Why different religions

[Servant19]

It seems difficult to accuse the Byzantines of not being Christ followers because they engaged in war. No doubt they engaged in a lot of unjust war, but also in a lot of Just war from the onslaught of the Persians and then eventually the Muslims. Yes the peaceful Muslims who relentlessly attacked Constantinople until it was theirs and it is now modern day turkey. So while I can agree to some extent that the old idea of a Christian empire like the Byzantines, did not conform itself to Christ, I cannot allow you to demean them by suggesting as whole their warfare was not justified or that somehow they were as a whole not Christian. Had the heads of states not defended themselves the west might have become islamified and Britain might be the modern day Iran, something I am sure you are quite grateful never happened.

But you speak of oneness and yet I have no idea what it means. You are constantly contradicting yourself saying: We are all one, so let’s all let go of that old religion and embrace this Persian guy instead. If we are already all one why do we need to embrace this Persian guy? How are we one when you will not accept the Eucharist? Will not accept Jesus and his resurrection? Will not become part of his body which is the church?

Define your oneness. Be specific. I am not a fan of mysticism beyond that of orthodoxy. Nor do I accept your interpretation of the Old or new testament.

Dear friend, I think it’s time you consider letting go of the “person” and look at the “teaching”…THE CORE TEACHING!!

Its Persian guy this, Arab guy that, body of Jesus here, and body of Ali Hussain there…look deeper my friend

Where is your depth, brother, or is it all about superficial facades?

.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Dear friend, I think it’s time you consider letting go of the “person” and look at the “teaching”…THE CORE TEACHING!!

Its Persian guy this, Arab guy that, body of Jesus here, and body of Ali Hussain there…look deeper my friend

Where is your depth, brother, or is it all about superficial facades?

.

Its superficial that I think Christ my supreme God, lord and ruler over my soul who created the universe and everything in it? Is that really a superficial difference?

If anyone is being superficial it is the bahai who say alot of nice sounding platitudes but whose theology is an incoherent mess of opinions.

 

[Servant19]

Its superficial that I think Christ my supreme God, lord and ruler over my soul who created the universe and everything in it? Is that really a superficial difference?

If anyone is being superficial it is the bahai who say alot of nice sounding platitudes but whose theology is an incoherent mess of opinions.

No I didn’t say that Ignatian. Please read deeper into it. You only made a superficial read of my post

.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

No I didn’t say that Ignatian. Please read deeper into it. You only made a superficial read of my post

.

I’m pretty sure you did say that. You are implying I am not understanding Christ and that I am not to consider his person? Would you not be forcing me to deny Christ then because Jesus seems to say that all reality revolves around him.

Why else does he challenge those to take up the cross and follow him? Or tells us to hate our families in order to be worthy of him? Why does his mere presence entail feasting over fasting? Why did the elements obey his word? Why did the father say to listen to the son who he loves?

His teachings force me to look at him and recognize him as Lord and God.

 

[PJF0808]

A very long post that shows you really care about getting closer to God. I pray you do come closer to the one true God.

 

[openmind77]

It seems difficult to accuse the Byzantines of not being Christ followers because they engaged in war. No doubt they engaged in a lot of unjust war, but also in a lot of Just war from the onslaught of the Persians and then eventually the Muslims. Yes the peaceful Muslims who relentlessly attacked Constantinople until it was theirs and it is now modern day turkey. So while I can agree to some extent that the old idea of a Christian empire like the Byzantines, did not conform itself to Christ, I cannot allow you to demean them by suggesting as whole their warfare was not justified or that somehow they were as a whole not Christian. Had the heads of states not defended themselves the west might have become islamified and Britain might be the modern day Iran, something I am sure you are quite grateful never happened.

But you speak of oneness and yet I have no idea what it means. You are constantly contradicting yourself saying: We are all one, so let’s all let go of that old religion and embrace this Persian guy instead. If we are already all one why do we need to embrace this Persian guy? How are we one when you will not accept the Eucharist? Will not accept Jesus and his resurrection? Will not become part of his body which is the church?

Define your oneness. Be specific. I am not a fan of mysticism beyond that of orthodoxy. Nor do I accept your interpretation of the Old or new testament.

I think what Daler means by Oneness is that all religions come from the same source - the one true God. The differences can be in interpretation or in beliefs, but we do all believe in a loving, merciful, forgiving God. The differences like being Trinitarian or not, do not matter that much because even Catholics believe that ultimately there is only One God. even polytheists like Hindus believe that ultimately there is only One Brahman.

I am not sure Daler is asking you to embrace Bahaullah - Jesus is sufficient for you for now.

Actually both Daler and I accept Jesus and his resurrection (although the interpretation may differ). However, there is no need for either of us to become part of the Church, I believe Jesus will accept us without our joining the Church (of course you may disagree).

