from other religions.

and if the church want to keep spreading they must get into other peoples traditions and religions in order to become multicultural and taht is what the church is doing.
It happened in europe with paganism with latin america and in almost every place of the world with diferent cultures that blended their believes with catholicism.

however if soemone make a bad example of the catholic church peopel should realize that the whole religion is not to blame otherwise that would be ignorance.
we must be open minded in order to realzie that the stuffs that happen in our neighborhood are not the only stuffs that happen in the entire world.

 

[jimmy85]

the other day I saw this chinese dude that had in his house a statue of Buddha and beside it one of Jesus, and I got amazed.
it is interesting the fact that he keep his anceint traditions however he reconize Jesus as God. He covnerted to cahtolicism however he keep his ancient culture n i think that it is ok because he consider Buddha as a saint or as a holy man that taught a good way of living, and at the same time he acknowledge Jesus as God.

so I believe it is cool.
The differnt religious traditions are very similar to each other, dispite of their diferent believes they share the good moral.

I think that being multicultural strenghten us in order that we can have a better understanding toward religions, and above all a better moral and to avoid fundamentalist behaviors.

 

[Ahimsa]

the other day I saw this chinese dude that had in his house a statue of Buddha and beside it one of Jesus…

I think I know that guy.

 

[cheddarsox]

the other day I saw this chinese dude that had in his house a statue of Buddha and beside it one of Jesus, and I got amazed.
it is interesting the fact that he keep his anceint traditions however he reconize Jesus as God. He covnerted to cahtolicism however he keep his ancient culture n i think that it is ok because he consider Buddha as a saint or as a holy man that taught a good way of living, and at the same time he acknowledge Jesus as God.

so I believe it is cool.
The differnt religious traditions are very similar to each other, dispite of their diferent believes they share the good moral.

I think that being multicultural strenghten us in order that we can have a better understanding toward religions, and above all a better moral and to avoid fundamentalist behaviors.

I’ve done some of that, but in the other direction. I’m a pantheist, who still leans heavily on Christianity for guidance. I don’t believe everything Catholics believe about Christ, but neither have I cut all ties. I attend a Presbyterian Church, in many ways live by Christ’s moral teachings. Partake in Christian ritual do the degree that I believe. I have told my pastor. I don’t try to hide or lie to anyone.

I have found more of an “all or nothing” response from Catholics than from Protestants. Basically, many Catholics tell me since I left the one true church, there is no hope for my soul anyway, so why bother “playing” at Christianity. Protestants say, “I’m glad you are open to Christ and the Spirit, Walk with us, learn with us, serve with us.”

I am not playing at anything. I live what I believe, I live the faith I have been graced with.

As I age, I see parallels between my faith journey and my relationship to my family of origin. I see how that relatioship affected my faith journey as well. And honestly, I can’t see myself ever “coming home”, to either of them. They are probably too tangled together in my head for me to ever really salvage either of them. My family was SO Catholic. It was such a part of why they did everything they did, that I don’t think I’ll ever be able to see one without the other being reflected in it.

 

[guanophore]

people dont realize that God addapt himslef to us in a diferent way regarding our situation, and that catholicism is a path for that understanding. the only misconceptions that exist are made by human beings however the doctrine is perfect.and if sometimes we cant understand it, it is because we cant understand the fullness of the misterys of God, and therefore it is our mistake and not the mistake of the very same doctrine.

if someone tell you that(you are not Catholic), it will only shows a deep ignorance toward his religion.

I am not sure what the reference was about, but I don’t think it is necessarily ignorance. It sounds to me like the poster already has a bandoned a number of Catholic teachings

The true is that catholicism is a path and a perfect doctrine however catholics can be deeply ignorant about their true religion.

The church dosent impose his authority.

I disagree with this. I think the Church does impose authority, and has every right and responsibility to do so. The poster is clearly unhappy with the Church defining certain behaviors as sins, and rather than repent, has decided to leave.

They just say what they consider to be good or bad, that is their mission as the “Paraclete” to guide the lambs as Jesus told Peter.

Jesus did tell Peter to guide the Lambs, but it was not just a suggestion, or 'what they consider". In fact, it is the Teachings of Jesus Christ. Those who object to the teachings, object to Jesus.

they dont force anyone to obey this, they just advice this stuffs that they consider right, nobody is forced to follow this.

