Why do Catholics believe Mary is a "virgin"?

[bo_leggs]

@chuckfrmvalyfrg

BRAVO!!! WELL SAID!! (And yes, I was shouting, shouting from the rooftops.)

 

[mark_avery]

Because of Richard Branson silly…

Fly me to the moon

 

[CHRISTSaves]

This topic has gone on way too long and it is Not That Difficult. We ARE NOT to Worship Mary. Mary is just a servant to Christ as you and I. Yes, she was used AS A VESSEL TO DELIVER CHRIST. BUT, SO ARE WE. YES, she WAS A VIRGIN at the birth of Christ, but she was not a virgin her whole life. WHY is so much emphasis put on a woman who was used as a vessel? The Emphasis should be on JESUS CHRIST WHO SAVES. MARY DOES NOT SAVE. MARY DOES NOT HEAR YOUR PRAYERS.
JESUS NEVER SAID PRAY TO MARY. JESUS SAID “WHO IS MY MOTHER?? WHO IS MY BROTHER???”
DISCIPLES of Christ are His mothers, brothers, sisters, etc…
Stop looking to a woman who is no greater than you and I; and TURN TO JESUS CHRIST WHO DIED FOR YOUR SINS. This IGNORANCE of Biblical Truth has to stop. It ISNT That Difficult. Just Turn to GOD’s WORD.
When DO YOU EVER SEE BIBLICAL Precedent for saying prayers to ‘virgin’ Mary who is no longer a virgin??

 

[ClamDigger]

This topic has gone on way too long and it is Not That Difficult. We ARE NOT to Worship Mary. Mary is just a servant to Christ as you and I. Yes, she was used AS A VESSEL TO DELIVER CHRIST. BUT, SO ARE WE. YES, she WAS A VIRGIN at the birth of Christ, but she was not a virgin her whole life. WHY is so much emphasis put on a woman who was used as a vessel? The Emphasis should be on JESUS CHRIST WHO SAVES. MARY DOES NOT SAVE. MARY DOES NOT HEAR YOUR PRAYERS.
JESUS NEVER SAID PRAY TO MARY. JESUS SAID “WHO IS MY MOTHER?? WHO IS MY BROTHER???”
DISCIPLES of Christ are His mothers, brothers, sisters, etc…
Stop looking to a woman who is no greater than you and I; and TURN TO JESUS CHRIST WHO DIED FOR YOUR SINS. This IGNORANCE of Biblical Truth has to stop. It ISNT That Difficult. Just Turn to GOD’s WORD.
When DO YOU EVER SEE BIBLICAL Precedent for saying prayers to ‘virgin’ Mary who is no longer a virgin??

Prove absolutely anything you’ve just said, because right now you just look like a babbling cretin.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

This topic has gone on way too long and it is Not That Difficult. We ARE NOT to Worship Mary.

I have to wonder if some people even bother reading more than the titles of threads when I see responses like this.

How many times does a Catholic have to tell you we don’t worship Mary before you will listen?

Once you’ve been corrected about what we believe and yet you persist to continue with the same accusations, please explain how it’s not bearing false witness against your neighbor?

 

[GaryTaylor]

This topic has gone on way too long and it is Not That Difficult. We ARE NOT to Worship Mary.

And if you “actually” read the thread you find no-one is worshipping Mary. But I’ll tell you what instead of worshipping HD TVs, IPods, Immoral-sex, violence, power, greed, and wrath and vanity. It certainly would go a long long way to venerate Mary to help bring World Peace through Jesus, and give us enough time before God judge’s this as “sodom and gomorrah.”

Mary is just a servant to Christ as you and I. Yes, she was used AS A VESSEL TO DELIVER CHRIST.

And here we have the BVM once again reduced to no different that you and I? Did you have a child recently who if fact was GOD? Immaculate Conception? Annunciation? Nothing? I guess we can quickly conlude Mary is much different that you I:shrug:

YES, she WAS A VIRGIN at the birth of Christ, but she was not a virgin her whole life.