So Oneness does not mean all religions are the same, it just means they come from the same source.

When the Christ Returns (which will happen soon in the next 2-3 years) all the differences between religions will be reconciled. (You should not count on the Christ agreeing with every Church dogma though)

 

[daler]

I think what Daler means by Oneness is that all religions come from the same source - the one true God. The differences can be in interpretation or in beliefs, but we do all believe in a loving, merciful, forgiving God. The differences like being Trinitarian or not, do not matter that much because even Catholics believe that ultimately there is only One God. even polytheists like Hindus believe that ultimately there is only One Brahman.

I am not sure Daler is asking you to embrace Bahaullah - Jesus is sufficient for you for now.

Actually both Daler and I accept Jesus and his resurrection (although the interpretation may differ). However, there is no need for either of us to become part of the Church, I believe Jesus will accept us without our joining the Church (of course you may disagree).

So Oneness does not mean all religions are the same, it just means they come from the same source.

When the Christ Returns (which will happen soon in the next 2-3 years) all the differences between religions will be reconciled. (You should not count on the Christ agreeing with every Church dogma though)

openmind,

. Thank you for a beautiful post. Would that we could all come beneath the shelter of the same Source of Divine Inspiration and recognize that the wells are filled by the same water, gushing up in various places, and at different times.

. One sees people who are thirsty. It is the same thirst. One sees people who are hungry. It is the same hunger.

. On the way to the well, some men bicker. On the way to the table, some men fight. Did God not prepare these various wells for all who thirst? Did He not prepare a Feast for all who hunger?

. I was reading the Bhagavad-Gita the other day. How magnificent a story! What divine wisdom wells out of that Holy Book! It is truly inspired, and greatly appreciated over history by many great men (and women), who glean from its pages the Call of God to the people of that land, and elsewhere.

. God is the All-Bountiful. He does not withhold His bounty from anyone. He is the All-Merciful. He does not withhold His mercy from anyone. How could an All-Merciful God, Who is the All-Bountiful, then withhold His guidance from them who have been invited to His Table of Mercy and Bounty?

. Though the hands be different from the feet, and the heart be different from the lungs, or the head be different from stomach, still these various limbs and organs are part of one and the same body. How wonderful when that body is in perfect coordination and harmony! How tragic when it is divided against its own self, confused, and disabled.

. Is this not the story of the field of Kuru, between the Kauravas and Pandavas? When the heart, once fully developed, does not recognize the lungs as its partner, or the hands do not accept the journey of the feet, and the head will not accept the food of the stomach, because each does not realize the true oneness of the body, of which all are part, illness and death ensue.

. Thus, the various developed organs of the systems of belief, and the cells which are members of those organs, whether the people of Jewish (hands) or Christian (feet), Buddhist (heart) and Muslim (lungs), Hindu (head) and Zoroastrian (stomach) are not separate entities, but destined to work together as parts of a greater whole. This is what is meant by the oneness of humanity.

. “Nothing short of the unity of the entire human race will suffice to heal the ills which afflict mankind.” Baha’u’llah
.

 

[tonyfish58]

So if I have your thought down right it goes something like this: “we are all one, we just don’t recognise it”. Except that your oneness cannot be defined. What makes us one exactly? Obviously we are one human race, but we are not one community, we are not one system of believers, we are not one church and we are certainly not one in spirit.

What makes us one exactly? - We are all given Life at conception by God, it is God that gives our Material Body its Soul.

God’s Message to Mankind is one in Purpose

It is us that makes all the differences.

It is that easy, all we have to do is look for it

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

What makes us one exactly? - We are all given Life at conception by God, it is God that gives our Material Body its Soul.

God’s Message to Mankind is one in Purpose

It is us that makes all the differences.

It is that easy, all we have to do is look for it

God Bless and Regards Tony

How does an individual’s life make them one with all? How do you reconcile fact that if your God has a purpose for mankind then mankind is not following that one purpose and is therefore divided.

I am not seeing anything clear here, only the vaguely mystical things you believe. I have pointed out general contradictions and instead of recognizing them, what is your solution? Basically it’s “abandon your ideas and follow mine.”

You bahai are not making any sense.

 

[Servant19]

Ignatian, I think the wonderful insights given by openmind here is the
answer to your questions:

I think what Daler means by Oneness is that all religions come from the same source - the one true God. The differences can be in interpretation or in beliefs, but we do all believe in a loving, merciful, forgiving God. The differences like being Trinitarian or not, do not matter that much because even Catholics believe that ultimately there is only One God. even polytheists like Hindus believe that ultimately there is only One Brahman.

I am not sure Daler is asking you to embrace Bahaullah - Jesus is sufficient for you for now.

