Why do Catholics believe Mary is a "virgin"?

[StrawberryJam]

Why do some non catholics insist Mary was hungry for sex at the young age of what? 12?
Why are non catholics insisting on a twelve year old having sex?

 

[pablope]

Before you make this blanket assertion, you’d do well to supply a source. I am certainly not fond of saying anything this disrespectful to the Blessed mother of Christ!!!

Indeed!

Jon

Amen to you JonNC…:thankyou::tiphat:…well said.

 

[pablope]

Thanks to Reuben J, Pablope, Tantrum ergo and Elvisman for your explanations and perspectives.

Your friend
Sufjon

You are welcome, sufjon. Hopefully, we answered your query. If not, just state so. How are you in your investigation of Christianity?

 

[Sufjon]

You are welcome, sufjon. Hopefully, we answered your query. If not, just state so. How are you in your investigation of Christianity?

Hi Friend Pablope: With the help of a lot of people here on CAF I am gaining a good deal of perspective. While my initial questions don’t always get answered I get some great information along the way and I learn a lot about how people think in relation to the tenets of their faith. I think it’s important to know what members of a faith actually think about these things. People on this web site are uncommonly well informed on the details of their faiths as compared to people I meet outside of it, so the opinions I get here mean a lot to me.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[benidict]

Why do some non catholics insist Mary was hungry for sex at the young age of what? 12?
Why are non catholics insisting on a twelve year old having sex?

:bowdown: great point! i never thought about this. i think she may have been a little older than 12, but Joseph would have been what? 40? i think God chose him for his integrity and his honor. i think that Joseph would have seen himself as more of a caretaker and a good steward as well as a husband. i think we get a glimpse of this in the story of david and bathsheeba. remember uriah? he thought of her more as a daughter than a wife. david couldnt even get him to go home, to cover up his affair with her. perhaps uriah was a prefigured example of Joseph, and the type of man he would be. one who would view his role as guardian and care taker for the Mother of God. Peace oh yes, not comparing Mary with bathsheeba, so lets nip that in the bud right now. more concentrating on uriah. although…there is an interesting teaching about bathsheebas later life as the queen mother of solomon, and how it is a prefiguration of the Holy Mothers intercession for us. peace

 

[JonNC]

It seems we have here a modern-day example of “I’d rather drink blood with the Papists than mere juice with the Zwinglians!”

I often find myself in that category, Erich.

Jon

 

[jlhargus]

I’m going to leave you boys with this. It’s a prophecy from Psalms talking about our Lord Jesus Christ and the relationship he had with his brothers.

I have become a stranger to my brothers, an alien to my mother’s sons. – Psalm 69:8

This is all the proof you need on top of every other scripture I provided. Have a great day men of God.

JL: [Psalm69: I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother’s children.]

Christ has become a stranger and an alien, to his mother=Israel’s sons. Christ’s brothers the sons of Israel, from whom he is estranged as they rejected him making him an alien. Ps69:8 is a messianic prophecy that Israel will reject Christ.

 

[jlhargus]

JL: [Psalm69: I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother’s children.]

Christ has become a stranger and an alien, to his mother=Israel’s sons. Christ’s brothers the sons of Israel, from whom he is estranged as they rejected him making him an alien. Ps69:8 is a messianic prophecy that Israel will reject Christ. Christ’s kin or brothers did not reject Christ they were in the upper room at Pentecost.

 

[jlhargus]

Out of all the disciples, Jesus was probably closest to John which is why he asked John to behold his mother. He certainly wasn’t going to ask his real brothers which were unbelievers at that point.

JL: Christ’s relations, called brothers, did not reject Christ they were in the upper room at Pentecost and James became bishop of Jerusalem. Doesn’t speak well for James or the others, who shirked their obligations to take care of their widowed mother, bringing dishonor on the whole family. Christ didn’t have a problem with Mary being with them while he was alive. Do you suppose Christ didn’t know they would convert? Do you suppose Mary’s faith was so weak she would have fallen away, before they converted, if left with unbelievers? Many live with unbelievers and even hostile unbelievers and many of those unbelievers end up turning to Christ. Do you suppose none of Mary’s so called children liked her, not one objecting, allowing John to take her off to a far city? Your theory sounds like a dysfunctional family Joseph and Mary must have been bad parents.

 

[GaryTaylor]

JL: [Psalm69: I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother’s children.]

Christ has become a stranger and an alien, to his mother=Israel’s sons. Christ’s brothers the sons of Israel, from whom he is estranged as they rejected him making him an alien. Ps69:8 is a messianic prophecy that Israel will reject Christ.

When I read this it made me think of Christ in relation to Israel and the World. You know whats Great Scripture reading where this significance hits home, the “Sermon on the Mount”. Not so much Israels rejection, but the idea that the message of God here becomes Greater than just Israel. And it must be greater than Israel thus all ethnic barriers.