I agree that no one can be forced to obey Jesus, but the Church is very clear that those who don’t follow the teachings if Jesus will die in their sins, and that hell is reserved for the impious and the sinner.

that has been a huge misundertanding with the faithfull.
If they for example, exclude you from reciving the eucarist or something like taht, that would be only because they believe that thsoe sacraments are very precious however they dont want to force people to follow their authority.

I don’t think this is right either. I think somone is excluded from Eucharist because they are living in mortal sin, or because they are not in communion (defiant against) the Teachings of Jesus Christ. Scripture teaches us that a person taking communion in such a state will bring condemnation upon himself. The Church is protecting the rebellious one from eating and drinking the Body and Blood in a profane manner.

If someone is excomulgated that dosent mean that he is not a catholic anymore. Peopel can still be catholic regardless of that.

I don’t agree with this either. To be excomunicated means that one is no longer in communion with those who hold the Catholic faith, therefore, not Catholic. Most of the excommunications occur by the choice of the individual. For example, getting an abortion results in immediate excommunication.

 

[guanophore]

Hi,
I have never met any catholics who study the Bible except the apologists. I think the Bible was like an idol to my Mom. I wonder why my dad had to have a ST Christopher statue to keep him safe? Where do you think he got that idea? His catholic church. Dare you throw away all your statues and rosary’s and relics around your neck that are supposedly be able to save you. I must be seeing things when those in the catholic church bow to the statues and say prayers to them. There is a big market on statues for financial gain. Do you pray to your bed before you sleep at night?
Read Isaiah44
Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared [it]? ye [are] even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, [there is] no God; I know not [any].

Isa 44:9	¶	They that make a graven image [are] all of them vanity; and their delectable things shall not profit; and they [are] their own witnesses; they see not, nor know; that they may be ashamed.	Isa 44:10		Who hath formed a god, or molten a graven image [that] is profitable for nothing?	Isa 44:11		Behold, all his fellows shall be ashamed: and the workmen, they [are] of men: let them all be gathered together, let them stand up; [yet] they shall fear, [and] they shall be ashamed together.	Isa 44:12		The smith with the tongs both worketh in the coals, and fashioneth it with hammers, and worketh it with the strength of his arms: yea, he is hungry, and his strength faileth: he drinketh no water, and is faint.	Isa 44:13		The carpenter stretcheth out [his] rule; he marketh it out with a line; he fitteth it with planes, and he marketh it out with the compass, and maketh it after the figure of a man, according to the beauty of a man; that it may remain in the house.	Isa 44:14		He heweth him down cedars, and taketh the cypress and the oak, which he strengtheneth for himself among the trees of the forest: he planteth an ash, and the rain doth nourish [it].

Isa 44:15 Then shall it be for a man to burn: for he will take thereof, and warm himself; yea, he kindleth [it], and baketh bread; yea, he maketh a god, and worshippeth [it]; he maketh it a graven image, and falleth down thereto.
Isa 44:16 He burneth part thereof in the fire; with part thereof he eateth flesh; he roasteth roast, and is satisfied: yea, he warmeth [himself], and saith, Aha, I am warm, I have seen the fire:
Isa 44:17 And the residue thereof he maketh a god, [even] his graven image: he falleth down unto it, and worshippeth [it], and prayeth unto it, and saith, Deliver me; for thou [art] my god.

Mike

Clearly you are suffering from misunderstanding or misinformation, and believe, erroneously, that Catholics think their devotional objects “save” them. Catholics are saved by grace, through faith, as a result of the sacrificial death of Jesus on the cross.

Catholics don’t pray to, or “bow down before” statutes. Attitudes of reverence made before objects are done becuase of the persons we are reminded of when we look at them. We honor those who have gone before us in the faith, and have given their lives for their faith, and have lived lives worthy of the high calling to which we are called.

However, why not look into the Orthodox faith? They do not use statues.

 

[guanophore]

I left the church because I didn’t feel I got the answers I needed. And soon after leaving I felt it was a mistake. But I soon realized that the answers were not in a book or a person; they were in me.
When I left I converted to Islam; as some here may have guessed ( and quite rudely, I may add). To be honest I feel persecuted here on this board just as much as I do with the Muslims people I know.
I just want to remind everyone that it is Gods job to judge. not yours. I am a very honest Christian with a honest heart; who has a colorful past. I would not change a thing because it has made me who I am today.

