Why do believers use one set of rules for Humanity and another set of rules for God?

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Yeah but how many die cause God whips out His Angel of Death to slaughter them.

You gotta look at this through perspective of Baby:

If you are a fetus: you are innocent, you are being killed because of a decision the pregnant mother is making.

If you are a firstborn infant in Egypt: you are innocent, you are being killed because of a decision Pharaoh made.
I guess I am a bit slow tonight because I don’t see the problem. It is God’s decision. He gives, he takes away.

I suppose I can see how the baby will think it is unfair to die because of someone else’s decision. But show me where we have ever been promised a fair life?

Why does the number of deaths matter?

I’m not trying to be difficult- I just don’t understand your point.
 
Just focus on the theme of the thread: Use of one set of rules for God and another for us mere mortals. I am not saying that God has no right to deviate from the rules we’re are bound to follow, but that these deviations exist.

If I were to kill a baby in order to make a point, I would get locked up.
 
The problem with the 10 plagues and the captivity is that it shows that God is actively involved in human history. You would expect the same to happen today. But when you question Christians about this, all you get are excuses pretty much.
Here is a frightening true story from our century. If you want you can chalk it up to co-incidence in a sort of Pharaoh-like way. Back in the 1940’s a Catholic laywoman named Catherine Doherty was running a soup kitchen. In her book Not Without Parables she relates the following incident (I will have to paraphrase as I can’t find the book at the moment). One day a fellow burst into the soup kitchen and declared to the homeless men that there was no God. He put teeth into his claim by challenging God to strike him dead that very day. Catherine and the homeless guys were quite unnerved by this but carried on in a rather pensive mood. Sometime before midnight this fellow had a massive coronary and fell down dead. This took everybody by surprise and caused a great deal of alarm. Catherine relates that the men who observed this, who were not that religious, began attending mass and receiving the sacraments with much greater frequency.
 
Here is a frightening true story from our century. If you want you can chalk it up to co-incidence in a sort of Pharaoh-like way. Back in the 1940’s a Catholic laywoman named Catherine Doherty was running a soup kitchen. In her book Not Without Parables she relates the following incident (I will have to paraphrase as I can’t find the book at the moment). One day a fellow burst into the soup kitchen and declared to the homeless men that there was no God. He put teeth into his claim by challenging God to strike him dead that very day. Catherine and the homeless guys were quite unnerved by this but carried on in a rather pensive mood. Sometime before midnight this fellow had a massive coronary and fell down dead. This took everybody by surprise and caused a great deal of alarm. Catherine relates that the men who observed this, who were not that religious, began attending mass and receiving the sacraments with much greater frequency.
See know when a Muslim tries to do that:kill a blasphemer who challengers there God. We throw him in Guantanamo. But when GOd does it, we have a nifty chain letter.
 
Why do we make a loud noise about abortion if the baby is just gonna be in heaven anyways?
That’s why I said “more than likely.” We trust the unbaptized to God’s Mercy.

P.S. I’m a girl and like to believe those babies get to go to heaven. I realize this might not be the case but I can hope.
 
Just focus on the theme of the thread: Use of one set of rules for God and another for us mere mortals. I am not saying that God has no right to deviate from the rules we’re are bound to follow, but that these deviations exist.

If I were to kill a baby in order to make a point, I would get locked up.
Ahhh, I see.

Well, I agree with you that there are different rules. Mainly, God makes the rules. 🙂
 
Yet these are the same people who are unwilling to listen to Muslims on their explanation of seemingly brutal verses in the Quran. It’s a case of “one rule for us, and another rule for others”.
:
We don’t accept the authority of the Quran, just as you don’t accept the authority of the Bible. So we don’t listen to them, you don’t listen to us. It is all very Zen. 🙂

(Just kidding)
 
This is a thread asking why believers use one set of rules for Humanity, and another set of rules for God. I’m going to list the inconsistencies below:

Lying: "“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened” (Matthew 7:7-8).
Of course, virtually everyone knows the above biblical verse is not true. Those who believe try and “worm their way out” by saying that a prayer is dependent on God’s will, and it is ultimately God’s will that is done. But nowhere in these verses, or those to follow, does it suggest that an answered prayer is dependent on God’s will. This amounts to lying by omission - lying by deliberately leaving out a crucial truth. This is punishable by law in some jurisdictions. Businesses can be sued for such an action. Yet believers believe this is somehow acceptable for the one who they worship, the one who is supposed to be the bastion of virtue. We find similar empty promises and statements with devotions such as the rosary: “You shall obtain all you ask of me by the recitation of the Rosary” (11th Promise).
“Virtually everyone know…” is not a proof. Nothing is verifiable, particularly by an appeal of a majority outside of an intelligible social order. Statements in public language are either less false or more false. However, this can be taken on faith with understanding because there is an active tradition which affirms the verses of the Bible. What does that mean?

