Why do Catholics distrust Muslims?

[Kouyate42]

Why do I not trustr Muslims? 9-11 Read parts of the Quran. Plus how they run amuck over burning of it, how they give out justice etc.

A for instance: "“So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them.” According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam. Prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religions Five Pillars. - Quran 9,5 This taken from source thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm

Many wonderful peaceful passages. (Heavy sarcasm) It is no wonder the Muslim world do what they do. I do not trust them as their works plainly show I can not.

Edit: I have my opinion not because I am Catholic but because of common sense.

OK clever, even I can cite passages out of context and with little understanding.

According to my Qur’an, this passage refers to times when various peace deals with the pagan Quraysh had failed and when war was INEVITABLE and only then according to the strict rules of Islamic warfare, which means that war is only fought where Islaam is threatened, in self-defense and must only be done for so long as the threat remains. Yes, this may mean the death of those rebels and those threatening Islaam, but this is a natural process of war.

it must be mentioned that early in Islam’s history, the pagan kafiruun (Unbelievers), the pagan Quraysh and other tribes were fond of insisting on the Muslims fufilling their obligation with little interest in fufilling their side of the bargain with regard to any sort of peace agreement or treaty.

In

 

[exoflare]

war is only fought where Islaam is threatened, in self-defense

Yeah, they “defended themselves” all the way from Arabia to Croatia.

 

[Daralharb]

OK clever, even I can cite passages out of context and with little understanding.

According to my Qur’an, this passage refers to times when various peace deals with the pagan Quraysh had failed and when war was INEVITABLE and only then according to the strict rules of Islamic warfare, which means that war is only fought where Islaam is threatened, in self-defense and must only be done for so long as the threat remains. Yes, this may mean the death of those rebels and those threatening Islaam, but this is a natural process of war.

** it must be mentioned that early in Islam’s history, the pagan kafiruun (Unbelievers), the pagan Quraysh and other tribes were fond of insisting on the Muslims fufilling their obligation with little interest in fufilling their side of the bargain with regard to any sort of peace agreement or treaty.**

Kinda like Muslims today? LOL. Land for no-Peace, etc.

And why would the pagans fulfill their end of the bargain when the inevitable is that they must eventually convert? Why would Jews or Christians want to submit to dhimmitude once they know what is happening?

How on earth do Muslims continually divorce immutable moral reality from history by reducing the whole of the Quran and Mohammed to a case study in history with no application today? Jesus and the Apostles transcend time and culture, yet Mohammed is only sensible and applicable in 7th Century Arabia? Surely Allah jests.

 

[nickybr38]

I would argue something of the opposite. To identify under any label o religious beliefs entails hoding a certain set of beliefs as per what the holy book of that faith teaches or what religious authorities have deemed the truth, and viewing those who hold the opposite or differing views to be wrong.
And from what I can tell even from what I have seen on this forum this view leads to a certain amount of hostility from even the quietest of the group members towards anyone who is not part of the group. It is called in goup mentality by sociologists and by anthropologists.

But answering the initial OP,I would argue that Catholics are probably the least hostile and the least ditrusting of the Christian denominations with regards to Islam. From my own reading there has been much paal debate and interaction with various Islamic groups and figures, and much has been done to encourage religious tolerance within the Church.

Believing what I say is correct and what you say is incorrect does not lead to suspicion and distrust of those who are wrong. I’m not sure why it should be any different with religious beliefs.

If you tell me the earth is flat and I know you’re wrong because the earth is round, I won’t view you suspiciously.

Why is it because I say Jesus Christ was the son of God and you say He wasn’t that means we should view each other suspiciously or hostilely?

I’m sorry but I don’t believe religious beliefs MAKE people distrustful or suspicious. I think that suspicion and hostility comes from something else entirely. It’s called human pride.

You should see how horribly I was treated the other day because I misunderstood the Theory of Evolution. That had nothing to do with religion and yet I was torn a new one and then some by certain people. In the end some very kind (non-religious) people came in and gently explained to me what the Theory of Evolution is… but because I didn’t understand it properly the majority assumed I was an idiot and treated me like a leper.

That had nothing to do with religion and yet because they had truth and because they believed I didn’t I was treated a certain way.

Do you see what I mean? That has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with personalities. I contend the same is true when it comes to how people of different religions treat each other.

