T
- Status
C
CopticChristian
Guest
Merge,
My priest is adequate. I go to mass to go to mass. If I want as you say…
Then buy some Scott Hahn tapes and studies and you can listen to preaching/teaching for hours and if you want to get some education and entertainment with music, stories and a solid understanding of the Faith get the Audio Catechism USA for Adults…hours and hours of solid education so you can go to mass
and worship…only place on earth where Jesus is as alive today as ever…
preaching or Jesus…Hummmm…I’m gonna put preaching second…
1
1protestant
Guest
hebrews 6;4-8
relate to the people of that time going back to temple worship and sacrificing animals again to cover their sin , etc
it is inappropriate to apply it to the different demenations as a salvation issue–
correct context or
While exegesis attempts to determine the historical context within which a particular verse exists – the so-called “Sitz im Leben” or life setting – eisegetes often neglect this aspect of Biblical study.
Eisegesis (from Greek εἰς “into” as opposed to exegesis from ἐξηγεῖσθαι “to lead out”)
is the process of interpreting a text or portion of text in such a way that it introduces one’s own presuppositions, agendas, and/or biases into and onto the text.
The act is often used to “prove” a pre-held point of concern to the reader and to provide him or her with confirmation bias in accordance with his or her pre-held agenda.
Eisegesis is best understood when contrasted with exegesis.
While exegesis draws out the meaning from a text in accordance with the context and discover-able meaning of its author,eisegesis occurs when a reader imposes his or her interpretation into and onto the text.
As a result, exegesis tends to be objective when employed effectively while eisegesis is regarded as highly subjective.
An individual who practices eisegesis is known as an eisegete, as someone who practices exegesis is known as an exegete. The term “eisegete” is often used in a mildly derogatory fashion.
Although the term exegesis is commonly heard in association with Biblical interpretations, the term is broadly used across literary disciplines.
relate to the people of that time going back to temple worship and sacrificing animals again to cover their sin , etc
it is inappropriate to apply it to the different demenations as a salvation issue–
correct context or
While exegesis attempts to determine the historical context within which a particular verse exists – the so-called “Sitz im Leben” or life setting – eisegetes often neglect this aspect of Biblical study.
Eisegesis (from Greek εἰς “into” as opposed to exegesis from ἐξηγεῖσθαι “to lead out”)
is the process of interpreting a text or portion of text in such a way that it introduces one’s own presuppositions, agendas, and/or biases into and onto the text.
The act is often used to “prove” a pre-held point of concern to the reader and to provide him or her with confirmation bias in accordance with his or her pre-held agenda.
Eisegesis is best understood when contrasted with exegesis.
While exegesis draws out the meaning from a text in accordance with the context and discover-able meaning of its author,eisegesis occurs when a reader imposes his or her interpretation into and onto the text.
As a result, exegesis tends to be objective when employed effectively while eisegesis is regarded as highly subjective.
An individual who practices eisegesis is known as an eisegete, as someone who practices exegesis is known as an exegete. The term “eisegete” is often used in a mildly derogatory fashion.
Although the term exegesis is commonly heard in association with Biblical interpretations, the term is broadly used across literary disciplines.
1
1filipina
Guest
yesterday i was talking to a co-worker who falls into the category “non practicing or fallen away”
and as he said " when in 3 or 4th grade at the “sacrament of confirmation” nothing happened,
and he couldn’t find any of his play mates in elementary school that got spiritually confirmed-- so he figured that it was just a ceremony …
how do you tell someone that the sacrements don’t always produce “spiritual fruit”
i guess thay is why the music group “U2” wrote the song “i still haven’t found what i’m looking for”
So what do YOU tell some one who found that the Sacrament of confirmation didn’t work for them??
P
PRmerger
Guest
I tell them that most of the people who saw Jesus in the flesh didn’t see any flash of light or halo surrounding him.
If they went by that, then they would have denied his divinity.
It’s dangerous to go by how one feels to see if it’s true or not. That smacks of superstition.
T
Tigg
Guest
The catechism states the sacraments always give grace if we receive them with the right disposition. It also states that God immediately touches and directly moves the heart of man through sanctifying grace. However, the recipient’s own lack of proper disposition to receive the grace conveyed can block the effectiveness of the sacrament in that person. We must ask for the grace that actually is already present.