Actually both Daler and I accept Jesus and his resurrection (although the interpretation may differ). However, there is no need for either of us to become part of the Church, I believe Jesus will accept us without our joining the Church (of course you may disagree).

So Oneness does not mean all religions are the same, it just means they come from the same source.

When the Christ Returns (which will happen soon in the next 2-3 years) all the differences between religions will be reconciled. (You should not count on the Christ agreeing with every Church dogma though)

.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Ignatian, I think the wonderful insights given by openmind here is the
answer to your questions:

.

Except its not a difference in merely interpretation, its a totally different system of belief which contradicts the other. I have provided examples beofre and I am exasperated at the bahai’s consistent attempts in ignoring these points and insisting nontheless we are one.

We are not one by virtue of worshipping a different God. Do you worship Jesus? Do you confess the trinity? (You know what I mean by these words, do not twist them and pretend to agree with them based on how you use these words)

 

[Servant19]

Except its not a difference in merely interpretation, its a totally different system of belief which contradicts the other. I have provided examples beofre and I am exasperated at the bahai’s consistent attempts in ignoring these points and insisting nontheless we are one.

We are not one by virtue of worshipping a different God. Do you worship Jesus? Do you confess the trinity? (You know what I mean by these words, do not twist them and pretend to agree with them based on how you use these words)

No but we worship God.

You INTERPRET Jesus as being God
I INTERPRET it as Jesus being epistemologically God.

It’s a difference in interpretation, not a different belief system based on FACT. The Apostles and the Fathers interpreted. Even amongst the Apostles there was conflicting interpretations at first.

.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

No but we worship God.

You INTERPRET Jesus as being God
I INTERPRET it as Jesus being epistemologically God.

It’s a difference in interpretation, not a different belief system based on FACT. The Apostles and the Fathers interpreted. Even amongst the Apostles there was conflicting interpretations at first.

.

My interpretation forces me to worship Jesus as God, the Holy spirit as God and the Father as God.

Do we have the same God? It would not seem so. Do we have the same Jesus even? The Jesus you embrace did not rise from the dead (do not deliberately misinterpret that statement, you know what I mean) but remained dead in the ground. The Jesus you worship doesn’t draw attention to himself, he is not needed for salvation once a new prophet comes along.

The Jesus I worship is sufficient for all time and there is nothing lacking in his promise.

So tell me how we are one based on this reality.

 

[tonyfish58]

My interpretation forces me to worship Jesus as God, the Holy spirit as God and the Father as God.

Do we have the same God? It would not seem so. Do we have the same Jesus even? The Jesus you embrace did not rise from the dead (do not deliberately misinterpret that statement, you know what I mean) but remained dead in the ground. The Jesus you worship doesn’t draw attention to himself, he is not needed for salvation once a new prophet comes along.

The Jesus I worship is sufficient for all time and there is nothing lacking in his promise.

So tell me how we are one based on this reality.

Because one has their own reality does not take away from the Oneness and unity of Creation, the fact it comes From the One and Only God.

This has been discussed enough for it to be accepted or not

We are all connected and the actions we take as an individual attribute to the progress of the whole.

A good Gardener looks after all the plants of His Garden and gives them all the nourishment they need, to concentrate on one plant may make that plant Flourish but it is at the detriment to the remainder of the garden.

God Bless and regards Tony

 

[PJF0808]

There are several religions because Satan misled people to push them away from God.the people who follow thes misguided or watered down faiths are not evil but are victims. The one true faith is the Roman Catholic faith.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Because one has their own reality does not take away from the Oneness and unity of Creation, the fact it comes From the One and Only God.

This has been discussed enough for it to be accepted or not

We are all connected and the actions we take as an individual attribute to the progress of the whole.

A good Gardener looks after all the plants of His Garden and gives them all the nourishment they need, to concentrate on one plant may make that plant Flourish but it is at the detriment to the remainder of the garden.

God Bless and regards Tony

It is extremely difficult for me to accept that when you won’t tell me what this oneness is. It said by another that the oneness is in religions being manifested by God, yet those religions contradict each other. What about religions which were not manifested by your God? Like the Mormon religion? That cannot fit into the oneness since that was not a religion your God produced.

You seem to be wanting to imply all sorts of different senses of oneness and then conflate them as it is the same thing. Its like saying that because there is one human race, there must be one universal consciousnesses in the human race, yet that is clearly not true and in fact is a fallacy. Each individual has a mind which conflicts be it on big or small matters with other individuals.

Once again, your ideas make no sense and cannot be reconciled with the real world. What good does it do you to tell me we are all one, yet you will not worship the God I worship, you will not go tot he church I go to, partake of the same eucharist as I do and etc? That I will not go to the temple you go to, the services you go to, or pray the prayers you do?