I am sorry that you have had a rude experience on this board. Maybe it is because we all know it is not possible to be Muslim and Christian at the same time?

 

[dessert]

I’m in the process of leaving. I’m tired of all the silly rules, guilt, and regulations. I don’t believe in Purgatory, Mary was an ever-Virgin, I do believe in the Virgin birth. My wife is remaining Catholic. The kids are leaving with me. I won’t let them get brainwashed like we were

I hope you will reconsider at least until your children are through the sacraments, then if they decide on their own when they are older you have given them a one foundation. And it would mean a lot to your wife as I know you love her more than them and yourself. I can tell by your words you care or you would not have stayed as long as you have. I get tired of the rules too but it is a good foundation and good guidelines to build a christian life. It is a rock not like sand that shifts and changes. God Bless your family and protect you. Dessert

 

[guanophore]

I’m in the process of leaving. I’m tired of all the silly rules, guilt, and regulations. I don’t believe in Purgatory, Mary was an ever-Virgin, I do believe in the Virgin birth. My wife is remaining Catholic. The kids are leaving with me. I won’t let them get brainwashed like we were

Would you be so kind as to specify which “silly rules, guilt, and regulations” that have made you so tired?

Can you explain what purgatory is?

Can you explain why you don’t believe Mary was ever virgin?

Thanks for your consideration of my questions.

 

[BelFarfalla]

It’s not a prayer, it’s repetition. 53 times… why? Who set the standards. I understand that Paul asked God for the same thing three times but not in a row! Would you like it if somebody came up to you and asked you 53 times the same question all in less than an hour?
In the “Hail Mary”, there is no asking for anything in Jesus’ name like He said to pray to God.
I believe what Jesus said: to pray to God in His name. When He taught us to pray and when He went alone to pray for Himself and us, He did not say “Hail Mary”.

I’ve seen answered prayers. I’ve seen miracles. None of them happened over prayer beads and repeating a few Bible verses over and over.

Once again you ignore the prays to Jesus made many times on the Rosary.

Why 53 times? Because that is the number of biblical passages that made up the original group that people memorized in contemplation of the Rosary. The Hail Mary, Our Father, etc are recited between the biblical verses. Actually a person can make a ‘rosary’, meaning the verses and prayers, with as many verses, prayers, etc as they choose.

While you may not have ever seen any good come from parying the Rosary, there are millions who have.

 

[jimmy85]

I am not sure what the reference was about, but I don’t think it is necessarily ignorance. It sounds to me like the poster already has a bandoned a number of Catholic teachings

I disagree with this. I think the Church does impose authority, and has every right and responsibility to do so. The poster is clearly unhappy with the Church defining certain behaviors as sins, and rather than repent, has decided to leave.
.

Im not losing my religion at all. I consider the tecahings of the church to be perfect, and it is the path that we should follow. It dosent mean that if u cant follow them you will go to hell or something like that but we must try to make an effort to be better that is the goal of the moral teachings of the church.

The church say what they consider as “good or bad”. They have the authority to do so.
I think however that they do it as an exortation to people that are not close to the faith and as an imposition to the people that are very faithfull in the church.

the church dosent force every catholic to follow their believes but they exort them to do them.

I agree that no one can be forced to obey Jesus, but the Church is very clear that those who don’t follow the teachings if Jesus will die in their sins, and that hell is reserved for the impious and the sinner.

well most of catholics in the entire world dont obey the teachigns of the church in the proper way, i mean they dont practice theri faith they dotn go to confesion the eucarist etc. that dosent make them rebels or impious. they jstu dont practice theri believe.

the fact of the matter is that people can have a religion even if unfortunately they do not practice all the doctrines in a perfect way. otherwise the 17% of the world that is catholic wouldnt be call catholic.

I don’t think this is right either. I think somone is excluded from Eucharist because they are living in mortal sin, or because they are not in communion (defiant against) the Teachings of Jesus Christ. Scripture teaches us that a person taking communion in such a state will bring condemnation upon himself. The Church is protecting the rebellious one from eating and drinking the Body and Blood in a profane manner.