And once again not reading the thread, do you have scripture proof? Because none exists. So please do explain to us why Mary fails to remain a Virgin? I’d love to hear that story with your Sola Scriptura and inferior understanding? It may be one for the records.

WHY is so much emphasis put on a woman who was used as a vessel

Because She is who defeats satan in Revelation, She is the New Ark which replaced the old. She protects the Child Jesus so He can complete His intended purpose from God, to give “you” the “opportunity” of Salvation. Because what was lost through Eves disobediance is corrected by Mary obediance

The Emphasis should be on JESUS CHRIST WHO SAVES. MARY DOES NOT SAVE. MARY DOES NOT HEAR YOUR PRAYERS.

Jesus save’s we all get that, Marys saves through intercession. The rest you simply do not know what you are talking about and History would prove you wrong. But you’ll have to get out of the bubble you live and seek “truth” with an open mind to grasp this.

JESUS NEVER SAID PRAY TO MARY. JESUS SAID “WHO IS MY MOTHER?? WHO IS MY BROTHER???”

And this is what the wonderful concept of Sola Scriptura has bought us, Verse out of context. Actually corrupted. You should actually have the context explained to you. Next you’ll be quoting Paul instead of Peter how predictable.

DISCIPLES of Christ are His mothers, brothers, sisters, etc…

And Mary was the “first” Disciple. And there were 12-Apostles, who the church keys were given to PETER to bind and lose.

Mary chosen through time by God, Full of Grace, who found favor, Who Gods personal messenger appears to “ASK” Mary if She will help complete Gods plan. He “asks” Her. Thats how much respect Mary receives from God. And when Gods plan is completed how much respect who She then receive? Not hard to tell just study Fatima or Zeitoun.

But in you corrupt thinking after all thei Mary would focus of haveiong Sex. After already being a consecrated to God. after already finding favor with God, After speaking with God daily here entire life “in person”.

Yes I’m sure “sex” was the thought on Marys mind. Do you not see how this theory is staright out of the Lake of Fire?

Stop looking to a woman who is no greater than you and I; and TURN TO JESUS CHRIST

Again back to the Theotoko’s, Mother of God, Holy Family, and equating Her with yourself? How sad. You realize you border on blasphemy?

WHO DIED FOR YOUR SINS. This IGNORANCE of Biblical Truth has to stop. It ISNT

Who bore the One who dies on the Cross who was Gods handmaid? Apparently you miss the significance of the Bible in total context.

That Difficult. Just Turn to GOD’s WORD??

Sure, Be Born Again, at you local Evangelical church and God will perform One Miracle for $1000, dollars for you in His time-seed program. We blessed to have you here and impart your Biblical wisdom on us. YOu should study the reformation and the history of the Protestant church through the centurys. Baptists were singing Hymns to the Immaculate Conception in 1906. Luthers thinking on the topic is know, Who’s thinking do you follow, satans?

.

When DO YOU EVER SEE BIBLICAL Precedent for saying prayers to ‘virgin’ Mary who is no longer a virgin??

Now you would Graduate a Statement to fact, one you can’t prove it in the first place. You do realize the Hail Mary is based on Scripture. An “example” is given by Jesus when asked. The Mystics/Saints through Histroy have left numerous. You do remember the “Saints” from scripture? This would have nothing to do with Mary since she was alive at the time. Nonetheless we have the Fathers of Church who fought heretical thinking “like yours” for centurys to evolve to the state of what Truth and Reality is. Through History, Doctors of the Church, the Mystics, and Supernatural. All of which confirm the truth of Mary outside of our time.

Your knowledge on this is reduced to what other heretics told you, and what you never bothered to question, accepted as fact and then set out to confirm by your Sola Scriptura understanding. Which I’m here to tell you is seriously lacking.