 

[Faris_Mee]

The current climate (last 100 years) is the result of christian crusades and conquest in the 19th & 20th centuries resulting in the tearing down of Islamic Law and communal fabric and replacing it with brutal dictator puppet regimes administering western alien doctrinal law and dividing the lands into a myriad of insignificant countries. The current turmoil in the muslim lands is due to no Islamic Sharia Law prevailing.

Jews and catholics and copts and maronites and assyrian christians have lived in peace within the muslim lands for over 1400 years. They existed as their own religious communities with access to their own courts and religious traditions. They were not subject to Islamic society law but they could nominate an Islamic court to settle a dispute if they so willed. The proof is that they still exist in the muslim lands up to today.

What do the catholics have to show for the last fourteen hundred years of religious minority tolerance? Where are your jewish communities? Where are your muslim communities? There are none. They were are all forced to convert, put to the sword or banished.

 

[Daralharb]

The current climate (last 100 years) is the result of christian crusades and conquest in the 19th & 20th centuries resulting in the tearing down of Islamic Law and communal fabric and replacing it with brutal dictator puppet regimes administering western alien doctrinal law and dividing the lands into a myriad of insignificant countries. The current turmoil in the muslim lands is due to no Islamic Sharia Law prevailing.

Jews and catholics and copts and maronites and assyrian christians have lived in peace within the muslim lands for over 1400 years. They existed as their own religious communities with access to their own courts and religious traditions. They were not subject to Islamic society law but they could nominate an Islamic court to settle a dispute if they so willed. The proof is that they still exist in the muslim lands up to today.

What do the catholics have to show for the last fourteen hundred years of religious minority tolerance? Where are your jewish communities? Where are your muslim communities? There are none. They were are all forced to convert, put to the sword or banished.

So, basically, there will be no peace until Islam is supreme in the land and the world- right?

You know why the West reacted to Islam the way it did? Because of Islam’s expansion into Christendom.

I’ll take Charles “The Hammer” Martel over anyone who prostrates toward Mecca, buddy.

I’ll take Jon Sobieski in the same. In fact, I’d rather be subject to outright Marxism than Islam if I am given a choice. At least the Marxists just admit they hate God instead of mocking Him with heresy and bloodshed.

The day I’m faced with Islamic superiority is the day I scratch my itchy finger with a curved piece of metal which actuates a sear, and sends forth a hammer, which sends forth a pin, which strikes a primer, which ignites a powder, which forms pressure and expels a conical projectile down a rifled bore and out of the bore into the flesh of anyone attempting to make Islam lord over me.

I am CRUSADER. I am Dar Al-Harb. I am your enemy and I love you for being mine. But, if you insist on acting in these roles, you will meet many like me.

To paraphrase Al-Hajjaj:

“Oh, people of Islam, I had come to you with two swords, one is for mercy which I have left back in the desert, and this one is the sword of Truth, which I kept in my hand.”

I’ll die a torturous death before I EVER submit to your system.

 

[Kouyate42]

Kinda like Muslims today? LOL. Land for no-Peace, etc.

And why would the pagans fulfill their end of the bargain when the inevitable is that they must eventually convert? Why would Jews or Christians want to submit to dhimmitude once they know what is happening?

Actually there is no insistence on conversion, as the Qur’an itself proves in that Muhammad (peace of Allah be upon him) himself made many peace treaties in his time, and even modern day Muslim countries see peaceful treaties with other religions. Islam teaches that there is no compulsion in religion, and that a forced belief/conversion is invalid.

As to dhimmitude, you misunderstand the term. Muslims in Muslim countries are obliged to give the zakah as a form of tax as such. Non-Muslims are free from this obligation, and the idea of paying so-called ‘dhimmi money’ is no different to any of us paying taxes now.

How on earth do Muslims continually divorce immutable moral reality from history by reducing the whole of the Quran and Mohammed to a case study in history with no application today? Jesus and the Apostles transcend time and culture, yet Mohammed is only sensible and applicable in 7th Century Arabia? Surely Allah jests.

If you think this, you are ignorant of Islam.