In other words, the sacraments are not magical and we must prepare our hearts in faith to receive them. 3rd or 4th grade is fairly young to fully understand the effects of Confirmation. One thing you could remind him is that Confirmation did indeed place an indelible mark upon His soul. And with a slight and sincere movement of the heart to return to the Lord, the necessary grace will be given to urge the soul forward toward the sacrament of reconciliation and full communion once again. And please remind him that frequent reception of the sacraments (again, with a sincere heart) increases the grace in his soul so that he might remain faithful and grow in holiness.
N
nora_b
Guest
I left the Church a good 25 yrs ago.
I did not feel that a human could be infallible by definition of being human.
I also don’t like the idea of priesthood exclusion of females. (congruent sentiment of mine with certain Protestant churches which I never considered)
I didn’t and still don’t think it’s a horrible sin to miss Mass because God is everywhere.
these are a few reasons for me.
I might return though oddly enough.
I did not feel that a human could be infallible by definition of being human.
I also don’t like the idea of priesthood exclusion of females. (congruent sentiment of mine with certain Protestant churches which I never considered)
I didn’t and still don’t think it’s a horrible sin to miss Mass because God is everywhere.
these are a few reasons for me.
I might return though oddly enough.
C
clem456
Guest
Hey my twin!
This is the way it worked for me:
I had no understanding of infallibility. In reality it’s not even an issue when properly understood. The real problem I had with Catholicism was ME. I accepted nothing that did not past the test of my own understanding, my own morality (immorality), my own rules, or my own comfort level. Catholicism required me to trust other people rather than to live in a one-man Church of Me.
S
SuperLuigi
Guest
I think if you really talk to people about it, you’ll often find some pretty selfish motives. Other times, it could be as simple as their parents stopped practicing or leveled it off too much.
Somehow, I doubt that not having the right feelings at Confirmation tells the whole story
C
clem456
Guest
Catechesis can be a serious issue but the root cause (as it is for all sin) is pride.
I was born into a very traditional all-Catholic all the time family, and was well catechized, and I still rejected the faith. Being part of the Church requires losing the “me”. Not the unique human dignity part, but the prideful self-sufficiency.
C
crazzeto
Guest
That’s a good point as well, I guess I was thinking of it in terms of why are there larger numbers now. Certainly pride will cause some to leave (my self included I suspect, though I was also not well catechized) but not knowing the faith to begin with makes the process so easy.
C
clem456
Guest
Yes. Thinking about the whole process… the pride had to be knocked out of me, then the faith began to make sense through some good catechesis.
JP2 helped me tremendously in that regard.
P
pickerij
Guest
I know why my wife Annmarie left the Catholic church once, but it’s a very long story. Are you ready? You might want to read this in bits and pieces.
We both grew up in the suburbs of Cleveland, but we didn’t meet each other until the summer of 2005. I had moved to St Louis in 1988 but came back to Cleveland for my high school reunion in 2005. I was staying with a classmate and her husband and was supposed to contact by classmate when I arrived at their house and found the key to get in. But I didn’t call. So, my classmate (who was at work) called up her neighbor, Annmarie, and asked her to go over to her house to see if I was there. Annmarie refused and hung up the phone. The first reason she refused and hung up was because I graduated from high school in 1974, and Annmarie graduated from high school in 1986 and didn’t have any desire to meet an “old guy” as she put it. (Note: In 2005, she was 37 and I was 50.) Fact is, I was in Cleveland to attend my high school Class of '74 50th Birthday Bash.
The second reason Annmarie hung up the phone was because she lived in an un-air-conditioned house, and it was 98 degrees that day. She was hot and tired and didn’t feel like moving. So she didn’t. My classmate called her three more times before Annmarie finally agreed to go over to her house to see if I was there. Since Annmarie was going to travel outside in the hot weather, she wanted to make sure it was worth the trip. So she asked my classmate, “Ok, I’ll go over there, but just out of curiousity, is he single?” Classmate replied, “Oh, he’s not your type, Annmarie.” Fast forward two more months, and we got engaged. Four months after that, we got married, in December 2005. So that’s the beginning of the story.
