Why do animals suffer?

[That_one_guy]

Thank you so very much.

You are welcome.I know it is a formula.But,I thought it might be a good link.The Fransiscans will bless your kitty freind if you take him/her to them.

 

[CatsAndDogs]

paws4prayer.com/animalsinheaven.html

Pope John Paul II declared that animals have souls.

In what document did John Paul II say this?

This is as close as I could get to a source document (19Jan1990GenAudience). Unfortunately, I speak neither italian nor spanish.

Can we find an english translation of what was*** actually*** said?

This is a googling of “John Paul animals have souls”.

While I agree that animals have “animal souls”, I would be surprised if the Church actually says that “animal souls” are fuctionally equivalent to human souls.

Let’s find out what the Church REALLY knows to be the truth, shall we?

(( I KNOW that Fr. Pacwa does NOT believe that animals have “souls which get to heaven”, by the way. I’ll take his understanding over ANY opinion from “animal rights sentimentalists” any day, by the way. ))

EDIT: A thread of relevance: Do Animals have souls?.

Now, while I do not believe that animals have souls which “get them to heaven”, I do believe that my dogs will be with me (when I choose for them to be so) in heaven.

My dogs are “machines”. They are non-person animate creatures, put here for our benefit. When in heaven (IF in heaven!) I will be able to “sub-create” my “mechanical” dogs, by way of our heavenly “preternatural gifts” in heaven, and they will be with me.

That is how my dogs will be with me, should I want them there, in heaven while not “giving” my dogs that which they don’t possess (an immortal soul).

To “give” animals an “immortal soul” is a sentimental “misconception” which has the effect of clouding the true meaning of what it means to be human and why we should not “over-empathize” with animals.

:shamrock2:

 

[That_one_guy]

In what document did John Paul II say this?

This is as close as I could get to a source document (19Jan1990GenAudience). Unfortunately, I speak neither italian nor spanish.

Can we find an english translation of what what actually said?

This is a googling of “John Paul animals have souls”.

While I agree that animals have “animal souls”, I would be surprised if the Church actually says that “animal souls” are fuctionally equivalent to human souls.

Let’s find out what the Church REALLY knows to be the truth, shall we?

(( I KNOW that Fr. Pacwa does NOT believe that animals have “souls which get to heaven”, by the way. I’ll take his understanding over ANY opinion from “animal rights sentimentalists” any day, by the way. ))

EDIT: A thread of relevance: Do Animals have souls?.

:shamrock2:

from this link

goveg.com/f-popejohnpaulii.asp

In 1990, His Holiness proclaimed that “the animals possess a soul and men must love and feel solidarity with our smaller brethren.” He went on to say that all animals are “fruit of the creative action of the Holy Spirit and merit respect” and that they are “as near to God as men are.” Animal lovers everywhere were overjoyed!

 

[CatsAndDogs]

from this link

goveg.com/f-popejohnpaulii.asp

In 1990, His Holiness proclaimed that “the animals possess a soul and men must love and feel solidarity with our smaller brethren.” He went on to say that all animals are “fruit of the creative action of the Holy Spirit and merit respect” and that they are “as near to God as men are.” Animal lovers everywhere were overjoyed!

This is the result of that link:

Service Unavailable
The server is temporarily unable to service your request. Please try again later.

Check out the “server” of that link:

goveg.com/ !

PeopleEatingTastyAnimals!

Thanks for the “unbiased” thoroughly Catholic source, my friend!

:shamrock2:

 

[cathybramble]

This is the result of that link:

Service Unavailable
The server is temporarily unable to service your request. Please try again later.

Check out the “server” of that link:

goveg.com/ !

PeopleEatingTastyAnimals!

Thanks for the “unbiased” thoroughly Catholic source, my friend!

:shamrock2:

i don’t think peta made it up. if so, then it should be easy enough to find a denial of the quote from the vatican.

it is referenced here also:
catholicireland.net/pages/index.php?nd=54&art=129

 

[That_one_guy]

This is the result of that link:

Service Unavailable
The server is temporarily unable to service your request. Please try again later.

Check out the “server” of that link:

goveg.com/ !

PeopleEatingTastyAnimals!

Thanks for the “unbiased” thoroughly Catholic source, my friend!

:shamrock2:

Whatever…

You asked for an english translation.It was the best I could do.
sheesh!
some people…I tell ya.

 

[cathybramble]

Whatever…

You asked for an english translation.It was the best I could do.
sheesh!
some people…I tell ya.

hopefully someone who is not on his ignore list will give him the link i posted to catholicireland.net. that one should be catholic and unbiased enough. or at least not inclined to twist the words of big Papa JP2

catholicireland.net/pages/index.php?nd=54&art=129

 

[That_one_guy]

hopefully someone who is not on his ignore list will give him the link i posted to catholicireland.net. that one should be catholic and unbiased enough. or at least not inclined to twist the words of big Papa JP2

catholicireland.net/pages/index.php?nd=54&art=129

Good show ol’ girl!
Just remember.Wrong people are entitled to their opinion,too!

:kissme:

 

[RosalieM]

Pope John Paul II did say that animals have souls. Try Zenit, the Vatican website if you can’t find it by google. Although Google does come up with a wealth of information on the topic with a few key words.
I frankly don’t care what Fr. Pacwa said about animals not going to heaven. He doesn’t know. I respect Fr. Pacwa and many others who hold the same point of view; but beg to differ because I believe that God can do anything and I am praying to God. He can reconstruct a soul. Fr. Benedict Groeschel said “anything that is good and beautiful and gives you joy on this earth will be with you in heaven.”
There always has to be someone who casts a damper on the love of God’s creatures in threads that deal with animals. I was waiting for it and here it is. I won’t come back to this thread and am unsubscribing. When people get aggressive, count me out.
God Bless.