Islam is a living, vibrant religion, and itself transcends time and cultures. There is no such thing as one form of Islamic culture as any look at the wide variety of Muslim countries will tell you. Most Muslims recognize the need for a living Islam, one which is relevant to the culture and time of today, and this can easily be seen even in my own life.

I’ll use my own life as an example. I’m a British citizen, born here in Yorkshire. I was educated here and went to my local university where I earned my degree. I go out with friends on the weekends, drive a car, watch TV, cook Yorkshire puddings on a Sunday. I’m no different to any other woman here in the UK in terms of how I live my life (with some obvious differences) but the only outside difference is that I do all this proudly wearing the hijaab and a long dress. This goes for pretty much every other Muslim I’ve ever met.

Yes, there are a handful of fundamentalists who want to see us all return to the 7th century, but they are very much in the majority. And indeed, the same argument could be made of many Christians who seem to wish for something similar, a theocracy if you wish to call it that at the very extreme, or at least a very narrow interpretation of their holy book.

 

[exoflare]

Yes, there are a handful of fundamentalists who want to see us all return to the 7th century, but they are very much in the majority.

Freudian slip?

 

[Captain_America]

Proudly anti-Muslim.

 

[GraceDK]

I don’t go around distrusting Moslem persons.

But look, I might be quite good friends with a Communist. Oh yes, there are some of those around too, and if you read the political programs of groups to the far left (at least in my country) they clearly state that they see violent revolution as a legitimate means.
For that reason, I might befriend a person from these groups, and we might even live peacefully together… AS LONG as his group is in the minority.

Same with Hitler. He wrote a book while he was in prison in the 20s. He was just one man that everyone was ridiculing. 2 decades later he had caused an immense bloodbath… If people had just read “Mein Kampf” they would have known what Hitler intended. It was all in there… including the destruction of Jewry. But no one took it seriously. No one read it. Many, also in America and England, were fascinated with this strong Führer who united his people and created prosperity… for a while.

I have friends who are Moslems and even dated someone and thus got into the culture and heard and saw many things in the Middle East.
I think its very important to discuss Moslems and Islam as two different issues. But again I will say, only as long as they are in minority will we be safe in our countries.

If Islam was merely a spiritual system we would not have a problem with it. But now its an ideology with a political vision, and it always has been. It sounds bad when you hear in the news that a mosque was attacked… But mosques have always been political central like bunkers in the raids and wars in Islamic history.
The Quran and Hadith are the codes of Islamic behaviour, they are binding. Sharia law is part of that.

In my own country there have been studies that showed that most of the Moslems who have actually grown up in my country as free citizens have very anti-democratic ideas. Many of them think that religious criticism (of Islam) should be punishable by law. Some of them say blatantly that they do not believe in democracy, that democracy is not a valid form of ruling and that when the Moslems are in majority the Sharia will come.
Sharia is extremely dangerous and oppressive. No ifs and no buts.

I recently read the book: “I do not ask for my life”, by Marina Nemat from Iran. She clearly describes therein how brainwashed the serious Muslims are, so that they really believe they are doing the “infidels” a service if they punish them and supress them.

America is still in denial. You are also a big country. In the smaller European countries we see the development much faster, how Muslim immigration causes havoc.

One religion teacher at my school told her students about the life of Muhammad. She told them he had intercourse with one of his severel wives when she was only 9 years old. One Moslem girl in her class got very angry at the teacher and called her a liar. The teacher said: “Go home and ask your father, for he is an imam, right?” After a while the Moslem girl came back and said: “Its true, Muhammad did these things. I didn’t know” She was quite embarrassed.

All of these things are not pleasant. I used to be a big fan of multiculturalism, and grew up with the motto: “A stranger is a friend you have not yet met”. My whole population was like that. Today, 20 years later, the whole population has seen that not everyone is democratic and believes in freedom of speech…

youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4 here is another eyeopening interview with a muslim imam in England and his oppinions expressed in perfect English.
For anyone who will not see it, and think I’m a bigot, I will tell you, Muslim youth were dancing with joy in our streets and celebrating on 9/11…

 

[Sam_777]

If Islam was merely a spiritual system we would not have a problem with it. But now its an ideology with a political vision, and it always has been.