 

[elvisman]

Before you make this blanket assertion, you’d do well to supply a source. I am certainly not fond of saying anything this disrespectful to the Blessed mother of Christ!!!

Indeed!

Jon

It’s not a blanket assertion. Never once did I say or even imply that this is what ALL non-Catholics believe.

---

I said that non-Catholics were fond of says this – and it’s true. Some do and some don’t.
I don’t make blanket assertions.

 

[JonNC]

**It’s not **a blanket assertion. Never once did I say or even imply that this is what ALL non-Catholics believe.

---

I said that non-Catholics were fond of says this – and it’s true. Some do and some don’t.
I don’t make blanket assertions.

Ok, my friend. I accept your clarification. When you said, “*”**Non-Catholics are fond **of saying that it doesn’t matter if Jesus had uterine siblings. They say that Jesus could have been born from anybody and still been the Messiah - he could have even been born of a harlot." * I took it as an implication of “all”, since you didn’t say “some”. I apologize that I misread what you meant. Sometimes in a forum like this, intent can be confused.

Thanks,
Jon

 

[jrose90]

The Bible mentions Jesus has brothers, and mentions them by name. The Bible also mentions Jesus and John the Baptist were cousins. So my question is why does the Catholic Church teach differently?

For the record, let me clarify. I do believe Mary was a virgin when she bore Jesus. I believe through the backing up of the scripture she was not a virgin afterwards. And Alex, where does the Bible does not say she remained a virgin her whole life?

Yeah just for your argument’s sake, if the others that were called “brothers” were actually cousins, why wasn’t Elizabeth (J the B’s mother) called Mary’s sister?
Personally, I’ve given up on the entire argument. I 100% believe that she was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus, I just don’t see why perpetual virgindom mattered after that point, and neither side is able to prove their argument, so there’s no point arguing it any further. Catholics and similar faiths will never change their belief that she may have had other children (or even sex for that matter) and I respect them for their strength of faith; Baptists and similar faiths will never change their belief or pray to her. At this point, you have to go on faith: either that Mary was a perpetual virgin or she wasn’t, and asking for proof 2000+ years later is a bit ridiculous.

 

[Linda_Marie]

Besides all the scriptural evidence that those named as the brothers of Jesus are not sons of Mary, there is the fact that an angel came to Joseph in his dreams and told him that Mary had conceived by the Holy Spirit.

Think about that a bit. Put yourself in his place. Would he have understood his marriage to her to be normal?

God just sent him a messenger and told him that what was in Mary was from God. Joseph was a godly man and knew his scripture. He would not have dared to touch her.

18 This is how Jesus Christ came to be born. His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph; but before they came to live together she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit.
19 Her husband Joseph, being an upright man and wanting to spare her disgrace, decided to divorce her informally.
20 He had made up his mind to do this when suddenly the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, 'Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because she has conceived what is in her by the Holy Spirit.
catholic.org/bible/book.php?id=47

 

[elvisman]

Ok, my friend. I accept your clarification. When you said, “*”**Non-Catholics are fond ***of saying that it doesn’t matter if Jesus had uterine siblings. They say that Jesus could have been born from anybody and still been the Messiah - he could have even been born of a harlot." I took it as an implication of “all”, since you didn’t say “some”. I apologize that I misread what you meant. Sometimes in a forum like this, intent can be confused.

Thanks,
Jon

Quite alright.
Maybe I should have said, “Some non-Catholics” or even, “Many non-Catholics” to clarify.

 

[Good_Fella]

Howdy folks. I love y’all, so don’t get offended.

But it is not scriptural to try and sell the idea that Mary is a virgin. Do you think they will change their thoughts on that?

thanks

True Christians have always believed that Mary was perpetually a virgin, because she was overshadowed by the Holy Spirit. Joseph was her husband only legally - not morally. Many Protestants are not the first to deny the Perpetual Virginity of Mary. The early Church had to reckon with the heretical Christian sect the Antidicomarianites, which denied many other doctrines of the Apostolic Church besides this one.

A garden enclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.
Songs 4, 12

PAX :heaven:

 

[GaryTaylor]

All “Christians” believe in Marys Virginity because simply put…Its BIBLE.

“Behold the Virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanual” MATT. 1:23

“The Lord himself will give you a sign, Behold, the Virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanual” Isaiah 7:14

Immanual means…God with Us!

