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nora_b
Guest
Good points there. and even non Catholic churches while they may not consider it a sin, highly encourage attendance of their worship services and the more fundamentals ones are insistent no doubt as well.
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PRmerger
Guest
Nora, if you have a problem with the Church’s teaching on divorce and re-marriage being adultery, I daresay you have a problem with Jesus himself. For the Church is only following the mandate made by Christ regarding divorce and re-marriage.
The Church cannot alter Christ’s teachings, no matter how unpalatable it may seem to us.
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Brandall
Guest
I’ve long known that some protestants take shots at Catholics. I’ve recently found out that Catholics also take their share of shots at protestants. I’ve also found out that the main enemy of Catholics seems to be other Catholics. You’re so right about there being a lack or Christian charity in some of these posts.If I may interject [Im the OP]
Having been extreemly active in teaching our Catholic Faith for more than 20 years at leveals from grades 4 through Hs; Adualt eucation and RCIA; I can attest [as this FORUM proves daily] that their ARE far fewer educated Catholics than under-eduatd ones.
A LACK of CHRISTAIN charity is counter productive.
Know our faith
Live our Faith
Share it Factually with clarity; charity and evidence to others too can KNOW and live it.
That my friends is the goal of CAF.
Our GOAL is to aid SOULS seeking help. ALL SOULS
Please be mindful of this fact and mission.
Correct with charity and facts.
God Bless you and THANKS!
pat/PJM
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Annabelle_Marie
Guest
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nora_b
Guest
understood. and as I post here, I do seek feedback from Catholics and am not here to cause consternation. Yes, I most certainly am expressing my unhappiness because I am processing and sorting out what direction I am going in. I am glad that non Catholics are free to join this forum and I am definitely participating in the topic here on point, so I am not here with intent to offend anyone. Just making sure to say this.
I do want to add though that I know countless, and I do mean, countless Catholics who far from follow the letter of the Catholic law. I’ll give some cases in point:
- one of the most profoundly Catholic women I know, who was a mentor to me did end up having a baby via IVF which I believe is still not permitted. I emphasize that this is a profoundly devout Catholic woman.
Now in this issue, is conception addressed in the Bible? Where did the Church draw the rationale for the decision against IVF? - Numerous friends miss Mass for weeks on end and beyond for trivial reasons and yet partake in the Eucharist without having gone to confession. (I’ve seen enough weddings and funerals alone with this issue–however, I independently know people who then go to regular Mass and do so, telling me that well, it’s still ultimately God forgiving them when they ask Him)
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Annabelle_Marie
Guest
Actually that was me that said he can’t claim to be a Christian. First of all…he admitted that he doesn’t want to get “hung” up on Jesus’s death. Well…to be a Christian (of ANY denomination) you have to believe in his death and resurrection. So while the poster was saying that Jesus was a good teacher…he only wanted to focus on a few of his teachings…and leave out all the rest of it.
From Wikipedia "Central to the Christian faith is the gospel, the teaching that humans have hope for salvation through the message and work of Jesus, and particularly, his atoning death on the cross 1Co 15:3 and resurrection 1Co 15:4. "
Second of all…he is no longer participating because he was banned. I don’t know what he was banned for but he was.
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PRmerger
Guest
It appears, then, that your grievance is against Catholics who don’t follow the teachings, rather than the teachings themselves?understood. and as I post here, I do seek feedback from Catholics and am not here to cause consternation. Yes, I most certainly am expressing my unhappiness because I am processing and sorting out what direction I am going in. I am glad that non Catholics are free to join this forum and I am definitely participating in the topic here on point, so I am not here with intent to offend anyone. Just making sure to say this.
I do want to add though that I know countless, and I do mean, countless Catholics who far from follow the letter of the Catholic law. I’ll give some cases in point:
- one of the most profoundly Catholic women I know, who was a mentor to me did end up having a baby via IVF which I believe is still not permitted. I emphasize that this is a profoundly devout Catholic woman.
Now in this issue, is conception addressed in the Bible? Where did the Church draw the rationale for the decision against IVF?- Numerous friends miss Mass for weeks on end and beyond for trivial reasons and yet partake in the Eucharist without having gone to confession. (I’ve seen enough weddings and funerals alone with this issue–however, I independently know people who then go to regular Mass and do so, telling me that well, it’s still ultimately God forgiving them when they ask Him)
If this is the case, then I suggest you base your decision on whether to return to the Church on the Church Herself, not on what other Catholics do who don’t follow the Church.
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Brendan_64
Guest
Because in order to carry out IVF several eggs are fertilised and then discarded. The Church believes that human life begins at conception and every fertilised egg is a human being. Therefore human beings are being deliberately killed during IVF.
That would seem to be a fairly straightforward rationale.
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PRmerger
Guest
It’s right after the verse that states that all we believe and practice in our faith must be addressed in the Bible.
It’s the corollary to the rationale for why the Church is against artificial birth control.
Sex is made for 2 purposes: babies and bonding, and the 2 cannot be separated.
Birth control eliminates the first part. No babies. But there is bonding.
IVF eliminates the second part. No bonding but there is babies.
Both are needed for sex to be moral.