My prays are with you.

God Bless, Gary

 

[Tantum_ergo]

This topic has gone on way too long and it is Not That Difficult. We ARE NOT to Worship Mary. Mary is just a servant to Christ as you and I. Yes, she was used AS A VESSEL TO DELIVER CHRIST. BUT, SO ARE WE. YES, she WAS A VIRGIN at the birth of Christ, but she was not a virgin her whole life. WHY is so much emphasis put on a woman who was used as a vessel? The Emphasis should be on JESUS CHRIST WHO SAVES. MARY DOES NOT SAVE. MARY DOES NOT HEAR YOUR PRAYERS.
JESUS NEVER SAID PRAY TO MARY. JESUS SAID “WHO IS MY MOTHER?? WHO IS MY BROTHER???”
DISCIPLES of Christ are His mothers, brothers, sisters, etc…
Stop looking to a woman who is no greater than you and I; and TURN TO JESUS CHRIST WHO DIED FOR YOUR SINS. This IGNORANCE of Biblical Truth has to stop. It ISNT That Difficult. Just Turn to GOD’s WORD.
When DO YOU EVER SEE BIBLICAL Precedent for saying prayers to ‘virgin’ Mary who is no longer a virgin??

A. Catholics do not worship Mary.
B. No human being should be referred to as simply a ‘vessel’.
C. No Catholic ever said that Mary saves. Only Jesus saves.
D. Jesus never said NOT to pray to Mary; prayer is not something only for God. Read a little about word etymology and you will see the definition of prayer is ‘asking’. not ‘asking of God alone.’
E. Mary is still the mother of Christ physically though ‘you and I’ are mother/brother/sister of Christ in spirit.
F. Catholics do not ‘look to a woman’, we look to Jesus.
G. As for ‘no greater than you and I’, you really think giving birth to Christ was ‘nothing special’?
H. The Bible says NOTHING about Mary NOT being a virgin after Christ’s birth and NOTHING about any children of hers OTHER THAN JESUS.
I. The Bible says nothing about how ‘everything we know is contained in the Bible’. The Bible itself was given its canon over 350 years after Christ’s resurrection. By Catholics.
J. The original reformers --Martin Luther, John Calvin, etc. BELIEVED THAT MARY WAS A PERPETUAL VIRGIN. By WHOSE authority do YOU claim she was something else?

Gee, for only 3 posts here you’re a bit, um, ‘confident’ to go around telling Catholics how wrong they are based on your own unsupported opinion. . .

 

[TobyLue]

CHRISTsaves

Gee, for only 3 posts here you’re a bit, um, ‘confident’ to go around telling Catholics how wrong they are based on your own unsupported opinion. . .

Yes, please do stick around. You will be amazed to know how you have been duped into thinking you know what the CC teaches. I’m pushing 70 and even in my early teens I would hear non-Catholics say that we put Mary on the same level as God and worshiped her. This same bull has been going around like forever and even though it has been explained time and time again ad naseum, we still hear the same things repeated over and over again.

Here is a challenge to you - next time you hear from your pastor or whoever that Catholics teach such and such which is against scripture, ask them to provide you with the Catholic document that says exactly what they are claiming. Oh, they will probably say that there is no Catholic document but they see it with their own eyes where Catholics bow down to statues and worship idols. Ask them if they can see into that persons heart.

I could say the same thing when I see someone get a picture of their loved ones and hold it close to their heart and even kiss it.

God brought you to this forum for a purpose. To learn the truths of the CC, its history, and the scripture interpretations that have remained the same for almost 2000 years. AMOF those same teachings that were around BEFORE the bible was compiled by, guess who? The CC.* (Sorry to disappoint you but it wasn’t King James.)* Tradition came first, then the books which were accepted to form the Bible had to agree with those Traditional teachings.

