Why didn't God make us perfect in the first place?

[itinerant1]

hi. yes, i’m asking the same question, and one more: why did God make us having free will when we can use this to reject Him? i ask these questions because i’m tired of feeling and thinking that i’m going to hell for my sins. i wish that i could just live the way i see fit and not feel guilty for wanting and doing things that are ‘bad’ even when i don’t see them as such! i’m soooooo tired of feeling guilty and condemned

It looks like you need separate out the issues here, and deal with them individually.

The latter issue about your guilt is a curious one. Why do you feel condemned if you think certain things you do are not bad? Why feel guilty if you are doing no wrong?
Or, is it that deeper down something is telling you that what you are doing is wrong, while on the surface of your consciousness, you have told yourself otherwise. Hence, your internal conflict.

 

[Scaun]

A “perfect” creature is the one that has the ability to function imperfectly. This is why I say that we are better than stars, for example. They can only function according to the laws they are given (like the one of gravity). We have the possibility to defy the laws God gave us (we can commit adultery) thus we are better, if we agree that a creature that has the ability to work imperfectly (and perfectly) is better than one that can only work perfectly.

 

[itinerant1]

A “perfect” creature is the one that has the ability to function imperfectly.

To the contrary, I will say that the ability to function imperfectly is an imperfection, or at least implies a state of imperfection. Further, when a rational creature functions or chooses what is objectively wrong, it adds to his imperfection, as when an evil choice creates an evil habit or disposition.

This is why I say that we are better than stars, for example. They can only function according to the laws they are given (like the one of gravity).

Absolutely speaking, we are better than stars, are worth more than stars because we are composed of, in addition to matter which we share with the stars, an immortal, spiritual soul which can know and will.

However, relatively speaking, anything in nature (stars, trees, flowers, deer) that are what God wants them to be, according to their natures, as God created them, are better than man when he chooses something that is contrary to his nature, and thus is not existing according to God’s will.

We have the possibility to defy the laws God gave us (we can commit adultery) thus we are better, if we agree that a creature that has the ability to work imperfectly (and perfectly) is better than one that can only work perfectly.

We have the power to defy the laws of God for our nature, but it is not because we can misuse that power that makes us perfect, it is because we have the power of rational choice in itself, in the first place, that makes us ontologically superior to non-rational creatures.

However, the potential to misuse rational choice indicates that the will of man, in this life, exists in a state of imperfection. When the will is perfected, then it is wholly incapable of choosing evil. The will is perfected in the vision of the Divine Essence, in which it can only choose God, it cannot turn away; and this is the condition of perfection and absolute freedom of the will.

By way of an analogy, we know that God is perfect and lacks no perfection of His nature. And God cannot choose evil. For instance, God cannot lie. God cannot do evil because He is perfect being. That God absolutely cannot choose evil in no way represents a limitation on His infinite power. It belongs to the perfection of absolute Goodness not to be capable of evil, even potentially able, to choose what is contrary to His nature as infinite Goodness.

In contrast, since man is a finite creature existing in this life in a state of imperfection he can choose evil. When man is perfected in Heaven, his will is confirmed immovably in the Good.

I think it is the vice of pride, which makes us think that just the ability to choose wrong is real perfection, power, freedom and dignity. Adam and Eve fell for that line. If they would only choose such and such they would be as gods. As a result, they lost their freedom and perfections given by preter-natural graces.

One of the effects of Original Sin is that we do not will the good that we ought, nor are we able to do the good that we will. The will has become enslaved. Choosing evil makes the will a slave to sin. Only the grace of Christ can free the will to choose rightly. That is why we have the Sacraments. And if we choose rightly, we will be perfected in Heaven where we can only choose God.

 

[miss_jo_baehr]

It looks like you need separate out the issues here, and deal with them individually.