Nobody cant recive the eucarist if the church dosent allow it. that is clear.
However u can recive it spiritualy therefore u are not out of the church. most of the entire world including most of catholics use contraception, they MUST be away from the eucarist hwoever that dosent make them atheists, nor it dosent mean that they will go to hell.

However those bad habits like contraception, are soemthing negative and the church exort peopel not to do them however if you are excomulgated from the eucarist that dosent mean u are not a catholic anymore.

teh eucarist is so much precious so I udnerstand the fact that peopel liek this cant recive it however they still are catholics and they can pray a rosary or go to confesion, and they can partake in the spiritual comunion.

it is obious that the teaching of the church are the path to God , that was established by God himself. however God dosent judge like people say; he adapt himslef to judge diferently other people.
taht dotn parktake in the sacraments.
he is endlessly more mercyfull than this, so the fact taht
soemoen is excomulgated dosent means that he will go to hell , but that he has to correct himself.

If u cant recive the eucarist that dosent means that you cant be part of the church in a spiritual way as you know anyoen can recive the eucarist in a spiritual way n not sacramentaly.
you still can go to mass, pray ,have diferent devotions etc.

 

[guanophore]

Im not losing my religion at all. I consider the tecahings of the church to be perfect, and it is the path that we should follow. It dosent mean that if u cant follow them you will go to hell or something like that but we must try to make an effort to be better that is the goal of the moral teachings of the church.

I am confused, then. Why would you consider leaving? I understood your post to say that you were disgusted with hypocrisy, which personally, I thought was a bad reason to leave, but you also said that you didn’t agree with the doctrines. Now you are saying you agree with the doctrines?

well most of catholics in the entire world dont obey the teachigns of the church in the proper way, i mean they dont practice theri faith they dotn go to confesion the eucarist etc. that dosent make them rebels or impious. they jstu dont practice theri believe.

What do you think causes that, if it is no rebellion or selfishness? Jesus said "not all those who say to me “Lord, Lord” will enter the Kingdom. They can profess to be Catholic, but if they don’t practice their faith, then what good is it? They are salt that has lost it’s savor. Good for nothing but to be trampled underfoot. Jesus said He would spit them out of His mouth!

the fact of the matter is that people can have a religion even if unfortunately they do not practice all the doctrines in a perfect way. otherwise the 17% of the world that is catholic wouldnt be call catholic.

I think the vast majority of so called catholics have no idea what it means to BE catholic.

Nobody cant recive the eucarist if the church dosent allow it. that is clear.

Well, people do. When you go to confession, and you see these short lines, and then you go to Mass, and you see these long lines. I cannot BELIEVE these people do not sin! They take communion when they are not in a state of grace, and thereby damage their souls. I think this is the biggest problem with the Catholic Church today.

However u can recive it spiritualy therefore u are not out of the church. most of the entire world including most of catholics use contraception, they MUST be away from the eucarist hwoever that dosent make them atheists, nor it dosent mean that they will go to hell.

Most American Catholics that use contraception and get abortions are still taking communion.

However those bad habits like contraception, are soemthing negative and the church exort peopel not to do them however if you are excomulgated from the eucarist that dosent mean u are not a catholic anymore.

contraception is more than a “bad habit”. It is deliberate disobedience to the commandments of God. What makes a person “not catholic anymore” is rejecting the teachings of Christ, and refusing to practice his commandments. At the very least, they are protestants.

teh eucarist is so much precious so I udnerstand the fact that peopel liek this cant recive it however they still are catholics and they can pray a rosary or go to confesion, and they can partake in the spiritual comunion.

But they don’t. They receive without discerning the Body and the Blood, and are making themselves more spiritually sick.

it is obious that the teaching of the church are the path to God , that was established by God himself. however God dosent judge like people say; he adapt himslef to judge diferently other people taht dotn parktake in the sacraments. .

God does judge, but He asks us to judge ourselves first, so that He won’t have to do it. If we make an examination of conscience, and use the sacrament of reconciliation, we can escape condemnation.

Those that do not have the teachings will still be judged in the light of their conscience.

he is endlessly more mercyfull than this, so the fact taht
soemoen is excomulgated dosent means that he will go to hell , but that he has to correct himself.

