....why didn't jews accept Christ as the messia?

[Zundrah]

Zundrah, I am a Catholic like you and I have read most of the posts in this discussion. I would like to try to point out a few things that maybe you haven’t considered.

You have the gift of faith. You are blessed with that gift. But it comes at a cost. I don’t think you are getting what these most of these people are telling you.

They don’t believe it. Would you believe me if I told you that a giant green rabbit flew down from the sky and performed miracles and turned water into wine and gave herself up for the sins of mankind? I don’t think you would and of course you shouldn’t. I know that Jesus fulfilled some of the prophecies from the OT but the Jewish people were looking for a messiah that would rebuild Jerusalem. Jesus’ kingdom is not of this world and many Jewish people didn’t like that or understand that because of their belief in a messiah that would act in this world, now.

Even the twelve Apostles, who walked with Jesus and ate with Jesus and talked to Jesus face-to-face and saw the miracles He performed with their own eyes didn’t understand. One betrayed him; one denied him three times in a short period of time. Even after Jesus was resurrected they didn’t understand. And even after He ascended into heaven they hid in fear. It wasn’t until the Pentecost that they were given the gifts of strong faith and courage from the Holy Spirit. It turned them from cowering, terrified people into people who were willing to go out and spread the message and offer their lives up as martyrs if necessary. It wasn’t as clear-cut as you might think.

One who has unquestionable faith in God is blessed and cursed at the same time. It’s so obvious to you!! It’s so obvious that you cannot comprehend why anyone would have doubt and that is the curse. You can’t identify with those of us who don’t have that unquestioning faith. I wish I had your faith. I don’t. I struggle daily with faith issues. Sometimes I even wonder if God exists at all. I was an agnostic for many, many years and even now I struggle. I am a “Doubting Thomas.” I admit it. And I would bet that more Catholics struggle with their faith than those who don’t.

I hope this makes some sense to you. I think I can relate to your frustration simply because I personally know someone who also has that unquestioning faith and she has told me that sometimes it is very hard. I told her I was jealous of her. Now I’m not so jealous because I realized (not too long ago, like about yesterday ) that it isn’t easy even for one who is blessed with such faith.

If I had the faith that you have I think I would get down on my knees and thank God for this gift and pray for the people who don’t have it, whether they be Christian, Jewish, Quaker, Protestant, agnostic, atheist or whatever. Prayer is always good if it comes from someone with a pure heart.

The Jewish people are the Chosen People. He won’t abandon them. As Catholics we must respect them for Jesus was Jewish, too.

God bless!!

(…/)
(.v.v.)
…***…
(")…(")
How sweet of you, I’ll never forget this!

 

[chosen_people]

No my friend, it is a jewish problem. You killed what God promised you. But hey, lucky for you and us, you can still purchase his saving grace!

By “killed” I presume you are referring to the classic anti-Jewish claim of “Deicide” ( a pagan concept since a human being cannot kill God and since God being the ultimate eternal entity whose name is made up of the hebrew verbs for was is and will be cannot die; in this case tied with a further pagan concept of human sacrifice- as well as being factually incorrect because of method of execution - in as much as the person involved claimed to be God incarnated and called for the rejection of Torah the attributed Jewish crowd reaction is understandable and even mandated in the Tanach - however the attribution to “the Jews” somewhat strange as the Romans supposedly found the person a threat because of wide popularity - if he was so reviled by the entire Jewish population he posed no threat- also attribution of acts of individuals to an entire group through generations if valid would prove especially problematic to Catholics given their history of persecution of the Jews.

“lucky for you” presumably as this reduces “Jewish anti-Christian influence”?

 

[Zundrah]

By “killed” I presume you are referring to the classic anti-Jewish claim of “Deicide” ( a pagan concept since a human being cannot kill God and since God being the ultimate eternal entity whose name is made up of the hebrew verbs for was is and will be cannot die; in this case tied with a further pagan concept of human sacrifice- as well as being factually incorrect because of method of execution - in as much as the person involved claimed to be God incarnated and called for the rejection of Torah the attributed Jewish crowd reaction is understandable and even mandated in the Tanach - however the attribution to “the Jews” somewhat strange as the Romans supposedly found the person a threat because of wide popularity - if he was so reviled by the entire Jewish population he posed no threat- also attribution of acts of individuals to an entire group through generations if valid would prove especially problematic to Catholics given their history of persecution of the Jews.

“lucky for you” presumably as this reduces “Jewish anti-Christian influence”?

Ha ha, not lucky at all, no! Not if I am worshiping a “human” who “claimed” to be God and used him self as a human sacrifice to achieve absolutaly nothing at all!

So tell me, what will your coming messiah do now that the land he is suppose to come from has now gone into ashes?

 

[chosen_people]

Ha ha, not lucky at all, no! Not if I am worshiping a “human” who “claimed” to be God and used him self as a human sacrifice to achieve absolutaly nothing at all!

So tell me, what will your coming messiah do now that the land he is suppose to come from has now gone into ashes?