The latter issue about your guilt is a curious one. Why do you feel condemned if you think certain things you do are not bad? Why feel guilty if you are doing no wrong?
Or, is it that deeper down something is telling you that what you are doing is wrong, while on the surface of your consciousness, you have told yourself otherwise. Hence, your internal conflict.

i feel condemned because, while i don’t think some of my actions are so bad to merit eternal damnation, the catholic church (where i belong) says so, and this saddens me deeply, to the point of feeling hopeless and irredeemable. the reason i ask these questions is i can’t see a God “abounding in mercy and compassion” condemning me to hell, though this same God said, “what you [the church] hold bound on earth will be held bound in heaven”. i really wish that for a second i could stop thinking about the church’s rules and just focus on discovering my personal relationship with God in peace…but how can i when the church and her teachings form a necessary part of my faith life? how can i live an authentic christian life without fear of going to hell when hell is real and when sin means a rejection of God even when i don’t really intend to reject God when i sin?

 

[miss_jo_baehr]

However, the potential to misuse rational choice indicates that the will of man, in this life, exists in a state of imperfection. When the will is perfected, then it is wholly incapable of choosing evil. The will is perfected in the vision of the Divine Essence, in which it can only choose God, it cannot turn away; and this is the condition of perfection and absolute freedom of the will.

is our will perfected only in the next life or can it be transformed while we’re here on earth? is there something i can do, like a daily exercise, to help my will turn to cooperating with God’s will to save me from sin and death? my christian friends say that i have to surrender to God in order to be changed by him, but how do i do that? what does “surrender to God” mean concretely? what does it entail?

 

[miss_jo_baehr]

Why doesn’t God grab his spiritual baseball bat and beat the daylights of the bully?

says in ephesians 1:3 that God “…has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavens, as he chose us in him, before the foundation of the world, to be holy and without blemish before him.” So God has given us all that we need to be holy. and maybe we (not just you, for you’re not alone in thinking and feeling that God must be distant or uncaring for subjecting us to sin and evil when we never asked him to create us or it wasn’t our fault but our first parents’ fault, in the first place) are having a hard time struggling to be good and holy because we’re missing something…i’m sorry i can’t tell you what we ought to be doing or what we’re probably doing wrong because i don’t know what else to do myself. but let me just tell you that YOU’RE NEVER ALONE IN FEELING CONFUSED OR DISHEARTENED. i think we–the whole human race–feel and think that way at least at one point in our lives. so just keep asking and searching and complaining, because it’s all part of our journey toward God who is nearer to us than we think.

 

[itinerant1]

i feel condemned because, while i don’t think some of my actions are so bad to merit eternal damnation, the catholic church (where i belong) says so, and this saddens me deeply, to the point of feeling hopeless and irredeemable. the reason i ask these questions is i can’t see a God “abounding in mercy and compassion” condemning me to hell, though this same God said, “what you [the church] hold bound on earth will be held bound in heaven”. i really wish that for a second i could stop thinking about the church’s rules and just focus on discovering my personal relationship with God in peace…but how can i when the church and her teachings form a necessary part of my faith life? how can i live an authentic christian life without fear of going to hell when hell is real and when sin means a rejection of God even when i don’t really intend to reject God when i sin?

Have you sought out a priest for advice? I’m not a spiritual counselor. I can just give my unenlightened opinions. The Church with its teachings must remain a necessary part of your life. St. Paul taught that we go to God through the community. And the priest is the spiritual head of the community.

You said you want to “just focus on discovering my personal relationship with God in peace.” But there seems to an obstacle in the way, correct? All of us have obstacles to the love of God and the love of others. We must work, every day, at removing those obstacles.

Are you feeling helpless in removing any obstacles? If so, keep turning to God since he understands your situation much better than you do. If you rely on prayer, especially the Rosary, and frequent reception of the Sacraments, your situation will get better.

In your next post you asked questions about the will. I had said the process of perfection begins in this life with the help of God’s grace. By grace we are gradually transformed into a new person in Christ. We can reach a certain perfection in this life, as Christ said “Be ye perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect.” Each of use can become saintly followers of Christ. I also mentioned the final perfection of the will in the Beatific Vision.