God Bless your…

 

[guanophore]

This topic has gone on way too long and it is Not That Difficult. We ARE NOT to Worship Mary. Mary is just a servant to Christ as you and I. Yes, she was used AS A VESSEL TO DELIVER CHRIST. BUT, SO ARE WE. YES, she WAS A VIRGIN at the birth of Christ, but she was not a virgin her whole life.

you have answered the question right here. The reasoh WHY we must defend this article of faith is because it was passed down to us from the Apostles, and we are not at liberty to change anything from the once for all divine deposit of faith given to the Church - even if it seems convenient to do so. Mary has become a sign of contradiction among Christians who hold the apostolic faith against those who deny that One Faith described in the NT. The faith is like a seamless garment. We do not have the freedom to pull out threads that dont’ make sense to us. It weakens the whole garment.

WHY is so much emphasis put on a woman who was used as a vessel?

You write about her as if she were a toilet, and after flushing out her infant son, she returns to being a plain ol’ toilet. I don;t think you realize how disrespectful this is to the Son of God, who loves His mother, as all good sons do.

The Emphasis should be on JESUS CHRIST WHO SAVES. MARY DOES NOT SAVE. MARY DOES NOT HEAR YOUR PRAYERS.
JESUS NEVER SAID PRAY TO MARY. JESUS SAID “WHO IS MY MOTHER?? WHO IS MY BROTHER???”

There is no need to yell at us, ok? Some of us have heard this drivel from fundamentalists 1000 times. Yelling will not get us to change our minds. If we are to relinquish the gospel that was given to us, then we will be anathema, ok? Your yelling is nothing compared to being separated from the One Faith.

Of course Jesus saves, and He honored Mary with the gift of participating in His salvation of mankind with a unique role that has never been held by a human person, nor ever shall be again.

Jesus was so close to His mother, He let her decide when to release Him from her home and go to his ministry and death. He invites all of us to have the privilege of intimacy with HIm that she does,

DISCIPLES of Christ are His mothers, brothers, sisters, etc…

Yes, and Mary was His very first disciple.

Not only is she blessed because she carried Him, nursed Him, changed His diapers and taught HIm His prayers, but also because she heard the Word of God and obeyed it.

Stop looking to a woman who is no greater than you and I; and TURN TO JESUS CHRIST WHO DIED FOR YOUR SINS. This IGNORANCE of Biblical Truth has to stop. It ISNT That Difficult. Just Turn to GOD’s WORD.

You seem to be suffering from some false dichotomy that turning to Jesus means that Mary cannot be part of our life. Just as the wise men were bowing to the infant Jesus as she held HIm in her arms, so now is she not separated form His majesty in heaven.

YOu also seem to be suffering from the mistaken notion that all of God’s Word is contained in the scripture. this is a falsehood.

When DO YOU EVER SEE BIBLICAL Precedent for saying prayers to ‘virgin’ Mary who is no longer a virgin??

We see that participating in the communion of saints is commanded.
Was there some reason you thought Mary was not saved? Is not made righteous by the sacrifice of her Only Son?

If you wish to continue posting here, you will have to revise your tone and your expressions. It is required that you respect the Catholic faith, even if you don’t agree.

 

[guanophore]

actually… This might be a good question?? Because didn’t mary have children with Joseph? I was born and raised catholic. but I never understood why so much emphasis is put on mary being a virgin? Isn’t it Jesus that GOD sent to die for our sins? I don’t know I’m confused by this.

No, Mary did not have any other children.

Yes, Jesus was sent to die for our sins.

You were not very well catechized as a Catholic, I am afraid, but that can be corrected. I went back and found your first post from December:
"CHRISTSaves:

I’m new here. I was born and raised catholic. don’t go to catholic church anymore but I’ve always believed in GOD and prayed and I’ve always had His help when I needed it. In the last year my life changed after I prayed to know the truth and leave the lifestyle I was living. I don’t do things I used to do, I don’t even desire to get drunk or high anymore!! I just want to talk to other Christians because Jesus saved my life!! I love reading the bible and getting to know what Christianity is about.