One religion teacher at my school told her students about the life of Muhammad. She told them he had intercourse with one of his severel wives when she was only 9 years old. One Moslem girl in her class got very angry at the teacher and called her a liar. The teacher said: “Go home and ask your father, for he is an imam, right?” After a while the Moslem girl came back and said: “Its true, Muhammad did these things. I didn’t know” She was quite embarrassed.

:dts:

 

[megazh0pa]

Actually there is no insistence on conversion, as the Qur’an itself proves in that Muhammad (peace of Allah be upon him) himself made many peace treaties in his time, and even modern day Muslim countries see peaceful treaties with other religions. Islam teaches that there is no compulsion in religion, and that a forced belief/conversion is invalid.

As to dhimmitude, you misunderstand the term. Muslims in Muslim countries are obliged to give the zakah as a form of tax as such. Non-Muslims are free from this obligation, and the idea of paying so-called ‘dhimmi money’ is no different to any of us paying taxes now.

If you think this, you are ignorant of Islam.

Islam is a living, vibrant religion, and itself transcends time and cultures. There is no such thing as one form of Islamic culture as any look at the wide variety of Muslim countries will tell you. Most Muslims recognize the need for a living Islam, one which is relevant to the culture and time of today, and this can easily be seen even in my own life.

I’ll use my own life as an example. I’m a British citizen, born here in Yorkshire. I was educated here and went to my local university where I earned my degree. I go out with friends on the weekends, drive a car, watch TV, cook Yorkshire puddings on a Sunday. I’m no different to any other woman here in the UK in terms of how I live my life (with some obvious differences) but the only outside difference is that I do all this proudly wearing the hijaab and a long dress. This goes for pretty much every other Muslim I’ve ever met.

Yes, there are a handful of fundamentalists who want to see us all return to the 7th century, but they are very much in the majority. And indeed, the same argument could be made of many Christians who seem to wish for something similar, a theocracy if you wish to call it that at the very extreme, or at least a very narrow interpretation of their holy book.

I truly mean no offense, but you are a muslim-student. I have deployed to the Middle East. For the most part the teachings and the practices are two different things. Please do not come into our house and call us ignorant. I know you do not really know what you are talking about yourself.

The Kurdish people were muslim too. The Northern Alliance of Afghanistan, they too were muslim. Both sects were targeted for extermination by other muslims.

Please do not get me wrong. Some of the great men I served with were Islamic. I would have killed or died to save save any of their lives. But what I was able to learn from them, Natives to: Bahrain, Pakistan, India, and Saudi Arabia; was that there are far worse prejudices within the Islamic sects, than the KKK has for blacks. I have seen what you do not really know.

 

[Kouyate42]

I truly mean no offense, but you are a muslim-student. I have deployed to the Middle East. For the most part the teachings and the practices are two different things. Please do not come into our house and call us ignorant. I know you do not really know what you are talking about yourself.

The Kurdish people were muslim too. The Northern Alliance of Afghanistan, they too were muslim. Both sects were targeted for extermination by other muslims.

Please do not get me wrong. Some of the great men I served with were Islamic. I would have killed or died to save save any of their lives. But what I was able to learn from them, Natives to: Bahrain, Pakistan, India, and Saudi Arabia; was that there are far worse prejudices within the Islamic sects, than the KKK has for blacks. I have seen what you do not really know.

And it seems you’re deeply ignorant of the tribal, political and social issues which surround much of the countries of the Middle East, especially in regard to their histories. To my mind at least, it seems you’ve ignored all of these factors and pared it down to a single factor which makes for an easy target. Islam is being made a scapegoat when in reality, it’s not that simple.

 

[Bev17243]

The current climate (last 100 years) is the result of christian crusades and conquest in the 19th & 20th centuries resulting in the tearing down of Islamic Law and communal fabric and replacing it with brutal dictator puppet regimes administering western alien doctrinal law and dividing the lands into a myriad of insignificant countries. The current turmoil in the muslim lands is due to no Islamic Sharia Law prevailing.