Remember, I think you should seek out a spiritual counselor. I’m more adept at discussing theology. So, if you want to discuss Church teachings in moral theology that are relevant to your situation, I can do that. The conversation can be carried on privately through personal messages. Take care.

 

[mangy_dog]

He did, He did create us perfect,

It’s just that pesky little gift He included called “Free Will” that has been eroding our perfection along with Original Sin, part of our nature.

With free will, we sin, choosing the bad, wrong or evil - suffering the consequences of our own actions and decisions. Then we blame God for not making us perfect in the first place.

Same thing happened to the Angels in heaven, free will. Hubris at the thought of serving mankind followed by God becoming one of them was just too much for Lucifer and the other fallen angels to accept.

Free will.

 

[miss_jo_baehr]

We must work, every day, at removing those obstacles.
Are you feeling helpless in removing any obstacles? If so, keep turning to God since he understands your situation much better than you do. If you rely on prayer, especially the Rosary, and frequent reception of the Sacraments, your situation will get better.

Yes, i feel like i’ve been going around in circles all my life and i’m tired of it. i once sought the help of a jesuit priest-psychotherapist, but all we talked about were my “psychological” issues and i think he’s too liberal in his beliefs for my good. i’m now reading ralph c. martin’s “called to holiness” which presents God’s qualities and desire of salvation for us, and humankind’s common vocation to holiness. his chapter on ‘the rejection of holiness’ where he enumerated the many ways man dishonors God to his detriment, was like a slap on my face–it woke me up to the truth that God deserves our utmost respect in every aspect of our relating with him and it also made me feel ashamed of how i’d complained about my life and its seeming futility (the feeling of futility i experience is rather general…amorphous. i just feel it most days and it lingers till i try to snap out of it…then it creeps in on me again and overwhelms me…you may think i’m manic-depressive or something. i was diagnosed by the priest-psychotherapist as suffering from bpd–borderline personality disorder.) so thank you for encouraging me to pray more, esp the rosary, and to recourse to the sacraments to sustain my feeble attempts at change. i will be diligent this time because we’re really at war with satan and our very lives are at stake. let’s keep in touch. we need all the help we can get. take care.

 

[itinerant1]

Yes, i feel like i’ve been going around in circles all my life and i’m tired of it. i once sought the help of a jesuit priest-psychotherapist, but all we talked about were my “psychological” issues and i think he’s too liberal in his beliefs for my good. i’m now reading ralph c. martin’s “called to holiness” which presents God’s qualities and desire of salvation for us, and humankind’s common vocation to holiness. his chapter on ‘the rejection of holiness’ where he enumerated the many ways man dishonors God to his detriment, was like a slap on my face–it woke me up to the truth that God deserves our utmost respect in every aspect of our relating with him and it also made me feel ashamed of how i’d complained about my life and its seeming futility (the feeling of futility i experience is rather general…amorphous. i just feel it most days and it lingers till i try to snap out of it…then it creeps in on me again and overwhelms me…you may think i’m manic-depressive or something. i was diagnosed by the priest-psychotherapist as suffering from bpd–borderline personality disorder.) so thank you for encouraging me to pray more, esp the rosary, and to recourse to the sacraments to sustain my feeble attempts at change. i will be diligent this time because we’re really at war with satan and our very lives are at stake. let’s keep in touch. we need all the help we can get. take care.

Psychological problems, just like physical illnesses, are crosses we carry. Sometimes healing is available to us through doctors.

On the lighter side…
Q: How do you know someone in church has OCD?
A: There’s soap in the holy water.

 

[miss_jo_baehr]

Psychological problems, just like physical illnesses, are crosses we carry. Sometimes healing is available to us through doctors.

On the lighter side…
Q: How do you know someone in church has OCD?
A: There’s soap in the holy water.

hahaha…thanks, needed that keep in touch. go with God