It is harder to correct oneself when one refuses to accept the teachings.

If u cant recive the eucarist that dosent means that you cant be part of the church in a spiritual way as you know anyoen can recive the eucarist in a spiritual way n not sacramentaly. you still can go to mass, pray ,have diferent devotions etc.

Yes, but this is not an excuse to persist in mortal sin.

 

[jimmy85]

I wasent leaving my religion, and I agree with every teaching of the church.
and people should NEVER take communion while being in sin. so I agree.

Most of catholic dont follow their precepts not in defiance but because they dunno that it is bad to miss mass or to miss the comunion. most of catholics over here dosent know that Jesus is in the eucarist or they are not aware of the spiritual obligation and beneficts of going to church and they cant put in practice what they dont know.

some peopel also lack of faith in the rituals of the church and it is normal because they dunno the real meaning of them.

You have to accept that we live in a secular society and you cant compel secular people to go to mass every sunday, but only to exort them.

 

[jimmy85]

I’m in the process of leaving. I’m tired of all the silly rules, guilt, and regulations. I don’t believe in Purgatory, Mary was an ever-Virgin, I do believe in the Virgin birth. My wife is remaining Catholic. The kids are leaving with me. I won’t let them get brainwashed like we were

you seem really upset about the church, but I dont understand you situation. I hope you could talk us more about it.

I think you should consider the damages of a lack of religion in your family.
However you dotn have to be a faithfull person.

“I dont understand at all why people have to choose in being perfect catholics or non catholics”.

I sincerely tell you, if I was an atheist I would be searching for a religion with a good moral “only” to raise my family with it. because I think an atheist life must be really tough, especially for young people.

 

[sosayi1960]

Would you be so kind as to specify which “silly rules, guilt, and regulations” that have made you so tired?

Can you explain what purgatory is?

Can you explain why you don’t believe Mary was ever virgin?

Thanks for your consideration of my questions.

I do believe that Mary was a Virgin when she gave birth to Our Lord. The church suggest that she never had relations with her husband after Jesus was born. That, to me is just silly. Mary and Joseph then just lived together.

I guess as far as the rules and regulations go. Birth control is a mortal sin. Don’t buy it. We, my wife and I could not put her through another birth. I got"fixed". I was not about to let her die because of a church teaching.

I live in a heavily Catholic town. I’ve seen Priests eat meat on Friday’s in Lent. If I ate corned beef on St. Patrick’s Day, I’ll go to hell if it’s on a Friday? I cannot live as a perfect Catholic. I’m not a Saint. I personally believe, that I, as a Catholic, cannot live the letter of the law and ignore the heart of the law.

The church appears concerned only about the letter. We had to spend a fortune on our kids making their first communion. I saw it as exploiting the Eucharist. We had to pay a ton of extra fees above and beyond the tuition for CCD for our kids.

I was criticized by a nun because I left my checkbook at home. In front of a group of people she threatened" You must pay us before your son can make his 1st Communion". I felt very embarrassed it was an honest mistake. She gave me a nasty look. I could have crawled out of the church.

I can’t imagine a Loving God putting us in a place after we die to be “cleaned up”. Jesus death forgave our sins. We are cleansed by his blood. To suggest Purgatory, at least to me, is to suggest he didn’t get it right. i don’t believe there is anything we can do to inherit eternal life.
St. Paul says: “All of us have fallen short of the glory of God”. To suggest I can pray for my dead parents to get out of purgatory seems silly . It’s a great way though of the church making allot of money. I have been called a "Liberal, Protestant, and on and on. I have been told that I have excommunicated myself. the hatred i have felt from the Catholic church is unreal. I don’t appreciate members of a loving “Church” hating me so.

I seen how our Parish priest has treated my son, who happens to have Autism. The priest knows he has Autism. He isn’t diseased. The priest, has treated him like vermin. One would think that a place which shoves “Life” down it’s members throats would be a little more understanding.
My wife and I met on a Franciscan Retreat during holy week. I am well informed about many of the teachings of the church. I’ve had 16 yrs of theology. I simply feel that church doesn’t need me, nor my family. At least Protestant churches care about their members. There are enough Catholics already. God Bless!