Now, back to the “why she left the church” question. Annmarie is a professional singer and actually met Pope John Paul II at the Vatican (she has a cool picture of her and the Pope) and also sang in the Notre Dame Cathedral in France. She’s also sung at weddings and other neat places too. I’m a military guy, so she’s also sung for several four-star generals at various military dinners.
Annmarie was used to singing in front of a lot of people and had no trouble doing that. Plus, she absolutely LOVED to sing in the St Malachi’s church choir in Cleveland, especially during Holy Week before Easter. But when she made the mistake of marrying me and moved herself and our two little ones (aged 3 and 7 at the time) from Cleveland to St Louis, she had to leave St Malachi’s Church and find another Catholic Church choir in the St Louis metro east area. She found one big Catholic church that had TWO large choirs, so she happily joined one of them. At St Malachi’s, a very large church, she was also the main cantor and got to sing a LOT during Holy Week. At her new church, she had to try out to be a cantor, which puzzled her. She’d come home and say to me, “I’m a professional singer. I have a nice voice. How come I have to try out to be a cantor?”
As you all know, one of the prayers sung during Holy Week is “Litany of the Saints.” Well, Annmarie had professionally recorded that prayer a few months earlier (if you want, you can hear a snippet of it here: www.cdbaby.com/cd/annmarie8). But, the choir director picked someone else to sing it during Holy Week. Turns out, the poor lady wasn’t a professional singer, got really nervous, and didn’t sing well, so that was a shame. We were all rooting for her to do a good job. Plus, the choir director also only let Annmarie sing on Easter Sunday, in the morning only. Annmarie was used to singing every day during Holy Week, in the afternoon masses and evening masses. Now she was only singing once in the morning on Easter. At this church, unlike at St Malachi’s, you kind of had to earn your stripes so to speak before they’d let you do things. Plus, there was an unfriendly competition between the two choirs. It wasn’t fun, so Annmarie left the choir and left the church.
That was then. Now, I’m happy to report she has found a new church and is singing a LOT and loving every minute of it. So, that’s our story. Now, did I bore all of you?
God Bless You, Jim.
We both grew up in the suburbs of Cleveland, but we didn’t meet each other until the summer of 2005. I had moved to St Louis in 1988 but came back to Cleveland for my high school reunion in 2005. I was staying with a classmate and her husband and was supposed to contact by classmate when I arrived at their house and found the key to get in. But I didn’t call. So, my classmate (who was at work) called up her neighbor, Annmarie, and asked her to go over to her house to see if I was there. Annmarie refused and hung up the phone. The first reason she refused and hung up was because I graduated from high school in 1974, and Annmarie graduated from high school in 1986 and didn’t have any desire to meet an “old guy” as she put it. (Note: In 2005, she was 37 and I was 50.) Fact is, I was in Cleveland to attend my high school Class of '74 50th Birthday Bash.
The second reason Annmarie hung up the phone was because she lived in an un-air-conditioned house, and it was 98 degrees that day. She was hot and tired and didn’t feel like moving. So she didn’t. My classmate called her three more times before Annmarie finally agreed to go over to her house to see if I was there. Since Annmarie was going to travel outside in the hot weather, she wanted to make sure it was worth the trip. So she asked my classmate, “Ok, I’ll go over there, but just out of curiousity, is he single?” Classmate replied, “Oh, he’s not your type, Annmarie.” Fast forward two more months, and we got engaged. Four months after that, we got married, in December 2005. So that’s the beginning of the story.
Now, back to the “why she left the church” question. Annmarie is a professional singer and actually met Pope John Paul II at the Vatican (she has a cool picture of her and the Pope) and also sang in the Notre Dame Cathedral in France. She’s also sung at weddings and other neat places too. I’m a military guy, so she’s also sung for several four-star generals at various military dinners.