Well, people have found it to be accurate and have testified to that accuracy. They have put their faith to the test and found it to be less false than untrue.

But your question goes beyond that, into other avenues with several assumptions that make it hard to discuss together as people. The assumptions that I see:

*If there were a God, He cannot lies, here is an example of a lie from God
*If there were a God, He would fulfill every wish as promised
*If there were a God, and the Bible His Word, he omits the “philosophical language” necessary to make Himself a truly intelligible (and caring?) Authority.

These questions presuppose a narrative structure taken from the Enlightenment with ethics, morals and laws that do not speak to traditional non-pagan beliefs but rely on them so as not to lapse into paganism.

For example “lying.” May I refer you to what Saint Thomas Aquinas says about lying, or to Jewish discussions on the lie God tells Abraham after announcing that Sarah is going to get pregnant.

Lies might not conform what you think it should.

The only other idea worth mentioning is how one proceeds from the idea that God is a wish-fulfiller. Often, very often, we are unsure of what we want, even when we think we know. Much like Jacques Lacan points out, our world is filled with polymorphic perversions we all conform to since we are social creatures and we conform to these without necessarily being articulated to do so. We are not taught the will, drive, ability to define our own wants and we are left to swim in our imaginary desires and/or unconscious drives. Not getting too into him (though I suggest you read him) there are differences we lack in determining our real needs and wants from our imaginary and symbolic desires that leave us un-whole as people.

This is why marketing and peer pressure is so effective, this is what makes good citizens, but it doesn’t make good people.

And making good people is the job God left to the Church through tools and artifacts- namely in this case, the Bible. The Christian can understand what Lacan is saying and go further because he can point the polymorphic perversion being apart of original sin triumphed by Real Love- the kind displayed by Saint Francis when he prayed not to be loved but to be loving; or the kind displayed when Christians are asked to empty (or die to themselves) and be filled by God. This is what is meant by the suffering maxim you point out below- making room for what is Real in terms of needs and wants and leaving behind the unreal artifices society and sin drill into us.

And until we can make sense of our needs or wants clearly and articulately, it is hard to make sense of this passage and to deem it a lie that God doesn’t keep his promises in relation to each one of us.

As for the rest of your examples, since they are all intended to show an error in Christian thinking:

You show a preoccupation with rules that does not apply to humans or God outside of an Enlightenment context. To me, it sounds like a more sociological problem (also apart of that Enlightenment context) than an actual philosophical/theological one. It is born of a confusion between what amounts to authority and it is valid and reasonable. But it doesn’t speak to what is truthful for believer or non-believer and it has more to do with the inability to ground Law in human social interaction anymore. And to that, I say: that is a gift of the Cross which has made it impossible to live as the pre-moderns did, who grounded their authoritative cultus (societies and laws) with the blood of innocents and scapegoats. In other words, it’s a very Christian thing for you to point out. 😛
 
One problem with that comparison, tho, is that the small child will soon get older…and in a few years may be able to talk to her parents directly and have a back-and-forth discussion as equal, mature adults…and get answers to the specific questions she asks.
The older child is YOUR comparison, not mine. Your just extending the comparison into something else.

You’re right about not getting to have a back and forth discussion with God though…at least not in they way you’re speaking of it. This is prayer however, AND a conversation between Abraham and God about Sodom and Gomorrah. There are also other instances of talk between God and men. The difference between God and men is always infinite though…that’s what makes is somewhat problematic to compare God/man talks with man/child talks.
 
The problem with the 10 plagues and the captivity is that it shows that God is actively involved in human history.
But almost everyone else in the story isn’t aware of that, as it’s happening.
You would expect the same to happen today.
Why should you? The plagues, along with other Biblical miracles, were preludes/follow-ups to a revelation. Whether or not revelation is closed is debatable, but if it’s closed, you wouldn’t expect a bona fide miracle of Biblical proportions.
 