It is good that you have finally decided to cooperate with the grace imparted to you in baptism, and to read your Scriptures. In them, you will find that you are to receive the Gospel from the Church, through those who have been authorized to teach it.

You will learn very much about Christianity here at CAF, but try to have a teachable heart, rather than one of rebellion, and you will learn more faster.

God Bless I just know I read my bible and believe Jesus Christ died for my sins and when I prayed and prayed to GOD for help to change I turned away from drugs, alcoholism, drug dealing, fornication/adultery… All I know is that I believe in GOD, the Bible, and Jesus and now I don’t even desire what I used to be chained to. I should be dead or in jail right now, but reading the Bible and turning to Jesus saved me…

Praise God! It is always good to hear when a good Catholic Book has helped a soul to find grace.

So as a born/raised catholic with a catholic family… I just don’t understand why people talk about mary or the saints anymore??

If you are willing to learn why this is, we are happy to share with you, but if you have made up your mind in advance that it is "not in the bible so it is wrong’ then there is really no use in discussing it, is there?

I don’t know I’m just confused. I know I’m different by it wasn’t mary or the saints or even going to church that saved me…

How do you know that?

from church for a long time. But just by reading the Bible, turning to GOD, confessing with an honest heart to GOD that I was lost, then allowing GOD to change me… My life is 180 degrees reversed from where it was a year ago

May God preserve you in your faith, and enable you to continue to receive His grace as you learn more about the faith you abandoned long ago.

 

[GaryTaylor]

You write about her as if she were a toilet, and after flushing out her infant son, she returns to being a plain ol’ toilet. I don;t think you realize how disrespectful this is to the Son of God, who loves His mother, as all good sons do.

There is no need to yell at us, ok? Some of us have heard this drivel from fundamentalists 1000 times. Yelling will not get us to change our minds. If we are to relinquish the gospel that was given to us, then we will be anathema, ok? Your yelling is nothing compared to being separated from the One Faith.

In the attempt to be respectful to various heretical thinking, I don’t know what can said positive on this first paragraph. Here is what I mean by not only contempt but out right blasphemy.

You simply cannot conlude you understand scripture and make disrespecfull statements such as this.

And I agree the constant use of Capital letter statments simply lacks computer etiquette. Combined with a total lack of repect to many of us who have studed this faith of “Christology” for decades. Especially in the area of Our Lady and Mystiacs. I’m sorry if "we/I responed by the same level or tone of attitude.

God Bless Gary

 

[jmcrae]

This topic has gone on way too long and it is Not That Difficult. We ARE NOT to Worship Mary.

We don’t “worship” Mary. We fulfill the prophecy that “All generations shall call me blessed.”

Mary is just a servant to Christ as you and I.

She described herself as “the handmaid of the Lord,” so yes, she saw herself as His servant.

Yes, she was used AS A VESSEL TO DELIVER CHRIST. BUT, SO ARE WE. YES, she WAS A VIRGIN at the birth of Christ, but she was not a virgin her whole life. WHY is so much emphasis put on a woman who was used as a vessel?

Mary was not just “used as a vessel” - that is more than offensive - not just to Mary but to God Himself.

If you are a husband and a father of children, wouldn’t you be offended if someone told you that you just use your wife as a vessel to produce children? What kind of man does that?

God, who is Love, certainly does not behave like that!

 

[JonNC]

=CHRISTSaves;7821293]This topic has gone on way too long and it is Not That Difficult. We ARE NOT to Worship Mary.

Non-Catholic here.:yup:
I have listened long enough and hard enough to our Catholic siblings, and reading their catechism, to know that they do not worship Mary. One may disagree with another’s teachings, but must also make sure that the teaching being disagreed with is the actual teaching.