 

[guanophore]

Most of catholic dont follow their precepts not in defiance but because they dunno that it is bad to miss mass or to miss the comunion.

I agree that many Catholics are poorly catechized. It is tragic.

most of catholics over here dosent know that Jesus is in the eucarist or they are not aware of the spiritual obligation and beneficts of going to church and they cant put in practice what they dont know.

What do you think should be done about that?

 some peopel also lack of faith in the rituals of the church and it is normal because they dunno the real meaning of them.

You have to accept that we live in a secular society and you cant compel secular people to go to mass every sunday, but only to exort them.

I don’t accept that. I mean, I agree that we live in a secular society, but if anyone calls himself a Catholic, he has a responsibility to learn his faith, and those of us that do understand the faith have a responsibility to help them become educated.

 

[guanophore]

I do believe that Mary was a Virgin when she gave birth to Our Lord. The church suggest that she never had relations with her husband after Jesus was born. That, to me is just silly. Mary and Joseph then just lived together.

Why do you think this is “just silly”. Do you think there were no consecrated virgins at the time?

Have you ever heard of Mary as the Ark of the New Covenant?

I guess as far as the rules and regulations go. Birth control is a mortal sin. Don’t buy it. We, my wife and I could not put her through another birth. I got"fixed". I was not about to let her die because of a church teaching.

Yes, this is one of the most common reasons that people reject the church. It is a great struggle to let God be God of those we love.

I live in a heavily Catholic town. I’ve seen Priests eat meat on Friday’s in Lent.

In is a shame that we are lacking sometimes in holy priests. I think they don’t get enough support from the congregation. I wonder what would happen if someonen in the parish invited them over on Friday, and served fish?

If I ate corned beef on St. Patrick’s Day, I’ll go to hell if it’s on a Friday?

No, because feast days always outtrump fast days. When a feast falls during lent, on that day , the feast is celebrated.

I cannot live as a perfect Catholic. I’m not a Saint. I personally believe, that I, as a Catholic, cannot live the letter of the law and ignore the heart of the law.

If we were unable to live according to the precepts of God, He would not ask us to do so. It is possible to “be perfect, as our heavenly father is perfect”. God would not ask us to do the impossible. I think, though, that too often we try to do so on our own power, rather than yielding to grace. In Jesus kingdom, there is no distinction between the letter, and the heart of the law. we are all called to be saints, and God has already made provision for our weaknesses.

The church appears concerned only about the letter. We had to spend a fortune on our kids making their first communion. I saw it as exploiting the Eucharist. We had to pay a ton of extra fees above and beyond the tuition for CCD for our kids.

I don’t think this has to do with the Church, as it does with our own culture. We have recognized these events as rites of passage, and take the opportunity to aggrandize them. In other countries and cultures, we don’t find all that fanfare. I wonder what would happen if you had told them you could not afford it? I also think it is a problem that we have relied on the parishes to catechize our children, instead of doing this at home, in the domestic church. We expect strangers to teach our faith to the children, instead of teaching it to them daily in the house. the same thing has happened with values in the public schools.

I was criticized by a nun because I left my checkbook at home. In front of a group of people she threatened" You must pay us before your son can make his 1st Communion". I felt very embarrassed it was an honest mistake. She gave me a nasty look. I could have crawled out of the church.

How embarrasing! She should be ashamed of herself. Maybe you should have crawled out, so she could understand how belittling her behavior was. I hope you went to her privately , and told her how you felt.

(continued)

 

[guanophore]

I can’t imagine a Loving God putting us in a place after we die to be “cleaned up”. Jesus death forgave our sins. We are cleansed by his blood. To suggest Purgatory, at least to me, is to suggest he didn’t get it right.

Jesus purifies us in the cleansing waters of baptism, but then we go out again, and live in this secular world. you have just given several excellent examples of so called “believers” who fall short of the glory of God. since nothing unclean can enter heaven, these impurities must be burned away before we can enter. It is precisely BECAUSE He is a loving God that he cleans us up!

i don’t believe there is anything we can do to inherit eternal life.

This one is such a big topic I will have to move it to another thread.

St. Paul says: “All of us have fallen short of the glory of God”. To suggest I can pray for my dead parents to get out of purgatory seems silly . It’s a great way though of the church making allot of money.

Interceding for others costs nothing, except the time and effort from the loved one.