Jews and catholics and copts and maronites and assyrian christians have lived in peace within the muslim lands for over 1400 years. They existed as their own religious communities with access to their own courts and religious traditions. They were not subject to Islamic society law but they could nominate an Islamic court to settle a dispute if they so willed. The proof is that they still exist in the muslim lands up to today.
**
What do the catholics have to show for the last fourteen hundred years of religious minority tolerance? Where are your jewish communities? Where are your muslim communities? There are none. They were are all forced to convert, put to the sword or banished**.

this is so absurd that is not even funny. Whole Europe is full of Muslim immigrants, millions of them, who have their own communities, shops and even argue to have Sharia laws in these areas, now and TODAY. Im not even going to say what is wrong with that picture
If you want to talk about “put to the sword”, you need to take a good long look at history of Islam. RC do not allow “forced” conversions and there was no such thing. However, in Islam, it was always"either convert or die, or perhaps become a dhimmi, a secondclass citizen".

 

[Bev17243]

I don’t go around distrusting Moslem persons.

But look, I might be quite good friends with a Communist. Oh yes, there are some of those around too, and if you read the political programs of groups to the far left (at least in my country) they clearly state that they see violent revolution as a legitimate means.
For that reason, I might befriend a person from these groups, and we might even live peacefully together… AS LONG as his group is in the minority.

Same with Hitler. He wrote a book while he was in prison in the 20s. He was just one man that everyone was ridiculing. 2 decades later he had caused an immense bloodbath… If people had just read “Mein Kampf” they would have known what Hitler intended. It was all in there… including the destruction of Jewry. But no one took it seriously. No one read it. Many, also in America and England, were fascinated with this strong Führer who united his people and created prosperity… for a while.

I have friends who are Moslems and even dated someone and thus got into the culture and heard and saw many things in the Middle East.
I think its very important to discuss Moslems and Islam as two different issues. But again I will say, only as long as they are in minority will we be safe in our countries.

If Islam was merely a spiritual system we would not have a problem with it. But now its an ideology with a political vision, and it always has been. It sounds bad when you hear in the news that a mosque was attacked… But mosques have always been political central like bunkers in the raids and wars in Islamic history.
The Quran and Hadith are the codes of Islamic behaviour, they are binding. Sharia law is part of that.

In my own country there have been studies that showed that most of the Moslems who have actually grown up in my country as free citizens have very anti-democratic ideas. Many of them think that religious criticism (of Islam) should be punishable by law. Some of them say blatantly that they do not believe in democracy, that democracy is not a valid form of ruling and that when the Moslems are in majority the Sharia will come.
Sharia is extremely dangerous and oppressive. No ifs and no buts.

I recently read the book: “I do not ask for my life”, by Marina Nemat from Iran. She clearly describes therein how brainwashed the serious Muslims are, so that they really believe they are doing the “infidels” a service if they punish them and supress them.

America is still in denial. You are also a big country. In the smaller European countries we see the development much faster, how Muslim immigration causes havoc.

One religion teacher at my school told her students about the life of Muhammad. She told them he had intercourse with one of his severel wives when she was only 9 years old. One Moslem girl in her class got very angry at the teacher and called her a liar. The teacher said: “Go home and ask your father, for he is an imam, right?” After a while the Moslem girl came back and said: “Its true, Muhammad did these things. I didn’t know” She was quite embarrassed.

All of these things are not pleasant. I used to be a big fan of multiculturalism, and grew up with the motto: “A stranger is a friend you have not yet met”. My whole population was like that. Today, 20 years later, the whole population has seen that not everyone is democratic and believes in freedom of speech…

youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4 here is another eyeopening interview with a muslim imam in England and his oppinions expressed in perfect English.
For anyone who will not see it, and think I’m a bigot, I will tell you, Muslim youth were dancing with joy in our streets and celebrating on 9/11…

brainwashing is the name of the game

 

[Bev17243]

Actually there is no insistence on conversion, as the Qur’an itself proves in that Muhammad (peace of Allah be upon him) himself made many peace treaties in his time, and even modern day Muslim countries see peaceful treaties with other religions. Islam teaches that there is no compulsion in religion, and that a forced belief/conversion is invalid.

As to dhimmitude, you misunderstand the term. Muslims in Muslim countries are obliged to give the zakah as a form of tax as such. Non-Muslims are free from this obligation, and the idea of paying so-called ‘dhimmi money’ is no different to any of us paying taxes now.

If you think this, you are ignorant of Islam.

Islam is a living, vibrant religion, and itself transcends time and cultures. There is no such thing as one form of Islamic culture as any look at the wide variety of Muslim countries will tell you. Most Muslims recognize the need for a living Islam, one which is relevant to the culture and time of today, and this can easily be seen even in my own life.