Mary is just a servant to Christ as you and I. Yes, she was used AS A VESSEL TO DELIVER CHRIST. BUT, SO ARE WE.

I understand the metaphor of vessel, but find it rather callous.

YES, she WAS A VIRGIN at the birth of Christ, but she was not a virgin her whole life.

Who says? Scripture is not clear on this. References to brothers, etc, are very easily understood in the original language as cousins. The whole of the Church taught that she was ever virgin, the early reformers did not question it. You’re welcome to believe she had other children, but your statement that she was not a virgin her whole life is a more recent speculation.

WHY is so much emphasis put on a woman who was used as a vessel? The Emphasis should be on JESUS CHRIST WHO SAVES. MARY DOES NOT SAVE. MARY DOES NOT HEAR YOUR PRAYERS.

Why is it hard to see that honoring Mary, or St. Paul, or St. Peter or John is, by its nature, honoring Christ?
Mary does not save. Well said, though no one ever claimed she does.
She may or may not, but God certainly hears hers.

Stop looking to a woman who is no greater than you and I; and TURN TO JESUS CHRIST WHO DIED FOR YOUR SINS.

Who said Catholics have turned away from Christ.

This IGNORANCE of Biblical Truth has to stop. It ISNT That Difficult. Just Turn to GOD’s WORD.

And I find this plainly arrogant.

When DO YOU EVER SEE BIBLICAL Precedent for saying prayers to ‘virgin’ Mary who is no longer a virgin??

The Lutheran confessions state that there is no command, promise, or example of invoking the saints. However, neither is there a condemnation of it.
Jon

 

[GaryTaylor]

Re Kevin .
Please read my post # 367 and Randy Carson’s posts # 396, 397 , 398 & 399 ( thankfully Randy Carson did most of the heavy lifting ) . I think Protestants get the Perpetual Virginity of Mary wrong because they have cut themselves off from two of the three streams/sources of Truth . You have Sacred Scripture ( albeit an edited one ) but not Sacred Tradition or the Magisterium . You also don’t put much stock in the Early Church Fathers. Even the Reformers ( Luther , Calvin and Zwingli ) took the Perpetual Virginity of Mary as settled . Because Protestants ignore Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium , they don’t seem to know what Mary’s role was as a " Consecrated . Perpetual Virgin Serving in the Temple ". If Mary had NEVER been the mother of Jesus , she still would have married an older , honorable man , who would have been expected to honor Mary’s vow of perpetual virginity . Why do you think these Temple Virgins were married to older men in the first place , rather than younger , virile men in the prime of their lives ?
This denial of Mary’s Perpetual Virginity seems to be a recent Protestant position , even a Lutheran poster has noted that it is ( The Perpetual Virginity) their official stated position . Moses Maimonides ( sp . ) famously wrote , " Accept the truth , whatever the source ". The Catholic and Orthodox Churches have sources that Protestants refuse to accept .
You examples of , “till” and "untill " that I see from Protestants was handled very nicely by Randy Carson .
"A man’s contemporaries always know him best " ( I forget the author ), well Mary’s contemporaries , the Apostles and Early Church Fathers proclaimed Her Perpetual Virginity , so why won’t you ?
Why do you think there is more evidence denying Mary’s Perpetual Virginity, obviously the Apostles and Early Church Fathers disagree with you .

Exactly and Randys post are well re-searched. The fact that we have this new heretical thinking that 'Mary is no different that any other women" ony indicates the mess the Protestant denomination are in today, and you would like to involve us in this.

100- years ago Protestants held to a higher esteem that this. What happened? The smoke of satan entered the your churchs? Baptist, Lutherans etc. What happened.

Sorry but you’ll have stand alone on the unconfirmed, non-biblical heresy.

Seems to me if you don’t have a bone of contention your just not happy.

