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Zundrah
Guest
Your bible says that a messiah would come. God promised us that a messiah would come… so why are you refusing him?
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Kaninchen
Guest
I’ve answered these questions.
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Zundrah
Guest
No you haven’t. All you have said to me is that you do not believe a word that the NT says but you haven’t told me WHY you do not accept him! Are you just having fun by playing games with me? …just please tell me why the jews did not accept him.
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Kaninchen
Guest
Yes, I have, it’s just that you don’t like the answer which is hardly my problem.
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Zundrah
Guest
Okay then, just show me the post where you “answered” this question.
…you just don’t like that you sins are already pardoned.
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gearhead
Guest
The fact that many people can become acquainted with Christianity and read the Bible but not come to that conclusion says to me that the matter’s not as clear-cut as you make out.
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Zundrah
Guest
What are you saying!?
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Kaninchen
Guest
If you ask a question, then you should listen to the answer, not just ‘stamp your feet’. It makes conversations much more fruitful.Okay then, just show me the post where you “answered” this question.
…you just don’t like that you sins are already pardoned.
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gearhead
Guest
I’m saying that many reasonable people have heard stories of the events described in the Gospels and decided that they don’t consider them believable. Some of these people are Jews.What are you saying!?
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Zundrah
Guest
Jerusalem decided to not follow the “Gods” of their ancesters but they chose to whorship and follow the One true and only God, the God of heaven. He who created us, He who watches us. He who loves us. He who placed us into a body of flesh. He who desires to recieve our souls back into his holy kingdom.
He came down and paid for all our sins, he then ascended back up home where he now waits to see us when we return to him. Amen, isn’t that beautiful? Doesn’t that make you happy? Are you now realieved to know that He loves, cherishes and adores you?
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Zundrah
Guest
This thread has not been fruitful…
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gearhead
Guest
If this were actually true, I’d consider it abhorrent, not beautiful.
In any case, how is this relevant? Are you arguing that the story’s so pretty that it must be true?
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Zundrah
Guest
No no no, I was just being silly obviously!
But anyway, (ahem) God did promise (in the bible) that he would send a messiah, this is why I need to know (out of curiousity) why the Jews (who were promised the messiah) didn’t accept him when he came. But anyway, the scriptures said that the poeple of that time would not accept him and eventually kill him. So… it is relevant.
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gearhead
Guest
Two ideas immediately spring to mind:
First, according to the Bible, God said that the messiah would be certain things, do certain things, and be accompanied by certain signs. Even going by the Gospel story, Jesus didn’t do all these things. Christians believe that Jesus will do all these things in the future; Jews don’t. Really, it only makes sense to believe that Jesus is the messiah if you’ve already decided that Jesus is the messiah.
Second, if the events in the Bible didn’t actually happen as described in the Bible, then it’s not surprising that Jews weren’t convinced. Personally, I think that the Gospel is most likely an accretion of myth around a person who actually existed but was a lot less spectacular than the Jesus of the Bible. I also think that it’s quite likely that the descriptions of him fulfilling prophecy were added later.
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Whitacre_Girl
Guest
Kaninchen:
Just a couple questions so I can understand where you are coming from.
Just a couple questions so I can understand where you are coming from.
- Why is the belief held that the New Testament books are fictitious? Which parts are seen as ficitious? History shows that there was a Jesus of Nazareth and that he did teach and do certain things which did cause an uprising and branch off of Judaism to Christianity. Do you reject all the things that he is recorded as having said? The miracles? The resurrection? Do you see the whole thing as made up and Jesus having never existed or more of a fanatisized story about a real man?
- How to modern Jews interpret the messianic prophecies that, since Jesus did not fulfill, remain unfulfilled?
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Zundrah
Guest
But you are an athiest so according to your beliefs even God is fictional?
Christ came, he died and left us. Jews know this, but they are stubborn and will not even accept what God said would happen!
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gearhead
Guest
Based on everything I’ve seen, it seems that way to me. However, it’s not like I go into every situation planning to reject evidence for God.
Frankly, if I found the Gospel story convincing, then I’d probably have to re-evaluate my beliefs about God. But I don’t find it convincing.
That sounds unreasonable. Do you really think that Jews know perfectly well that Christ died for them and that they need to accept him for their own salvation, but reject him out of some strange version of pride despite the fact that this imperils their souls?
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Zundrah
Guest
And exactly how is accepting him as their saviour going to put their lives in peril? If that is the case tyhen I am going to hell? Do not be so silly.
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gearhead
Guest
I think you misunderstood me.
If Jesus were really the Christ, then the Jews’ rejection of him would put their souls in peril. If they really do think that Jesus is the messiah, then being “stubborn” would just be stupid and self-destructive.
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Kaninchen
Guest
I don’t have a problem with whether Jesus existed, he may or may not but probably did. As to the rest - it’s just the Qur’an, Book of Mormon or any other book of ‘pious fictions’. You may find my responses on this thread (especially post #22) indicative of what I’m saying.
Try this site.
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