Animals suffer for the same reason that big rocks break into little rocks. It’s part of the mechanism, the mechanical action, of the universe, which was made entirely for our benefit.
yup… so you believe God Called all His creation beautiful but with the intention for them to suffer regardless of Adam and Eve…? bummer…Animals suffer for the same reason that big rocks break into little rocks. It’s part of the mechanism, the mechanical action, of the universe, which was made entirely for our benefit.
The only suffering that IS actual suffering is the suffering of persons.
Animals are not persons.
What seems to be animals suffering is merely “rocks banging together”.
When we can alleviate the (apparent) suffering of animals, that “suffering” was put there so that those persons who could relieve that “suffering” would be able to practice “relieving of suffering” without having to have actual persons suffer.
Any questions?
:shamrock2:
Animals don’t actually suffer.
:bigyikes:Animals suffer for the same reason that big rocks break into little rocks. It’s part of the mechanism, the mechanical action, of the universe, which was made entirely for our benefit.
The only suffering that IS actual suffering is the suffering of persons.
Animals are not persons.
What seems to be animals suffering is merely “rocks banging together”.
When we can alleviate the (apparent) suffering of animals, that “suffering” was put there so that those persons who could relieve that “suffering” would be able to practice “relieving of suffering” without having to have actual persons suffer.
Any questions?
:shamrock2:
You’re not supporting your name sake very well but aside from that;
Man learning from the (apparent) suffering of animals is not the primary reason for animals (apparently) suffering.You’re not supporting your name sake very well but aside from that;
I agree with the “no resultant greater good” part but man would never have needed any such lesson in regard to suffering had it not been for the fall… IMO
But I don’t believe based on Scripture such was to be before the Fall of Adam and Eve. There is nothing in Genesis regarding the pleasure of creation that God so received from His work that suggests the need for the mechanism you speak of and I imagine you refer to the life or animal chain. Suffering was not part of creation; it was a part of the disobedience. All that God created was “Beautiful” as He commited it. God would not create any living thing to suffer needlessly and there was no need before the fall.Man learning from the (apparent) suffering of animals is not the primary reason for animals (apparently) suffering.
The primary reason is because animals are part of the “mechanism” of the universe (whether the fallen universe or the unfallen universe), and part of that mechanism is that animals are food, and “accident victims”.
:shamrock2:
So,nobody cares what the Pope has to say about it?
what do you mean nobody… I’m in full agreement. You should read about creation on my web site…
I bookmarked it.( I thought I was cool because I had a mySpace page
)Animal “suffering” is not SUFFERING.
They DON’T suffer! They are food or “accident” victims, both before and after the fall.
So by that same reasoning, would you also agree that homo neanderthalis, erectus, heidelbergensis, and all the australopithicenes and other archaic homo sapiens did not know suffering and pain either?
They were persons. Probably.
If by persons you mean homo sapiens, modern humans, then no they weren’t.
By “persons” I mean persons. Descendants of Adam and Eve.
Making fire, tools, burying the dead or twisting knobs on an assembly-line are not determiners of whether a being is a person or not.
Because they had thumbs and were cold?
Do beavers make little “river houses” because some Adambeaver was given the “forbidden trout” by his Evebeaver?
Yes. Problem solved,… except in your hyperactive mind.
I’m sorry, I thought that Adm and Eve lived in nakedness until they ate of the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge. Then afterwards they covered themselves. Is this not true?
What we have here is a conceptual claim. All hominids (existing and extinct) are part of the Animal kingdom. So, yes there were animals, and so are we.Were those “species” you mentioned animals or persons?
I don’t know. But it doesn’t matter. Persons suffer. Animals don’t.
They suffered, or not, depending on what they actually were. End of “argument”.