The question as to who will be the Messiah does not change the status of who was not the Messiah (see for instance the story of Shabbtai Zvi). Certainly whoever will be the Messiah will be able to overcome any obstacles put in their way. Lastly, you have not answered whether in your previous post you were referring to the Jews as guilty of deicide or of undue influence.

 

[Zundrah]

The question as to who will be the Messiah does not change the status of who was not the Messiah (see for instance the story of Shabbtai Zvi). Certainly whoever will be the Messiah will be able to overcome any obstacles put in their way. .

But then it will not be biblically accurate!

Lastly, you have not answered whether in your previous post you were referring to the Jews as guilty of deicide or of undue influence.

What? Do you mean “if” you actually killed him deliberately even though you knew he was the one? In that case yes and no because we are talking about thousands of people here. Some did and some didn’t do it deliberately. But his coming did threaten your economy eg the lack of animal sacrifices etc.

 

[StrawberryJam]

So, Christ is a fraud? Is that what Jews believe?

I wouldn’t state it that way myself.

I’d simply accept that Jewish believers don’t accept Christ as Messiah for the reasons I stated earlier. I’m not surprised by this. I can see that many christians are surprised that everyone is not a christian.

The Catholic Church really pulled a number on many Jews for a long time, and thankfully that is in the past where it belongs. John Paul II did much to try to mend these things, as if one man really could ever do that but he certainly tried to start the healing process.

 

[Zundrah]

I wouldn’t state it that way myself.

I’d simply accept that Jewish believers don’t accept Christ as Messiah for the reasons I stated earlier. I’m not surprised by this. I can see that many christians are surprised that everyone is not a christian.

The Catholic Church really pulled a number on many Jews for a long time, and thankfully that is in the past where it belongs. John Paul II did much to try to mend these things, as if one man really could ever do that but he certainly tried to start the healing process.

Strawberryjam, every time I begin to talk to you, you seem to run away!

…I can understand why there are jews who believe that Christ is not their messiah… I can also understand why they are still waiting for him to come… If I told you that I was your mother and yet you never felt my love, you would eventually say to me; “You’re not my mum, you don’t care about my suffering.”

Jews are like the abused child that keeps wondering where it’s God really is if they are suffering so much without his intervention and prevention.

A neglected dog will search for another owner.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Strawberryjam, every time I begin to talk to you, you seem to run away!

…I can understand why there are jews who believe that Christ is not their messiah… I can also understand why they are still waiting for him to come… If I told you that I was your mother and yet you never felt my love, you would eventually say to me; “You’re not my mum, you don’t care about my suffering.”

Jews are like the abused child that keeps wondering where it’s God really is if they are suffering so much without his intervention and prevention.

A neglected dog will search for another owner.

I’m here! Sometimes I spend a lot of time here, and other times I just can’t stay on threads long. Trying to do as much as I can when I am here.

I can’t comment on anything you posted here, because I don’t know if that is how a Jewish person feels about it. I am not sure that they consider God as distant and uncaring. I don’t think they mind waiting patiently, and I guess they feel that they will be suffering as chosen people of God. Just like christians believe they will be suffering and must prepare for martyrdom.

So, I don’t know what to say about what you wrote. I’m just an agnostic.

 

[Zundrah]

i’m just an agnostic.

no excuse!

 

[StrawberryJam]

no excuse!

I feel like I am in the army suddenly.

 

[Zundrah]

I feel like I am in the army suddenly.

You are Gods army! Against the jews! (LOL)

 

[Kaninchen]

You are Gods army! Against the jews! (LOL)

You need a hobby.

 

[chosen_people]

But then it will not be biblically accurate!

What? Do you mean “if” you actually killed him deliberately even though you knew he was the one? In that case yes and no because we are talking about thousands of people here. Some did and some didn’t do it deliberately. But his coming did threaten your economy eg the lack of animal sacrifices etc.

So if I understand correctly thousands of Jews through commission or omission joined together to carry out a Roman form of execution because the victim was endangering their economic livelihood. This is no doubt well documented in the Christian scriptures and I would appreciate it if you could give the citations or quotes supporting your statement.

 

[chosen_people]

You are Gods army! Against the jews! (LOL)

Are the Jews the enemy of God and if so how does he wage war against them? Who are God’s soldiers in this war? Do the Jews have allies in this war? Was the Shoah part of this war? Is persecution of Jews merely a part of carrying out God’s war against the Jews? Are Jews cursed by God and should they be made to suffer?

 

[Zundrah]

So if I understand correctly thousands of Jews through commission or omission joined together to carry out a Roman form of execution because the victim was endangering their economic livelihood.

They (by “they” I obviously mean those jews who did not accept him/ I don’t mean all jews but just those who denied he was He) were not prepared to accept him because to die for their sins was not enough. It seems that they wanted a poerful man to come and free them from the cluthches of Rome. To be again in their own land where they were dominant and not under rule, just like old times when God saved the people of Isreal/ Jews.

