Why didn't God provide a plan of salvation for fallen angels?

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Yeah, the Prophecy series is similar.

I’m curious if anyone noticed that on the far West cost of Europe is where the “Anglos” settled. When things got a little more crowded, they moved further West onto the Island to establish “Angl-land”, where they spoke “Anglish”.

But interestingly, when America was discovered, once again, on the far West coast - “Los Angeles”.

The language of the merchants and traders in ancient Europe, although dubbed “Germanic” by the Romans (meaning foreign, as in germs), the actual language was Anglos, now called English. These merchants were the messengers from town to town.

And then lo and behold, what is the primary occupation of the city of Los Angeles? - Making movies that carry ideas throughout the world.

What do Angels do?

Not everything is coincidence. 😃
 
James_S_Saint said:
Not to mention the word “angel” as well.

I have to take it that this entire discussion is about the Hollywood angels. It all seems very creative and pleasant, but seems to be totally lacking actual understanding of even what the word really means.

I have to assume such understanding is not a part of Catholic discipline. 😊
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You would probably feel more at home with SETI, the Art Bell show, and talking to little green men instead of discussing real angels. LOL
 
I find it also interesting that the man who painted the Sistine Chapel just happened to be named, “Michael-de-angelo”. But I see that in the same light as the man supposedly named “Nostrodamus”, which happens to mean “Our Damnation”, who just happened to write a paper on the damnation of the world.

If you look in Wikipedia, it says that he was a Jew who happened to change his name to the Latin for “Our-Damnation” when he converted to Christianity. Lies seem to be so much easier to tell than truth.

If you do the Sherlock Holmes thing on the word “angel” back even before there was formal Latin and even before any written language recognizable today, you can discover exactly the true nature of Angels, how they came about, why they exist, what they can or cannot do, and their role in human history.

I have understood the very idea of angels having and earning wings to be of Catholic origin, but perhaps not. I have always admired the Catholic for having a much better grasp on the true meanings of things than the Protestants, but there still seems to be a great deal of imagination involved.
 
And to answer the OP question more directly;

A bad idea that serves a bad purpose, does not become a good idea serving a good purpose.

There is no “salvation”, but then there is no torment either. Angels do not suffer. They just do their thing where they are permitted to run free.
 
Angels are not living in time. We can repent because our lives are spread out. Angels are immaterial and exist outside of time - their life is an eternal moment. The sum of what they are is encompassed in that moment.
 
Angels are spirits. Spirits with free will. Just read that in the catechism.
 
James_S_Saint said:
I have understood the very idea of angels having and earning wings to be of Catholic origin, but perhaps not.
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I’m pretty sure this came from the 1946 move It’s a Wonderful Life. In this movie Clarence has to do a good deed on earth to earn his wings and when an angel receives their wings this is heralded by a bell ringing somewhere on earth. At the end of the movie we have the line:
“Every time a bell rings an angel gets its wings”
 
But angels have been depicted with wings throughout Catholic history. Look at the paintings in any Cathedral.

I understand the concept and intent of both wings and the bells. I’m just not sure who threw those into the imagery. :o
 
Angel is the name of the office. Spirit is what they are in nature. It’s in the catechism, it’s explained pretty well in some depth.
 
There are angels, Archangels, some higher than others. (kinda like jobs or offices)
 
Well, only because I know that many Catholics already know this, I’ll explain;

An angel is an idea. It “earns its wings” when the idea actually does some good for someone. Its “wings” represent it being passed “through the air” between people due it being a good idea.

There are good ideas and bad ideas. Bad ideas are cast into Gehenna where they can help to torment the foolish. Good ideas are consistent with the Whole Spirit (Holy Spirit) or whole effort of Reality/God.

The word “angel” is a derivative of the word “angle”. It represents an angle or branch on the tree of all knowledge. The concept of the 2 words is identical. It is only due to their different use that they are spelled differently.

An “Archangel” is a higher ideal that leads to and supports many lesser ideas. The idea of Purpose leads to the concerns and issues of there being a good and a bad.

The con-man has an “angle” protecting his efforts. The saint has an “angel” protecting his efforts.

Ideas carry a message concerning Reality/God and thus are often depicted as messengers of/for God/Reality.
 
James_S_Saint said:
Well, only because I know that many Catholics already know this, I’ll explain;

An angel is an idea. It “earns its wings” when the idea actually does some good for someone. Its “wings” represent it being passed “through the air” between people due it being a good idea.

There are good ideas and bad ideas. Bad ideas are cast into Gehenna where they can help to torment the foolish. Good ideas are consistent with the Whole Spirit (Holy Spirit) or whole effort of Reality/God.

The word “angel” is a derivative of the word “angle”. It represents an angle or branch on the tree of all knowledge. The concept of the 2 words is identical. It is only due to their different use that they are spelled differently.

An “Archangel” is a higher ideal that leads to and supports many lesser ideas. The idea of Purpose leads to the concerns and issues of there being a good and a bad.

The con-man has an “angle” protecting his efforts. The saint has an “angel” protecting his efforts.

Ideas carry a message concerning Reality/God and thus are often depicted as messengers of/for God/Reality.
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Wow. Here’s the definition of angel. I know nothing about earning wings aside from “Merry Christmas Clarence!!!” outside of that, here’s the definition of angel in full.
  1. one of a class of spiritual beings; a celestial attendant of God. In medieval angelology, angels constituted the lowest of the nine celestial orders (seraphim, cherubim, thrones, dominations or dominions, virtues, powers, principalities or princedoms, archangels, and angels).
  2. a conventional representation of such a being, in human form, with wings, usually in white robes.
  3. a messenger, esp. of God.
  4. a person who performs a mission of God or acts as if sent by God: an angel of mercy.
  5. a person having qualities generally attributed to an angel, as beauty, purity, or kindliness.
  6. a person whose actions and thoughts are consistently virtuous.
  7. an attendant or guardian spirit.
  8. a deceased person whose soul is regarded as having been accepted into heaven.
  9. Informal. a person who provides financial backing for some undertaking, as a play or political campaign.
  10. an English gold coin issued from 1470 to 1634, varying in value from 6s. 8d. to 10s. and bearing on its obverse a figure of the archangel Michael killing a dragon.
  11. Slang. an image on a radar screen caused by a low-flying object, as a bird.
 