I’ll use my own life as an example. I’m a British citizen, born here in Yorkshire. I was educated here and went to my local university where I earned my degree. I go out with friends on the weekends, drive a car, watch TV, cook Yorkshire puddings on a Sunday. I’m no different to any other woman here in the UK in terms of how I live my life (with some obvious differences) but the only outside difference is that I do all this proudly wearing the hijaab and a long dress. This goes for pretty much every other Muslim I’ve ever met.
**
Yes, there are a handful of fundamentalists who want to see us all return to the 7th century, but they are very much in the majority**. And indeed, the same argument could be made of many Christians who seem to wish for something similar, a theocracy if you wish to call it that at the very extreme, or at least a very narrow interpretation of their holy book.

handful? hmm, for “handful” of people they are surely wrecking a lot of haos in this world
As you your treatment as a woman-visit any Islamic country and you will change your mind pronto. the only reason that you are allowed to do all these things is only because you live in a Western country who gives you that right.

 

[Kouyate42]

handful? hmm, for “handful” of people they are surely wrecking a lot of haos in this world
As you your treatment as a woman-visit any Islamic country and you will change your mind pronto. the only reason that you are allowed to do all these things is only because you live in a Western country who gives you that right.

It’s a simple case that the people getting all the attention are the ones making the most noise, and in this case, it’s the fundamentalists.
Plus a lot of it is do with the media: they want news stories, and the average journalist knows that ‘sensational’ news stories make headlines or at least interesting articles, especially where religious matters are concerned. So to sell their papers/get people to watch their programmes, they put stories about sharia law in the West and honor killings.

As to the second part of this, there is a slight problem with this. Should I have been born into a family in Saudi Arabia, I would have been brought up with all the rules that women have imposed upon me according to Saudi culture and law, and the fact is that I would not know of anything different, and indeed I might simply accept it as many Saudi women freely do. But I’m not a Saudi women and my Islam and my life is different because I’m British and so raised in the British way. Same goes if I was born in Pakistan, Indonesia, China or any country with Muslims. Islam isn’t a heterogeneous culture which blankets all Muslims.

 

[Bev17243]

It’s a simple case that the people getting all the attention are the ones making the most noise, and in this case, it’s the fundamentalists.
Plus a lot of it is do with the media: they want news stories, and the average journalist knows that ‘sensational’ news stories make headlines or at least interesting articles, especially where religious matters are concerned. So to sell their papers/get people to watch their programmes, they put stories about sharia law in the West and honor killings.

As to the second part of this, there is a slight problem with this. Should I have been born into a family in Saudi Arabia, I would have been brought up with all the rules that women have imposed upon me according to Saudi culture and law, and the fact is that I would not know of anything different, and indeed I might simply accept it as many Saudi women freely do. But I’m not a Saudi women and my Islam and my life is different because I’m British and so raised in the British way. Same goes if I was born in Pakistan, Indonesia, China or any country with Muslims. Islam isn’t a heterogeneous culture which blankets all Muslims.

you still appear to be in denial about the true nature of Islam-I would encourage you to actually read Quran fully as well as hadith and don’t just ask your imam to explain it to you(as well as history of Islam). Whether you will choose the believe the facts or close your eyes to the unpleasant truth, the choice is yours:shrug:

Your second point makes no sense whatsoever-you seem to be trying to say that Islam is different in England from Islam in other Islamic countries? Islam is the same everywhere, its whether its has the ability to impose its laws upon its followers or not. I find it rather ironic that women in Islamic countries are treated as second class citizens and have no say in their own lives, have to cover their faces and bodies by law or face jail and beatings, but women in the West seem to be wanting to emulate that by wearing burqas, hijabs, or whatever else VOLUNTARILY. It boggles the mind. It appears in your case, you are tryingt to find acceptance and think that you will accomplish that by joining a religion. I wasn’t always a Christian and I read plenty of things about Buddism, Hinduism, Judaism, Islam and whatever else is out there. Out of all of these, Islam has the most appeal to the uninformed because it markets itself as having same roots as Christianity and Judaism and its quite attactive to most people who are not familiar with Christianity(or just have distorted view of it). Because I read and researched Islam thoughrully in the past, I can say with certaintly that I have never met a Christian who was well grounded and informed about his/her faith who decided to become a Muslim. Simply because the more you study Islam, the more it falls apart. Don’t forget-the punishment for apostasy(which also counts as leaving Islam) is death. Noone will kill you as long as you live in Western world. Things would be very different if you were living elsewhere.