Sad is what it is. “Oh the Holy Family is no different than you and I” Wonderfull false doctrine, as usual based of zero evidence and fringe corrupt theories. And loose Sola Sciptura interprated with total disregard to thso who actually wrote the Bible and left the “footnotes” to explain theri state of mind. Geez lets ingnore that!

God Bless, Gary

.

 

[Nicea325]

Originally Posted by rev kevin
Ok prove it.

So Mary had other children-eh? Still stuck with the NOVEL belief invented by so many Protestants. Rev Kev care to explain why if it is of the utmost importance Mary had other children,I am curious to know why not ONE NT writer or early church father/historian bothers to give any slight information about them?

No mention if they were jealous of Jesus? How many of them disbelieved Jesus or challenged him? One can go on and on with any array of questions to be begged. Finally, I find it rather odd,if Jesus has actual blood brothers,he never bothers to make ONE an Apostle or leave the care of his mother to ONE blood brother?

 

[DElias]

What happened? The smoke of satan entered the your churchs? Baptist, Lutherans etc. What happened.

I came on this forum to learn, not to be insulted, and no, your emoticon does not automatically make it better.

 

[rev_kevin]

So Mary had other children-eh? Still stuck with the NOVEL belief invented by so many Protestants. Rev Kev care to explain why if it is of the utmost importance Mary had other children,I am curious to know why not ONE NT writer or early church father/historian bothers to give any slight information about them?

No mention if they were jealous of Jesus? How many of them disbelieved Jesus or challenged him? One can go on and on with any array of questions to be begged. Finally, I find it rather odd,if Jesus has actual blood brothers,he never bothers to make ONE an Apostle or leave the care of his mother to ONE blood brother?

As the veneration of Mary increased throughout the centuries, the vehicle of Sacred Tradition became the means of promoting new doctrines not explicitly taught in the Bible. The virginity of Mary is clearly taught in scripture when describing the birth of Jesus. But is the doctrine of her continued virginity supported by the Bible? Did Mary lose her virginity after Jesus was born? Does the Bible reveal that Mary had other children, that Jesus had brothers and sisters?

The Bible does not come out and declare that Mary remained a virgin and that she had no children. In fact, the Bible seems to state otherwise: (All quotes are from the NASB.)

Matthew 1:24-25 - “And Joseph arose from his sleep, and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took as his wife, and kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.”
Matthew 12:46-47 - "While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You.”
Matthew 13:55 - “Is not this the carpenters son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?”
Mark 6:2-3 - "And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue; and the many listeners were astonished, saying, “Where did this man get these things, and what is this wisdom given to Him, and such miracles as these performed by His hands? “Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?”
John 2:12 - “After this He went down to Capernaum, He and His mother, and His brothers, and His disciples; and there they stayed a few days.”
Acts 1:14 - “These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.”
1 Cor. 9:4-5 - “Do we not have a right to eat and drink? Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles, and the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?”
Gal. 1:19 - But I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the Lords brother.”
An initial reading of these biblical texts seems to clear up the issue: Jesus had brothers and sisters. But such obvious scriptures are not without their response from Catholic Theologians. The primary argument against these biblical texts is as follows:

Lets briefly analyze a couple of verses dealing with the brothers of Jesus.

Matthew 12:46-47, "While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You.”
Matthew 13:55 - “Is not this the carpenters son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?”
In both of these verses, if the brothers of Jesus are not brothers, but His cousins, then who is His mother and who is the carpenters father? In other words, mother here refers to Mary. The carpenter in Matt. 13:55, refers to Joseph. These are literal. Yet, the Catholic theologian will then stop there and say, "Though carpenters son refers to Joseph, and mother refers to Mary, brothers does not mean brothers, but “cousins.” This does not seem to be a legitimate assertion. You cannot simply switch contextual meanings in the middle of a sentence unless it is obviously required. The context is clear. This verse is speaking of Joseph, Mary, and Jesus brothers. The whole context is of familial relationship: father, mother, and brothers.