This is no doubt well documented in the Christian scriptures and I would appreciate it if you could give the citations or quotes supporting your statement.

No, no, no my friend, I’m not refering to the “Christian” bible at all. I was not going to use scriptures against you.

You need a hobby.

My darling, this is my hobby.

(…/)
(u.u)

Are the Jews the enemy of God?

Enemy? Well if you are going to plan to take people away from Christ by teaching them that they are doing wrong by believing in him… then yes, you are the enemy but not an enemy that needs to be destroyed though. That’s a bit extreme.

Who are God’s soldiers in this war?

Catholics, of course.

Do the Jews have allies in this war?

Yes, you have jehova witnesses and muslims on your side I guess because they too are anti-Christ.

Was the Shoah part of this war?

Don’t be so stupid! Do you really believe that your God would do that to you!?

Is persecution of Jews merely a part of carrying out God’s war against the Jews?

No.

Are Jews cursed by God and should they be made to suffer?

No no no.

Does that answer you well?

 

[Anna_Scott]

They (by “they” I obviously mean those jews who did not accept him/ I don’t mean all jews but just those who denied he was He) were not prepared to accept him because to die for their sins was not enough. It seems that they wanted a poerful man to come and free them from the cluthches of Rome. To be again in their own land where they were dominant and not under rule, just like old times when God saved the people of Isreal/ Jews.

No, no, no my friend, I’m not refering to the “Christian” bible at all. I was not going to use scriptures against you.

My darling, this is my hobby.

(…/)
(u.u)

Enemy? Well if you are going to plan to take people away from Christ by teaching them that they are doing wrong by believing in him… then yes, you are the enemy but not an enemy that needs to be destroyed though. That’s a bit extreme.

Catholics, of course.

Yes, you have jehova witnesses and muslims on your side I guess because they too are anti-Christ.

Don’t be so stupid! Do you really believe that your God would do that to you!?
No.
No no no.

Does that answer you well?

Zundrah:

You are young and enthusiastic about your faith. That is a good quality.

I would like to say that the reasons the Jews do not accept Christ are complicated, and I can see why they would not convert. Christians persecuted the Jews for centuries. Even verbal assaults on the forums are a type of persecution.

I have a Thread going: Crucifixion of Christ-Why Did He Have to Die
Link: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=5947762#post5947762

There is a vast difference between the Christian and Jewish understanding of sacrifice. Christianity hangs on the atonement of Christ. If you have time, check out the Thread.

Remember, we owe a great debt to the Jewish people. Salvation is of the Jews. Christ was a Jew. Understanding Judaism helps us find a deeper understanding of Christianity. Even if you do not agree with the Jewish posts, you can learn from them. We all can.

We are called to love one another. We are also called to pray for the peace of Israel. Peace be with you, my Christian friend.

In Christ,
Anna

 

[Zundrah]

Zundrah:

You are young and enthusiastic about your faith. That is a good quality.

I would like to say that the reasons the Jews do not accept Christ are complicated, and I can see why they would not convert. Christians persecuted the Jews for centuries. Even verbal assaults on the forums are a type of persecution.

I have a Thread going: Crucifixion of Christ-Why Did He Have to Die
Link: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=5947762#post5947762

There is a vast difference between the Christian and Jewish understanding of sacrifice. Christianity hangs on the atonement of Christ. If you have time, check out the Thread.

Remember, we owe a great debt to the Jewish people. Salvation is of the Jews. Christ was a Jew. Understanding Judaism helps us find a deeper understanding of Christianity. Even if you do not agree with the Jewish posts, you can learn from them. We all can.

We are called to love one another. We are also called to pray for the peace of Israel. Peace be with you, my Christian friend.

In Christ,
Anna

Yes I also understand why they killed him, why they hate him and why they curse him. But the jews of today are not the jews of the OT. They are a different clan altogether and should even have an entirely different religeous name rather than “Jews”. We owe nothing to the jews of today, only the jews of the past. Gods chosen people and chosen/ prepared nation.

lol - will com eonto your thread now.

 

[Anna_Scott]

Yes I also understand why they killed him, why they hate him and why they curse him. But the jews of today are not the jews of the OT. They are a different clan altogether and should even have an entirely different religeous name rather than “Jews”. We owe nothing to the jews of today, only the jews of the past. Gods chosen people and chosen/ prepared nation.

lol - will com eonto your thread now.

Zundrah:

What is the source of your ideas about the Jews? Your statements are rather disturbing.

Anna

 

[Kaninchen]

Zundrah:

What is the source of your ideas about the Jews? Your statements are rather disturbing.

Anna

Eventually, they give themselves away.

 

[Anna_Scott]

Are the Jews the enemy of God and if so how does he wage war against them? Who are God’s soldiers in this war? Do the Jews have allies in this war? Was the Shoah part of this war? Is persecution of Jews merely a part of carrying out God’s war against the Jews? Are Jews cursed by God and should they be made to suffer?

Chosen People:

I am saddened by some of the things my fellow Christians have said to you. I know that you are the chosen people of God.

Anna