 

[Kouyate42]

you still appear to be in denial about the true nature of Islam-I would encourage you to actually read Quran fully as well as hadith and don’t just ask your imam to explain it to you(as well as history of Islam). Whether you will choose the believe the facts or close your eyes to the unpleasant truth, the choice is yours:shrug:

I’ve read the Qur’an, partially in the original Arabic and partially in my native French and in English. I’ve also read the majority of the hadith and also on subjects such as Islamic history (something I studied at college actually) and more recently into fiqh and shariaah.

Your second point makes no sense whatsoever-you seem to be trying to say that Islam is different in England from Islam in other Islamic countries? Islam is the same everywhere, its whether its has the ability to impose its laws upon its followers or not.

Wrong again. Some Islamic countries such as Turkey have strong Islamic following but have little in the way of religious laws imposed on their citizens. Ditto Indonesia and Egypt too.

And saying Islam is the same for every Muslim across the world is like arguing that every Christian in the world is the same. Yes, the beliefs of Islam remain the same across the world, but the actual cultures of the people who follow those beliefs are very much different.

I find it rather ironic that women in Islamic countries are treated as second class citizens and have no say in their own lives, have to cover their faces and bodies by law or face jail and beatings, but women in the West seem to be wanting to emulate that by wearing burqas, hijabs, or whatever else VOLUNTARILY. It boggles the mind

I know that I wear the niqab entirely because I PERSONALLY made that choice to do so. Ditto the grand majority of Muslim women I’ve ever come across, from many different countries. In Muslim countries such as Tunisia, the full face niqab was actually quite rare until recently.
I should point out that covering the entire body and face veiling isn’t just common to Islam. There is a tradition of face-veiling in some forms of Orthodox Jewish communities,

. It appears in your case, you are tryingt to find acceptance and think that you will accomplish that by joining a religion. I wasn’t always a Christian and I read plenty of things about Buddism, Hinduism, Judaism, Islam and whatever else is out there. Out of all of these, Islam has the most appeal to the uninformed because it markets itself as having same roots as Christianity and Judaism and its quite attactive to most people who are not familiar with Christianity(or just have distorted view of it). Because I read and researched Islam thoughrully in the past, I can say with certaintly that I have never met a Christian who was well grounded and informed about his/her faith who decided to become a Muslim. Simply because the more you study Islam, the more it falls apart. Don’t forget-the punishment for apostasy(which also counts as leaving Islam) is death. Noone will kill you as long as you live in Western world. Things would be very different if you were living elsewhere.

I’m not just looking for a social group to join, I’m joining Islam because I believe it to be the truth. I’m actually a lot more well read in Christianity than you possibly think, including being able to read Koine Greek fluently and Latin as well, as well as having studied philosophy.
And the reason I left my church was because I could not lie to myself over the glaring problems of the Bible and of the entire Christian theological system. However I am willing to concede that if evidence was presented to me which offered me an adequate explanation, I would happily return.

As to the apostasy comment, this is simply incorrect. I have on my laptop an excellent article on this subject should it be something of interest.

 

[jakasaki]

And the reason I left my church was because I could not lie to myself over the glaring problems of the Bible and of the entire Christian theological system. **However I am willing to concede that if evidence was presented to me which offered me an adequate explanation, I would happily return. **

Seems like you above current post contradicts your statement from a few days back…

Refer to your posts from the 21st of this month… February - 8 days ago.

Re Thread: Catholics and Muslims - Your post #81

I was a Christian and I can say with a decent amount of certainty that I will not return to any church. I have too many doubts about the Christian faith.

Source of reply:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8987013&postcount=81

And here in another one of your replies…

Again:

Re Thread: Catholics and Muslims - Your post #91

I have said this before and I will say it again:** I will never return to a church ever again. This I can say with certainty**.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8989369&postcount=91

And now you are saying that …" if evidence was presented to me which offered me an adequate explanation, I would happily return. …"