James_S_Saint said:
And to answer the OP question more directly;
A bad idea that serves a bad purpose, does not become a good idea serving a good purpose.
There is no “salvation”, but then there is no torment either. Angels do not suffer. They just do their thing where they are permitted to run free.
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I guess it was a good idea to place the question in the title. 😉

But is that really true, no torment? Why would the angels suffer no torment for their sin when non repentant mortals will burn forever? Seems like I remember reading something about the devil and his angles being thrown into the lake of fire after the last judgment Will they be provided asbestos underwear?
Bluegoat said:
Angels are not living in time. We can repent because our lives are spread out. Angels are immaterial and exist outside of time - their life is an eternal moment. The sum of what they are is encompassed in that moment.
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Best answer!* Chosen by OP*
 
pyro_alchemist said:
If I understand Catholic teaching correctly, the angels were given free will just like us and some of them chose to disobey God just like Adam and Eve. Why then, did God provide a plan of salvation for mankind and not for the fallen angels?
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Maybe he did, you should ask him…
 
pyro_alchemist said:
I guess it was a good idea to place the question in the title. 😉

But is that really true, no torment? Why would the angels suffer no torment for their sin when non repentant mortals will burn forever? Seems like I remember reading something about the devil and his angles being thrown into the lake of fire after the last judgment Will they be provided asbestos underwear?

Best answer!* Chosen by OP*
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How in the world is that the best answer? At that point, Angels are omnipresent, you might as well call them Gods themselves. How do you have a war with no time exactly? God has a conversation with an angel regarding Job (I don’t believe the original texts said it was Satan, but just an angel, not positive), how do you do that without time? I mean, I don’t think the omni’s make any sense even for God, but attributing them to more than one thing I can’t see as even logically possible.

PS: There is no literal lake of fire, that’s just scare tactics from the 14th century.
 
liquidpele said:
How in the world is that the best answer? At that point, Angels are omnipresent, you might as well call them Gods themselves. How do you have a war with no time exactly? God has a conversation with an angel regarding Job (I don’t believe the original texts said it was Satan, but just an angel, not positive), how do you do that without time? I mean, I don’t think the omni’s make any sense even for God, but attributing them to more than one thing I can’t see as even logically possible.

PS: There is no literal lake of fire, that’s just scare tactics from the 14th century.
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God is also outside of time. The same problems you describe apply to him. Typically, when there are Scriptural references to God doing something in time, changing his mind for example, we understand that as reflecting our human perceptions of his actions, not his own perception or knowledge.

Similarly, war is a human term and a human idea being applied to something that is only a bit like war as we understand it - a kind of violent conflict about fundamental things. But we don’t have much language actually dedicated to timeless concepts because it is not how we live. We perceive the conflict of good and evil as a kind of war, we perceive salvation as something which took time. For God (and the angels) that is not the case - the Fall and Salvation were accomplished together.

Angels are not like God just because they exist outside of time, although they are like God in that they exist outside of time. But they lack many of Gods other characteristics, most importantly, they are not self-existent.
 
pyro_alchemist said:
But is that really true, no torment? Why would the angels suffer no torment for their sin when non repentant mortals will burn forever? Seems like I remember reading something about the devil and his angles being thrown into the lake of fire after the last judgment Will they be provided asbestos underwear?
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Because of this;
James_S_Saint said:
Well, only because I know that many Catholics already know this, I’ll explain;

An angel is an idea. It “earns its wings” when the idea actually does some good for someone. Its “wings” represent it being passed “through the air” between people due it being a good idea.

There are good ideas and bad ideas. Bad ideas are cast into Gehenna where they can help to torment the foolish. Good ideas are consistent with the Whole Spirit (Holy Spirit) or whole effort of Reality/God.

The word “angel” is a derivative of the word “angle”. It represents an angle or branch on the tree of all knowledge. The concept of the 2 words is identical. It is only due to their different use that they are spelled differently.

An “Archangel” is a higher ideal that leads to and supports many lesser ideas. The idea of Purpose leads to the concerns and issues of there being a good and a bad.

The con-man has an “angle” protecting his efforts. The saint has an “angel” protecting his efforts.

Ideas carry a message concerning Reality/God and thus are often depicted as messengers of/for God/Reality.
Click to expand...
 
Bluegoat said:
God is also outside of time. The same problems you describe apply to him. Typically, when there are Scriptural references to God doing something in time, changing his mind for example, we understand that as reflecting our human perceptions of his actions, not his own perception or knowledge.

Similarly, war is a human term and a human idea being applied to something that is only a bit like war as we understand it - a kind of violent conflict about fundamental things. But we don’t have much language actually dedicated to timeless concepts because it is not how we live. We perceive the conflict of good and evil as a kind of war, we perceive salvation as something which took time. For God (and the angels) that is not the case - the Fall and Salvation were accomplished together.

Angels are not like God just because they exist outside of time, although they are like God in that they exist outside of time. But they lack many of Gods other characteristics, most importantly, they are not self-existent.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the clarification, but I personally think the idea is silly even when attributed to God. Is there scripture that supports God being “outside of time” or is this just a Catholic philosophical belief?
 
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