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carmelitaspats
Guest
I left the church because of the sexual torture of children in my country. I found it horrific, grotesque and an insult to human dignity. Pro-life doesn’t just mean sitting outside an abortion clinic, screaming at women. It means confronting pedophilia even when it is among the ranks and not covering it up. Sexual abuse, rape,** KILLS** the very dignity of a human person and you don’t just “get over it”…Covering up pedophiles is enabling abuse and conspiring with active malice against the rule of law. Pro-life means SPEAKING OUT against the U.S. invasion of Iraq which was declared an immoral war by John Paul II. Pro-life means ADOPTING special needs children instead of donating cheap diapers to a local crisis pregnancy center. Pro-life means accepting special needs children in Catholic schools instead of pawning them off on the public schools because, “we don’t have the resources.” You raise tuition. Pro-life is NEVER half-*****. The Catholic Church is NOT pro-life.
I will NEVER return.
Patrick J. Wall’s blog on pedophilia, criminal liability and the Catholic Church:
patrickjwall.wordpress.com/
I will NEVER return.
Patrick J. Wall’s blog on pedophilia, criminal liability and the Catholic Church:
patrickjwall.wordpress.com/
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PRmerger
Guest
Do not leave because of people who don’t follow the teachings.
And be careful about displaying contempt for Catholicism here, carmelita. It is good for you to be here, but unless you tone it down you will soon be banned.
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Brendan_64
Guest
You do raise some good points, but on the US invasion of Iraq you have already pointed out that the head of our Church at the time, Pope John Paul II, condemned it. Regarding your points on special needs children in schools, yes you are correct in that our schools should welcome them with open arms, however the Church cannot be blamed because individuals choose to ignore its teachings on this.
On the pedophile cover-ups you do have a point. What many in the church hierarchy did was simply inexcusable and indefensible. They ought to be rooted out regardless of how senior they are.
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PJM
Guest
My friend, my message was not meant to isolate you. I’m concernd about the tenor and direction this thread seems to be heading
God Bless,
pat
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nora_b
Guest
Interesting thought there!
I wonder if perhaps it is in fact more an annoyance or like you said, a grievance that on paper these Catholic folks remain in good standing while I would not be should I return. Yet what they are doing is not with the Church’s teachings since it is quite a disregard of it, pretty much a willful one while I am earnestly seeking to reunite if it is possible. They have full rights while I wouldn’t. The ones who take the Eucharist while having skipped Mass and not receiving Penance know they are bucking the law. I know that it is something that ultimately God too knows, but it just goes back to them considered on paper as the whole good standing when they continually violate teachings. The Church cannot bean count every person who walks through each church door of course. It’s just the principle here.
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nora_b
Guest
Got it. Thanks. I actually forgot that I pretty much knew that.It’s right after the verse that states that all we believe and practice in our faith must be addressed in the Bible.
It’s the corollary to the rationale for why the Church is against artificial birth control.
Sex is made for 2 purposes: babies and bonding, and the 2 cannot be separated.
Birth control eliminates the first part. No babies. But there is bonding.
IVF eliminates the second part. No bonding but there is babies.
Both are needed for sex to be moral.
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PRmerger
Guest
Not sure what you mean by “full rights”, but if you mean they can receive the Eucharist, then, of course, you know that they can’t.
Is that what you mean by “full rights”?
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FollowChrist34
Guest
This may sound funny but I think the “gay mafia” is at work in my parish and I am thinking of leaving because of that. I am starting to believe there really is an active gay mafia out there based on what I am seeing. A very wonderful ‘orthodox’ Catholic priest is suddenly very downhearted and depressed all the time; he has always been pretty open about being conservative and supportive of Church teaching. It is obvious to me that the pastor and some other folks (musical director in particular) are bullying and ostracizing him. Atmosphere is getting very mean, lots of homilies about toleration and gay rights, I mean like three weeks in a row. Getting very clear you’re not welcome there if you don’t support gay rights. Parishioners seem uncomfortable. This one priest stands up for Church teaching and is being bullied, the pastor is aggressively against him and openly against Church teaching. What should I do? I am very uncomfortable but don’t want to leave the Church. How can you stop this if it’s really happening?
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seeker5133
Guest
I left the church as a result of not accpeting the idea of its necessity for or even the need for salvation.
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Brendan_64
Guest
Don’t concern yourself to much with what others do, that is for their own consciences to deal with. When we face judgement we will do so alone, and I doubt that a defence of “Lots of other people were doing things as well, and nobody seemed to bother too much about them at the time,” will stand up as a suitable defence for one’s own actions.You cannot do what others do, but you can control what you do.
It’s not about whether or not someone appears in ‘good standing’ on paper, it’s how one appears to the Lord that matters. In your case divorce and remarriage is a matter of public record. For many others who receive Communion when they shouldn’t, their offences are not a matter of public record. However they have no more right to receive Communion than you do If they choose to present themselves for Communion then that is considered a grave offence, but how could the Church know this when they present themselves?
Your remarrying is considered by the Church to be not a marriage, and that you are still married to your original spouse. Have you thought about investigating going down the route of annulment? A successful annulment of your original marriage could resolve your dilemma.
I don’t have much knowledge in this, but I would have thought that the first port of call would be to speak to an understanding, sympathetic (most are) priest to talk about what to do. You can, I believe apply direct to the tribunal office in your diocese, but it might be best to talk things through with the local priest first. There are also independent law firms that deal in Canon Law that you could contact.
But whatever you do, don’t let the behaviour of others prevent you from returning to the Church. Even if you cannot receive Communion, it is far better for you to be back in the fold of the Church and praying in the presence of the Holy Eucharist.
Good luck and God bless.
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