But it is an interesting and thought-provoking question that deserves attention, since many of us are here on this site to ponder religious ideas. Do all main religions have two sets of rules like this, one for people and the other for God?

If you really want to ponder religious ideas, the first step is to aquire humility. Insinuating that your knowledge of good and evil surpasses that of God is not that step.
 
Do all main religions have two sets of rules like this, one for people and the other for God?

I thought we were supposed to strive and be “Christ-like” as much as possible, non?

(this is in response to the abortion/Pharoah question…re God and killing babies, etc)

Yes, we are supposed to be as Christ-like as possible. When we say this, we are referring to the second person of the trinity in His humanity. When Jesus was on earth, He obeyed the Father in everything, even to His own death.

Not only Christians, but also atheists, see a distinction in most of the forms of killings you mentioned. So atheists, too, must have two sets of rules. Because atheists (at least the ones I have known) see a distinction between killing in self-defense and premeditated killing. Atheists see a distinction between intentionally killing a bug or an animal vs intentionally killing another human being for reasons other than self defense.

How about you? Do you see a difference, or are they all the same to you?

God is dominant over us in the same way we are dominant over animals, only much more so. And when He chooses to take a life, it is for a reason other than His own comfort or fear. We are His creation. And God did not discriminate. He even allowed His own Son to be killed. He allowed the first-born of the Egyptians as well as His first-born and only.

We do not have different rules for us and for God because we don’t have a set of rules for God. We try to understand Him, often failing miserably. But we don’t have rules for Him.

We are not God. The child in the womb is His creation. It is up to Him to decided if that child should live or die, not us. We are His to do with as He wishes. His thoughts are not our thoughts; His ways are not our ways, just as the thoughts and ways of an insect are not our thoughts and ways.

It is inconsistent to say that it is wrong to kill a baby after it is born, but not ok to kill it in the womb. That sounds like two sets of rules to me, one rule for one location and another rule for a different location.

Jesus obeyed God in everything; it is Jesus we emulate, as you yourself implied.
 
Why do we make a loud noise about abortion if the baby is just gonna be in heaven anyways?
I would like to offer a challenging perspective:

Given that an innocent child will not be punished for the sins of the parent, and therefore the baby is going to live eternally in Heaven.

I think…the purpose of making a loud noise about abortion is to, instead, save the killer! There is so much Peace and Happiness to be Experienced from two or more people working together in Perfect Patience and Kindness and Motivation towards others and the self. At the point of considering abortion, one is definitely in a state out of Perfect Peace and Happiness. We should work hard to find the means to help them realize this.

Thoughts?
 
I would like to offer a challenging perspective:

Given that an innocent child will not be punished for the sins of the parent, and therefore the baby is going to live eternally in Heaven.

I think…the purpose of making a loud noise about abortion is to, instead, save the killer! There is so much Peace and Happiness to be Experienced from two or more people working together in Perfect Patience and Kindness and Motivation towards others and the self. At the point of considering abortion, one is definitely in a state out of Perfect Peace and Happiness. We should work hard to find the means to help them realize this.

Thoughts?
I’m not exactly sure what you mean when you say that at the point of considering abortion, one is in a state of perfect peace and happiness. I frequently hear that people agonize over the decision.

However, yes, it is good to save the killer. But that’s not the only reason we make a loud noise about this.

It is not up to us to deliberately take an innocent life for reasons that are not self-defense. Even without religious reasons, society recognizes that. That’s why we put those who do behind bars, and sometimes even take their lives. (Some people obviously believe it’s ok to take the life of someone who is not innocent, in other words, to kill the killer.)

For those of us who are Christian, we would say the life that God created is not ours to take. That is another reason to make a lot of noise about abortion.
 
Bohm Bawerk;8447053:
This is a thread asking why believers use one set of rules for Humanity, and another set of rules for God. I’m going to list the inconsistencies below: …
The only real questions here are - why does an fundamentalist atheist cling to biblical literalism?

And why present such double-barrelled fundamentalism on a catholic forum when the Catholic Church does not preach an exclusively literal interprtation of Scripture?
I concur. The OP sets up a strawman argument of Catholic beliefs, and attempts to refute this with inflammatory remarks. “Jihad”? Really… 🤷
Excellent question… and there will be only evasions…
Its not evasive to not bother answering a poorly constructed argument. Argue against what the Catholic Church teaches, not some nonsense that almost no-one could believe.
 