I have been called a "Liberal, Protestant, and on and on. I have been told that I have excommunicated myself. the hatred i have felt from the Catholic church is unreal. I don’t appreciate members of a loving “Church” hating me so.

Perhaps people just don’t understand you, and are misjudging you (not that anyone should judge you at all). People calling you names does not make you anything different. Remember, they called Jesus names too! It didn’t change who He was. And He said that all who wish to live a Godly life will be persecuted. So, you are in good company!

I seen how our Parish priest has treated my son, who happens to have Autism. The priest knows he has Autism. He isn’t diseased. The priest, has treated him like vermin. One would think that a place which shoves “Life” down it’s members throats would be a little more understanding.

Yes, one would. But try not to hold the personal sins of the members of the Church against the Church Herself. The Church is full of sinners, this is where we all come to be made pure. That is why Christ focused so much on forgiveness, because He knows how limited we all are. The priest may know your son is Autistic, but that does not mean he has any understanding of it. Autism is a complex condition about which most people are puzzled. They may have seen 'Rain Man", and that is all they know.

My wife and I met on a Franciscan Retreat during holy week. I am well informed about many of the teachings of the church. I’ve had 16 yrs of theology. I simply feel that church doesn’t need me, nor my family. At least Protestant churches care about their members. There are enough Catholics already. God Bless!

I have to disagree with you on this point. The Church does need you. In one of your other posts, you talked about the yearning for the contemplative life, and the rich monastic tradition of holiness. this is clearly a part of the life of the Church that stands out to you, and is perhaps calling to you. As a person who spent 20 years in Protestant circles with the same complaints about CAtholicism you have, I can assure you that there are just as many self centered sinners in those communities as there are in any Catholic parish.

Thank you for sharing your experiences here.

 

[jimmy85]

I do believe that Mary was a Virgin when she gave birth to Our Lord. The church suggest that she never had relations with her husband after Jesus was born. That, to me is just silly. Mary and Joseph then just lived together.

I guess as far as the rules and regulations go. Birth control is a mortal sin. Don’t buy it. We, my wife and I could not put her through another birth. I got"fixed". I was not about to let her die because of a church teaching.

I live in a heavily Catholic town. I’ve seen Priests eat meat on Friday’s in Lent. If I ate corned beef on St. Patrick’s Day, I’ll go to hell if it’s on a Friday? I cannot live as a perfect Catholic. I’m not a Saint. I personally believe, that I, as a Catholic, cannot live the letter of the law and ignore the heart of the law.

The church appears concerned only about the letter. We had to spend a fortune on our kids making their first communion. I saw it as exploiting the Eucharist. We had to pay a ton of extra fees above and beyond the tuition for CCD for our kids.

I was criticized by a nun because I left my checkbook at home. In front of a group of people she threatened" You must pay us before your son can make his 1st Communion". I felt very embarrassed it was an honest mistake. She gave me a nasty look. I could have crawled out of the church.

I can’t imagine a Loving God putting us in a place after we die to be “cleaned up”. Jesus death forgave our sins. We are cleansed by his blood. To suggest Purgatory, at least to me, is to suggest he didn’t get it right. i don’t believe there is anything we can do to inherit eternal life.
St. Paul says: “All of us have fallen short of the glory of God”. To suggest I can pray for my dead parents to get out of purgatory seems silly . It’s a great way though of the church making allot of money. I have been called a "Liberal, Protestant, and on and on. I have been told that I have excommunicated myself. the hatred i have felt from the Catholic church is unreal. I don’t appreciate members of a loving “Church” hating me so.

I seen how our Parish priest has treated my son, who happens to have Autism. The priest knows he has Autism. He isn’t diseased. The priest, has treated him like vermin. One would think that a place which shoves “Life” down it’s members throats would be a little more understanding.
My wife and I met on a Franciscan Retreat during holy week. I am well informed about many of the teachings of the church. I’ve had 16 yrs of theology. I simply feel that church doesn’t need me, nor my family. At least Protestant churches care about their members. There are enough Catholics already. God Bless!

Th Perpetual VIrginity of Mary by St Jerome

I advice you to take it easy you can be a non practical catholic if you have dificultys practicing it. you dont have to go to the extreme of quiting the religion.