 

[buffalo]

So, you think that every creature (human and otherwise) has it’s own soul?

Please research “soul”.

Best to you.

:shamrock2:

Catholic teaching is all lving things have a soul including plants. The soul is what animates the living.

The difference is man has an immortal soul. Plants and animals have mortal souls.

 

[That_one_guy]

Catholic teaching is all lving things have a soul including plants. The soul is what animates the living.

The difference is man has an immortal soul. Plants and animals have mortal souls.

Buffalo,You seem to have a grasp. Maybe you can help me out on this thread…

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=293313

 

[cathybramble]

Pope John Paul II did say that animals have souls. Try Zenit, the Vatican website if you can’t find it by google. Although Google does come up with a wealth of information on the topic with a few key words.
I frankly don’t care what Fr. Pacwa said about animals not going to heaven. He doesn’t know. I respect Fr. Pacwa and many others who hold the same point of view; but beg to differ because I believe that God can do anything and I am praying to God. He can reconstruct a soul. Fr. Benedict Groeschel said “anything that is good and beautiful and gives you joy on this earth will be with you in heaven.”
There always has to be someone who casts a damper on the love of God’s creatures in threads that deal with animals. I was waiting for it and here it is. I won’t come back to this thread and am unsubscribing. When people get aggressive, count me out.
God Bless.

don’t leave rosalie :bighanky: i’ll be nice. plus… if you disagree with some people here they will just ignore you anyway

 

[That_one_guy]

Catholic teaching is all lving things have a soul including plants. The soul is what animates the living.

The difference is man has an immortal soul. Plants and animals have mortal souls.

from Strongs Concordance
blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5315&t=KJV

1. soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion

a) that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man

b) living being

c) living being (with life in the blood)

d) the man himself, self, person or individual

e) seat of the appetites

f) seat of emotions and passions

g) activity of mind
from the Hebrew nephesh

 

[twb1621]

Buffalo,You seem to have a grasp. Maybe you can help me out on this thread…

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=293313

Hey TOG, whats going on, the thread is alive again?
you should have called me…

 

[cathybramble]

In what document did John Paul II say this?

This is as close as I could get to a source document (19Jan1990GenAudience). Unfortunately, I speak neither italian nor spanish.

Can we find an english translation of what was*** actually*** said?

This is a googling of “John Paul animals have souls”.

While I agree that animals have “animal souls”, I would be surprised if the Church actually says that “animal souls” are fuctionally equivalent to human souls.

Let’s find out what the Church REALLY knows to be the truth, shall we?

(( I KNOW that Fr. Pacwa does NOT believe that animals have “souls which get to heaven”, by the way. I’ll take his understanding over ANY opinion from “animal rights sentimentalists” any day, by the way. ))

EDIT: A thread of relevance: Do Animals have souls?.

Now, while I do not believe that animals have souls which “get them to heaven”, I do believe that my dogs will be with me (when I choose for them to be so) in heaven.

My dogs are “machines”. They are non-person animate creatures, put here for our benefit. When in heaven (IF in heaven!) I will be able to “sub-create” my “mechanical” dogs, by way of our heavenly “preternatural gifts” in heaven, and they will be with me.

That is how my dogs will be with me, should I want them there, in heaven while not “giving” my dogs that which they don’t possess (an immortal soul).

To “give” animals an “immortal soul” is a sentimental “misconception” which has the effect of clouding the true meaning of what it means to be human and why we should not “over-empathize” with animals.

:shamrock2:

i always thought heaven was about being with God, and that is how we will find supreme and eternal joy. not about receiving gifts that allow us to re-construct realities from our previous and incomplete existence on earth with mechanical dogs.

 

[That_one_guy]

Hey TOG, whats going on, the thread is alive again?
you should have called me…

:imsorry:
How insensitive of me!

kpeople: HEY!twb!!!The threads kicking again!!!

 

[That_one_guy]

i always thought heaven was about being with God, and that is how we will find supreme and eternal joy. not about receiving gifts that allow us to re-construct realities from our previous and incomplete existence on earth with mechanical dogs.

Sounds sorta mormonish to me…

 

[That_one_guy]

i always thought heaven was about being with God, and that is how we will find supreme and eternal joy. not about receiving gifts that allow us to re-construct realities from our previous and incomplete existence on earth with mechanical dogs.

Sounds like mormonism to me.

 

[twb1621]

:imsorry:
How insensitive of me!

kpeople: HEY!twb!!!The threads kicking again!!!

thanks bro, I liked this thread too. I’ll be back. PM me if you need anything in the mean time… Going home…

 

[That_one_guy]

Pope John Paul II did say that animals have souls. Try Zenit, the Vatican website if you can’t find it by google. Although Google does come up with a wealth of information on the topic with a few key words.
I frankly don’t care what Fr. Pacwa said about animals not going to heaven. He doesn’t know. I respect Fr. Pacwa and many others who hold the same point of view; but beg to differ because I believe that God can do anything and I am praying to God. He can reconstruct a soul. Fr. Benedict Groeschel said “anything that is good and beautiful and gives you joy on this earth will be with you in heaven.”
There always has to be someone who casts a damper on the love of God’s creatures in threads that deal with animals. I was waiting for it and here it is. I won’t come back to this thread and am unsubscribing. When people get aggressive, count me out.
God Bless.

:tsktsk: Now see what you’ve gone and done!?
And I LIKED RosalieM !!!