Do all main religions have two sets of rules like this, one for people and the other for God?

I thought we were supposed to strive and be “Christ-like” as much as possible, non?

Would that not mean trying to follow the example God has set for us in his actions, the same way a child follows her parent’s example and actions?
And since God is so much smarter.…surely what God does is the wisest and most right. So if we see God do something, it would lead one to think it is very good if we follow his lead?

Even if it means killing, when we see it fit and when we think it has a purpose, as God did.

The Crux of this Issue is an Understanding of God’s Being, the Holy Trinity, God’s Love, God’s Purpose, God’s Method, Humanity’s Purpose, and Personal Purpose All working together as One.

In attempts to state this simply:
God, the Creator lives Perfectly according to “Perfect Love.” He demonstrated this in His Crucifixion.
When God, the Creator, created us, He took on the Role of Fatherhood. As Parents know, there are stages we must progress our children through.
Among others, there are:
Absolute Providing (Adam and Eve/Infancy),
Teaching while Protecting (Old Testament/Childhood),
Granting Greater Freedom at the cost of Greater Struggles, while still Teaching and Providing (Old Testament/Adolescence),
Letting Go as a Parent and Allowing them to Become Successful on Their Own, and Completion of Teachings (New Testament/Adulthood)

The Completion of Teaching is as follows:
God, the Creator, came down from Heaven and took on the Role of Manhood. He showed us exactly what it entails to be Perfectly Loving.

Each one of our personal purpose is to Always be Perfectly Patient and Kind and Motivated with All our being towards Others and the Self as Jesus Did according to His Church’s Teachings.

Humanity’s Purpose is to do God’s Will as it is Done in Heaven.

Thoughts?
 
I’m not exactly sure what you mean when you say that at the point of considering abortion, one is in a state out of perfect peace and happiness. I frequently hear that people agonize over the decision.

However, yes, it is good to save the killer. But that’s not the only reason we make a loud noise about this.

It is not up to us to deliberately take an innocent life for reasons that are not self-defense. Even without religious reasons, society recognizes that. That’s why we put those who do behind bars, and sometimes even take their lives. (Some people obviously believe it’s ok to take the life of someone who is not innocent, in other words, to kill the killer.)

For those of us who are Christian, we would say the life that God created is not ours to take. That is another reason to make a lot of noise about abortion.
Regarding My Words
I apologize for my lack of clarity. When I initially read my thoughts, I also failed to see my use of “out” in between “state” and “of.” Perhaps I should have stated, “one is not in a state of Perfect Peace and Happiness.”

Regarding Reason
There are definitely several reasons to make a loud noise…
Perhaps if we focus our kindness on saving the potential killer, the natural consequence will be saving both lives, and ultimately enriching humanity with Greater Peace and Happiness.

For…
When we focus our kindness and consideration on the baby, we either fail to be kind, particularly considerate, or we are impatient towards the parents, which only discourages Oneness in our cause.

Thoughts?
 
Regarding My Words
I apologize for my lack of clarity. When I initially read my thoughts, I also failed to see my use of “out” in between “state” and “of.” Perhaps I should have stated, “one is not in a state of Perfect Peace and Happiness.”

Regarding Reason
There are definitely several reasons to make a loud noise…
Perhaps if we focus our kindness on saving the potential killer, the natural consequence will be saving both lives, and ultimately enriching humanity with Greater Peace and Happiness.

For…
When we focus our kindness and consideration on the baby, we either fail to be kind, particularly considerate, or we are impatient towards the parents, which only discourages Oneness in our cause.

Thoughts?
If you mean we should also show kindness to the mother who is considering an abortion, I would most certainly agree. Often those considering abortion are scared and/or in need of help. That’s why there are agencies like Birthright and many others, to show them options within a loving environment, and to help them with basic needs (such as housing or food.)

However, it seems this is off-topic from the OPs question. It would be best to discuss this kind of thing in another thread.
 
If you mean we should also show kindness to the mother who is considering an abortion, I would most certainly agree. Often those considering abortion are scared and/or in need of help. That’s why there are agencies like Birthright and many others, to show them options within a loving environment, and to help them with basic needs (such as housing or food.)

However, it seems this is off-topic from the OPs question. It would be best to discuss this kind of thing in another thread.
Agreed.
 
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