Annmarie was used to singing in front of a lot of people and had no trouble doing that. Plus, she absolutely LOVED to sing in the St Malachi’s church choir in Cleveland, especially during Holy Week before Easter. But when she made the mistake of marrying me and moved herself and our two little ones (aged 3 and 7 at the time) from Cleveland to St Louis, she had to leave St Malachi’s Church and find another Catholic Church choir in the St Louis metro east area. She found one big Catholic church that had TWO large choirs, so she happily joined one of them. At St Malachi’s, a very large church, she was also the main cantor and got to sing a LOT during Holy Week. At her new church, she had to try out to be a cantor, which puzzled her. She’d come home and say to me, “I’m a professional singer. I have a nice voice. How come I have to try out to be a cantor?”
As you all know, one of the prayers sung during Holy Week is “Litany of the Saints.” Well, Annmarie had professionally recorded that prayer a few months earlier (if you want, you can hear a snippet of it here: www.cdbaby.com/cd/annmarie8). But, the choir director picked someone else to sing it during Holy Week. Turns out, the poor lady wasn’t a professional singer, got really nervous, and didn’t sing well, so that was a shame. We were all rooting for her to do a good job. Plus, the choir director also only let Annmarie sing on Easter Sunday, in the morning only. Annmarie was used to singing every day during Holy Week, in the afternoon masses and evening masses. Now she was only singing once in the morning on Easter. At this church, unlike at St Malachi’s, you kind of had to earn your stripes so to speak before they’d let you do things. Plus, there was an unfriendly competition between the two choirs. It wasn’t fun, so Annmarie left the choir and left the church.
That was then. Now, I’m happy to report she has found a new church and is singing a LOT and loving every minute of it. So, that’s our story. Now, did I bore all of you?
God Bless You, Jim.
F
ffg
Guest
I do think these are good threads because there is a huge audience and who knows what one reads might help them that day.
I have always found this statement to be true…
"People leave the Catholic Church because of a negative experience or because of something they do not like.
People enter the Catholic Church because they are seeking Truth."
What’s important to remember is that the People in the Church are still people in the same world as everyone else. To expect a person to somehow become something other than human because of the group they belong to (or their rank) is impossible.
That’s not to excuse sin, or the effect on other people of someone’s sin.
It’s simply reality that everyone sins.
Daily there are accidents that kill people, daily there are sins that hurt God and others.
No where on Earth are you going to find a place where bad things don’t happen to good people.
We are molded in our reactions to those negative situations. Do we run to the Church, or away?
I had one specific negative experience in the Church, it kept me away from confession for years because of the wrong advice I received in a confession.
Finally, I went to Confession again and it was obvious, that bad experience was just that one priest’s sin that kept me away from this great sacrament.
I have always found this statement to be true…
"People leave the Catholic Church because of a negative experience or because of something they do not like.
People enter the Catholic Church because they are seeking Truth."
What’s important to remember is that the People in the Church are still people in the same world as everyone else. To expect a person to somehow become something other than human because of the group they belong to (or their rank) is impossible.
That’s not to excuse sin, or the effect on other people of someone’s sin.
It’s simply reality that everyone sins.
Daily there are accidents that kill people, daily there are sins that hurt God and others.
No where on Earth are you going to find a place where bad things don’t happen to good people.
We are molded in our reactions to those negative situations. Do we run to the Church, or away?
I had one specific negative experience in the Church, it kept me away from confession for years because of the wrong advice I received in a confession.
Finally, I went to Confession again and it was obvious, that bad experience was just that one priest’s sin that kept me away from this great sacrament.
P
PRmerger
Guest
Wow. You didn’t bore me!I know why my wife Annmarie left the Catholic church once, but it’s a very long story. Are you ready? You might want to read this in bits and pieces.
We both grew up in the suburbs of Cleveland, but we didn’t meet each other until the summer of 2005. I had moved to St Louis in 1988 but came back to Cleveland for my high school reunion in 2005. I was staying with a classmate and her husband and was supposed to contact by classmate when I arrived at their house and found the key to get in. But I didn’t call. So, my classmate (who was at work) called up her neighbor, Annmarie, and asked her to go over to her house to see if I was there. Annmarie refused and hung up the phone. The first reason she refused and hung up was because I graduated from high school in 1974, and Annmarie graduated from high school in 1986 and didn’t have any desire to meet an “old guy” as she put it. (Note: In 2005, she was 37 and I was 50.) Fact is, I was in Cleveland to attend my high school Class of '74 50th Birthday Bash.