Did Mary have other children? The Bible seems to suggest yes. Catholic Tradition says no. Which will you trust?

Of course, the Catholic will simply state that even this phrase “my mother’s sons” is in reference not to his siblings, but to cousins and other relatives. This is a necessary thing for the Catholic to say, otherwise, the perpetual virginity of Mary is threatened and since that contradicts Roman Catholic tradition, an interpretation that is consistent with that tradition must be adopted.

The question is, “Was Jesus estranged by His brothers?”. Yes, He was. John 7:5 says “For not even His brothers were believing in Him.” Furthermore, Psalm 69:8 says both “my brothers” and “my mother’s sons.” Are these both to be understood as not referring to His siblings? Hardly. The Catholics are fond of saying that “brothers” must mean “cousins.” But, if that is the case, then when we read “an alien to my mother’s sons” we can see that the writer is adding a further distinction and narrowing the scope of meaning. In other words, Jesus was alienated by his siblings, His very half-brothers begotten from Mary.

It is sad to see the Roman Catholic church go to such lengths to maintain Mary’s virginity, something that is a violation of biblical law to be married and fill the earth.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

And the Orthodox, Rev. Kev. Let’s not leave them out. The two Churches with the longest history. The two Churches who were the entirety of Christianity for the first 1600 years. They taught as the Spirit led them (the same Spirit who LED them to the Bible canon, which you attempt to cherry pick). Heck, the very first protestants believed in the Perpetual Virginity.

You know, the early Christians weren’t stupid, Rev. Do you really think that it was only after somebody printed the Bible in good old ENGLISH and that Squire McBluff and Goodman Jones were able to read in good old ENGLISH that it simply leaped to the eye that by the great Jehosaphat, looketh there, zounds forsooth, it says UNTIL, that means she MUST have ‘carnal knowledge’ AFTERWARD, gadzooks ods bodkins.

Nobody else was ‘smart enough’ to pick up on this for over 1600 years? Despite the Holy Spirit’s continual teaching nobody ‘got it’ until the good squire and his ilk reasoned it all out???

 

[guanophore]

I came on this forum to learn, not to be insulted, and no, your emoticon does not automatically make it better.

Sorry DE. You have to excuse us sometimes. You see, from our point of view, these kinds of innovations constitute “a different gospel” than the one that was delivered to us through the Apostles. If we were to embrace such ideas, we would be “anathema”, so we consider them to be smoke from the eternal fire.

It is not right to charge our separated brethren with such offenses, however, since you are only going off the truncated version of the gospel you have received. Since you never received the full gospel, you cannot be found at fault for abandoning it.

Bear with us in our passion for our faith. I am sure you can learn some things here.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Did Mary have other children? The Bible seems to suggest yes. Catholic Tradition says no. Which will you trust?

rev kevin,

I trust the Church that gave us the Bible, and preserved the scriptures and traditions through generation after generation.

Now, I believe if you copy and paste material from other websites, you’re supposed to give proper credit, according to the forum rules.

carm.org/did-mary-have-other-children


CONTENT RULES

1. Do not paste entire articles from web sites into a post. If you wish to reference an article on the web, link to its web address, instead.

Guidelines on posting articles to Catholic Answer Forums:

Avoid quoting from copyrighted works. Instead, paraphrase what is said and provide a link. If you do quote, limit your quotes to one to three paragraphs.

Let me tell you something else. If the Catholic Church is wrong, no other Christian Church can be right. Is this the conclusion you’re trying to sway Catholics too?

Also, you fail to consider the writings telling that Joseph had other children, from a previous marriage. If that were so, what would they have been considered in relationship to Jesus? You’re so busy denying everything Catholic that you won’t address a discussion honestly, but it is very clear you will copy and paste anything you can search and find on the internet. Didn’t you once actually copy and paste something from Satanists as proof to prove Catholics wrong, then a Catholic pointed that out to you?