 

[benidict]

Yeah just for your argument’s sake, if the others that were called “brothers” were actually cousins, why wasn’t Elizabeth (J the B’s mother) called Mary’s sister?
Personally, I’ve given up on the entire argument. I 100% believe that she was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus, I just don’t see why perpetual virgindom mattered after that point, and neither side is able to prove their argument, so there’s no point arguing it any further. Catholics and similar faiths will never change their belief that she may have had other children (or even sex for that matter) and I respect them for their strength of faith; Baptists and similar faiths will never change their belief or pray to her. At this point, you have to go on faith: either that Mary was a perpetual virgin or she wasn’t, and asking for proof 2000+ years later is a bit ridiculous.

thank you my friend. but it is a very important subject, really there is nothing ridiculous about asking for proof. Mary is almost always the first objection that comes up when a protestant wants to attempt to prove the Catholic Church wrong. She is also, almost always the last hurdle, a convert to Catholicism must overcome. it seem interesting does it not, that our Mother is the first to come under attack by those who wish to erode, or destroy Catholic beliefs. i think disbelief in what the Catholic Church teaches about Her, is from one source. the father of lies. it is a more important subject than many give it credit for. peace and prayers for you and yours.

 

[StevenFrancis]

There just really isn’t any good reason to believe that Mary was NOT perpetually virgin. Our Blessed Mother was a type of the Ark of the Covenent. Her womb IS the Ark of the new convenant. It’s hard to understand why any more than that even needs to be said. The implications of that, once fully grasped, studied, and prayed upon yield all that needs to be known. Yet so many protestants seem to think that somehow she gave birth to GOD, the creator of all that there is, and then simply ceases to be relevant in Christian history. She can now go and make regular babies, and give up her virginity, and have other children, and just go on about her life. As if worshiping, caring for, and protecting the Son of the living GOD is somehow a secondary task, and her and Joseph can just carry on from there as any other married couple, and that it just doesn’t matter theologically.

Honestly, I don’t think many protestants even just stop and think about the Blessed Virgin. They simply don’t sit and pray and meditate on her. They read the scriptures surrounding her with earthly men glasses on, instead of Holy Glasses. They don’t pray and ask the Holy Spirit to help them understand the concepts they have trouble grasping. They just look for some proof texted bible passages in the Gospels, without caring about any of the history, sociology, theology, or ways of the day, let alone God’s story up to the point of Mary’s appearance in the bible. Also, they don’t seem to want to read and pray on the Apocalypse of St. John which is very useful in defining the importance of our Lady, the Queen of Heaven. I could go on.

Yes - Mary was a human being, but she was also a human born without original sin, and preserved sinless by God in order to become the vessel of the very Son of God. The Lord and Saviour of man. The second person of the trinity. Her womb would be ever more sacred to a Jewish man than the Holy of Holies in the temple of Jerusalem itself. After prayer and meditation on that do you suppose that Joseph would even have any slight inclination to fill her womb with other children? If it was even possible, what would the effect on them have been? What would the effect on Joseph have been. Read the Old Testament while mulling this over. Everything about the Temple, and the Priests, and the Holy of Holies, etc.

I know it’s cynical, and I’m sorry. Truly. But sometimes, I think that protestants just don’t WANT to acknowledge the importance and holiness of Mary, as an actual conscious act of spite towards the Church Universal. If the Catholic’s are right about this one, then what else might they have right?

I’ve struck the rest of a long screed I had here as being uncharitable.

May the Lord bless and keep us all, and bring us to universal faith.

The Peace of the Lord be with you all.

Steven

 

[GaryTaylor]

You know what really blows my mind. Theres a correlation constantly missed here, and its with God, Jesus Christ and the Blessed Mother.

The correlation is that God had to desend as a human being through Mary. God, the Almighty God is humbling himself for mankind and coming to us as HUMAN. Why, why does He do this? This is God humbling himself we are talking about.

Now, Jesus Christ has a responsibility, and He must also “Decend in order to Ascend.”

Christ/God, Son of Man, humbles Himself and dies on a Cross for US??? He dies on a Cross, He picks the worst imaginable Death He could find, on purpose! Well we know the lesson’s from Bible as the Redeemer, no need to go there…anyway…

Now we have the Human example; not God, not the Son of God, but a Human Woman, Virgin predicted by the Prophet Isaiah from the Old Testament of the OT, waiting on the Messiah faithfully. A Virgin 2000 years later “still” waiting on the Messiah! She as HUMAN shows us how to DESEND in order to ASCEND. She’s the Perfect Example. No Sin, all Humility, Suffering, Persecuted, Consecrated to God, all the teachings of the Beatitudes of the Bible…The “Blessed” Mother. Why do you think She is called Blessed? [And yes there are others in Bible called Blessed, the point is?]

We all must Desend in order to Ascend.

The process is of ascending yourself, the human “self”. How can one conquer himself the human “self”? By desending. Egos, images, attitudes, facades, prides, are all of Zero importance and don’t serve to show the path to God. The Bible constantly speaks of the Meek, the Poor, why? Its telling you to let go of yourself, desend, its the path to ascend.

Mary the Blessed Mother is the perfect human example of how to desend to ascend.