The second reason Annmarie hung up the phone was because she lived in an un-air-conditioned house, and it was 98 degrees that day. She was hot and tired and didn’t feel like moving. So she didn’t. My classmate called her three more times before Annmarie finally agreed to go over to her house to see if I was there. Since Annmarie was going to travel outside in the hot weather, she wanted to make sure it was worth the trip. So she asked my classmate, “Ok, I’ll go over there, but just out of curiousity, is he single?” Classmate replied, “Oh, he’s not your type, Annmarie.” Fast forward two more months, and we got engaged. Four months after that, we got married, in December 2005. So that’s the beginning of the story.
Now, back to the “why she left the church” question. Annmarie is a professional singer and actually met Pope John Paul II at the Vatican (she has a cool picture of her and the Pope) and also sang in the Notre Dame Cathedral in France. She’s also sung at weddings and other neat places too. I’m a military guy, so she’s also sung for several four-star generals at various military dinners.
Annmarie was used to singing in front of a lot of people and had no trouble doing that. Plus, she absolutely LOVED to sing in the St Malachi’s church choir in Cleveland, especially during Holy Week before Easter. But when she made the mistake of marrying me and moved herself and our two little ones (aged 3 and 7 at the time) from Cleveland to St Louis, she had to leave St Malachi’s Church and find another Catholic Church choir in the St Louis metro east area. She found one big Catholic church that had TWO large choirs, so she happily joined one of them. At St Malachi’s, a very large church, she was also the main cantor and got to sing a LOT during Holy Week. At her new church, she had to try out to be a cantor, which puzzled her. She’d come home and say to me, “I’m a professional singer. I have a nice voice. How come I have to try out to be a cantor?”
As you all know, one of the prayers sung during Holy Week is “Litany of the Saints.” Well, Annmarie had professionally recorded that prayer a few months earlier (if you want, you can hear a snippet of it here: www.cdbaby.com/cd/annmarie8). But, the choir director picked someone else to sing it during Holy Week. Turns out, the poor lady wasn’t a professional singer, got really nervous, and didn’t sing well, so that was a shame. We were all rooting for her to do a good job. Plus, the choir director also only let Annmarie sing on Easter Sunday, in the morning only. Annmarie was used to singing every day during Holy Week, in the afternoon masses and evening masses. Now she was only singing once in the morning on Easter. At this church, unlike at St Malachi’s, you kind of had to earn your stripes so to speak before they’d let you do things. Plus, there was an unfriendly competition between the two choirs. It wasn’t fun, so Annmarie left the choir and left the church.
That was then. Now, I’m happy to report she has found a new church and is singing a LOT and loving every minute of it. So, that’s our story. Now, did I bore all of you?
I am glad that she’s back singing, but, really…that’s why she left Jesus’ Church? Because a choir director didn’t choose her?
http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/facepalm/grand/disappointed_gif_44556.gif
D
doormouse73
Guest
think people should look at Job in the OT.
maybe Jonah aswell
then look at the prodigal son.
my answer would be a bit of those above,long with apathy,technology and the awful things that the Church has done in moving children to countries the other side of the world,in the fifties sixties.the recent thing with the priests.some blame the pope for this,i know its not him but that is what they feel…
in a round about way,they feel to many wolves i Catholic clothing.
maybe Jonah aswell
then look at the prodigal son.
my answer would be a bit of those above,long with apathy,technology and the awful things that the Church has done in moving children to countries the other side of the world,in the fifties sixties.the recent thing with the priests.some blame the pope for this,i know its not him but that is what they feel…
in a round about way,they feel to many wolves i Catholic clothing.
P
PRmerger
Guest
The sins of those in authority are troublesome indeed.
However, best not to look at those who don’t follow the Church’s teachings. Rather, choose to be Catholic based on what Catholicism proclaims.
P
PRmerger
Guest
I hope you do return home soon, nora!
Just a quick note: if you do believe that the Bible is the Word of God, then you do believe that human beings can be infallible. You believe that Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, Paul et al were infallible when guided by the Holy Spirit, right?
C
crazzeto
Guest
I hope you do return nora_b, and take the time to settle in and study up on some of these matters.
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