Quite frankly I think the bahai want to believe in unity so badly they are willing to employ any language in order to convince themselves of it, yet contradict themselves at the same time by saying we need to be united. Are we united or are we disunited? We cannot be both in the general sense at the same time.

 

[TruthBearer]

Because people are many and have different thinking about God.

Very true

 

[daler]

Because one has their own reality does not take away from the Oneness and unity of Creation, the fact it comes From the One and Only God.

This has been discussed enough for it to be accepted or not

We are all connected and the actions we take as an individual attribute to the progress of the whole.

A good Gardener looks after all the plants of His Garden and gives them all the nourishment they need, to concentrate on one plant may make that plant Flourish but it is at the detriment to the remainder of the garden.

God Bless and regards Tony

Well put, Tony.

What comes to mind is how children within a single family tend to argue and fight over toys, attention, etc. Each child is loved by the parents, who do their best to be fair. Yet because they are children, they are destined to act like children, each thinking of themselves as “special”, or that “I” am the best!

Tommy Smothers used to say to his brother: “Mom always liked you best.”

So this is what I see extended to conversations about religions. All too often, a continuation of the stage of “I”, or “me”, and “mine” seem to surface. An alternative to this would be “we”, and “our”.

God permits us to remain in the “I, me, mine” stage as long as we prefer, but invites us to enter the world of we, whenever we are ready. It is just such a stage that mankind has been presented with.

Similar to the famed developmental psychologist Jean Piaget, who demonstrated four distinct stages of childhood development, it could be suggested that there are distinct stages of spiritual development as well, ascending from a world revolving around the self, to that of the whole. Such a view may well be challenging to those who are contented with whatever assures them of their current level of comfort, for whenever we move beyond any sphere of the womb we are in, there is pain involved, as well as fear.

Yet when we advance, stage by stage, into biologically or spiritually higher levels, we are assured of something far greater than that state of being from which we have emerged.

. “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of heaven.” Jesus, John 3:3

. "And He called a child to Himself and set him before them, and said, "Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. "Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.… Matthew 18:2,3,4

Hence, even as Jesus alluded to, there is a “process” involved in spirituality, that of becoming humble and childlike, as opposed to clinging all the time to proud assertions related to the self.
.

.

 

[tonyfish58]

It is extremely difficult for me to accept that when you won’t tell me what this oneness is. It said by another that the oneness is in religions being manifested by God, yet those religions contradict each other. What about religions which were not manifested by your God? Like the Mormon religion? That cannot fit into the oneness since that was not a religion your God produced.

You seem to be wanting to imply all sorts of different senses of oneness and then conflate them as it is the same thing. Its like saying that because there is one human race, there must be one universal consciousnesses in the human race, yet that is clearly not true and in fact is a fallacy. Each individual has a mind which conflicts be it on big or small matters with other individuals.

Once again, your ideas make no sense and cannot be reconciled with the real world. What good does it do you to tell me we are all one, yet you will not worship the God I worship, you will not go tot he church I go to, partake of the same eucharist as I do and etc? That I will not go to the temple you go to, the services you go to, or pray the prayers you do?

Quite frankly I think the bahai want to believe in unity so badly they are willing to employ any language in order to convince themselves of it, yet contradict themselves at the same time by saying we need to be united. Are we united or are we disunited? We cannot be both in the general sense at the same time.

IgnatianPhilo - I think we have said this many times, but I know re my search for Faith that you read over and over the Holy Word and do not see the message behind it and then one day you say, Wow that is amazing! It is not always apparent as to what the Word Means. There is only contradiction if that is want you want to find!

I have read the Kitáb-i-Íqán quite a few times, every time I read it I find a lot, lot more!

You have to ask God - It is simple as that. If one asks God in all sincerity, as you know Ones Prayer are answered

We have told you what this Unity is, many times There are millions practicing this unity and the numbers are rapidly multiplying.

It is like Christ said, look for the Good in Everyone. Thus it is the same with Religion. If you concentrate on the good, the negative soon dissipates. Feed the Fire it gets Hotter and Brighter. Look for the Light not the Darkness and soon the World is another place.

We have to do this also in our everyday lives. We must moderate our Entertainment and only partake of that which is directed to the divine and shun all else. How many can do this these days, how many watch TV full of the darkness?

IgnatianPhilo - We are all united in Spirit and we can all uplift each other to greater heights. May God enable us to achieve this goal - Regards Tony

 

[tonyfish58]

. “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of heaven.” Jesus, John 3:3

. "And He called a child to Himself and set him before them, and said, "Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. "Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.… Matthew 18:2,3,4

Hence, even as Jesus alluded to, there is a “process” involved in spirituality, that of becoming humble and childlike, as opposed to clinging all the time to proud assertions related to the self.

Great quotes, Dale .

This is the secret - Learn as a child that has a quench for knowledge, but no per-conceived ideas!

God Bless all and Regards Tony