Why do catholics leave the Catholic Church

[GangGreen]

There are quite a number of people who live lifestyles that the Church doesn’t agree with. These people prefer the ways of the world over the ways of God… However, for others I think many people who leave the Church are just poorly educated in matters of theology. They understand very little of the Church’s teachings and instead go with what they are taught in school or by secular sources. Much of which is misinformation.

Part of this is a fault of RE programs and also the parents of the children. There are very many confirmed adults who hardly know the first thing about Christianity, let alone Catholicism. Of course at the end of the day it’s up to the person to make the choice, but having a strong knowledge of the faith is of utmost importance. We all know what happens when there is not a strong foundation…

 

[Christian_Soul]

I apologize if this has already been asked as I haven’t gone thru the entire 22 pgs of the thread. But it has always been my understanding the Catholic Church taught OCAC. IOW being baptized (or I would imagine confirmed for converts) in a Catholic Church makes one a member, even if only technically, with the indelible mark on their souls. So do Catholics actually leave the Church? Or is it more correct to say they leave the faith? Or the practice thereof?

 

[Brendan_64]

Because the only people I know who leave the Church are the ones that come back. Otherwise, I probably wouldnt notice. One of the reasons why I left is because of how some catholics that I know act. Thats probably why Im gonna delay on coming back even when Im ready to return to the faith.

That isn’t a valid reason for not coming back, or a valid reason for leaving in the first place. If you realise that the Catholic Church is the true Church created by God on Earth and you stay away from it (because you don’t like the way some Catholics behave) then you are choosing to turn your back on God and on salvation.

Being a Catholic is not about how others behave, it is about how YOU behave. How others behave should not have any impact on your own faith, if anything it should spur you on the be a better Catholic and lead by example.

 

[Elizabeth502]

I apologize if this has already been asked as I haven’t gone thru the entire 22 pgs of the thread. But it has always been my understanding the Catholic Church taught OCAC. IOW being baptized (or I would imagine confirmed for converts) in a Catholic Church makes one a member, even if only technically, with the indelible mark on their souls. So do Catholics actually leave the Church? Or is it more correct to say they leave the faith? Or the practice thereof?

They leave “the faith,” meaning “the practice of it.” They do not leave The Church per se, unless they ask formally for that as a specific request from their bishop. In doing so, they most often also attach to (become a member of) a different faith. That was explained by one of the friars on CAF 2-3 years ago. While it is not rare for a baptized Catholic to enter formally or informally into another faith tradition, it is uncommon to ask for formal severance.

The confusion arises when technical membership becomes equated with the worldview itself. They are not interchangeable. If one is not practicing (or substantially not believing), there is no dancing around that fact. I believe I quoted in the “Pro-Choice Catholics” thread something from JReducation that that said that, in stronger terms. (“Such Catholics have already left the Church.” Something to that effect.)

While a baptized member is “always” a member (assuming he does not formally renounce), being a member does not translate to authentic representation of the faith. (Not for any of us.) The authentic representation of that faith is communicated by the magisterium.

Logically, that follows. A person could adhere to a little bit of the philosophy of The Green Party, but be substantially at odds with its core platform. Perhaps he or she is a member for any number of emotional or social reasons, or because of attachments to certain people in the Green Party. But the membership, without the beliefs, has little meaning except perhaps as a card to wave around.

 

[ConstantineTG]

At least in my case it is not a lack of catechesis.

 

[PJM]

=Christian Soul;10744567]I apologize if this has already been asked as I haven’t gone thru the entire 22 pgs of the thread. But it has always been my understanding the Catholic Church taught OCAC. IOW being baptized (or I would imagine confirmed for converts) in a Catholic Church makes one a member, even if only technically, with the indelible mark on their souls. So do Catholics actually leave the Church? Or is it more correct to say they leave the faith? Or the practice thereof?

I GOT the “OCAC” but not the “IOW”?

Christian Baptism DOES leave an indellible mrk on ones Sould. Identfying that soul as a “child of God.” That can never be errased BUT it’s effects can and sadly; often are.

There is a REAL sense that when one CHOOSES to no longer be a practicing Catholic; that they then BECOME a “non-practicing Catholic”. [But IMO]; from a human and spiritual perspective a “non-practicing catholic” is the same as a non-Catholic. BOTH ought to consider “Fear of the Lord” as a priority in there lives.

God Bless you you!
Pat/PJM

 

[Elizabeth502]

IOW = In other words

 

[ConstantineTG]

I GOT the “OCAC” but not the “IOW”?

Christian Baptism DOES leave an indellible mrk on ones Sould. Identfying that soul as a “child of God.” That can never be errased BUT it’s effects can and sadly; often are.

There is a REAL sense that when one CHOOSES to no longer be a practicing Catholic; that they then BECOME a “non-practicing Catholic”. [But IMO]; from a human and spiritual perspective a “non-practicing catholic” is the same as a non-Catholic. BOTH ought to consider “Fear of the Lord” as a priority in there lives.

God Bless you you!
Pat/PJM

If people sever their communion with the Pope of Rome, then they are no longer “Catholic” in the sense of being part of a Church in communion with the Pope of Rome. Baptism makes us Christians, not a particular member of a Church or denomination.

 

[PJM]

=Brendan 64;10744847]That isn’t a valid reason for not coming back, or a valid reason for leaving in the first place. If you realise that the Catholic Church is the true Church created by God on Earth and you stay away from it (because you don’t like the way some Catholics behave) then you are choosing to turn your back on God and on salvation.

Being a Catholic is not about how others behave, it is about how YOU behave. How others behave should not have any impact on your own faith, if anything it should spur you on the be a better Catholic and lead by example.

Excellent reply and advice

Let us PRAY that many take it.

 

[Christian_Soul]

Baptism makes us Christians, not a particular member of a Church or denomination.

Except it appeared to me when Elizabeth 502 said “a baptized member is always a member” assuming he or she does not formally renounce to his or her bishop, that it means a baptized Catholic is always a member of the Catholic Church. Though perhaps just technically and an unfaithful member of course.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Except it appeared to me when Elizabeth 502 said “a baptized member is always a member” assuming he or she does not formally renounce to his or her bishop, that it means a baptized Catholic is always a member of the Catholic Church. Though perhaps just technically and an unfaithful member of course.

That doesn’t follow what Scripture says. Scripture says that, “for as many as has been baptized into Christ, have put on Christ.”

We are not baptized into the Catholic Church or Orthodox Church or Anglican Church, etc., we are baptized into Christ.

I ceased being Catholic when I no longer am in communion with any Catholic bishop. This happened when I was received as an Orthodox catechumen.

 

[Deltadeliquent]

People leave the CC because being Catholic is HARD.
Being Protestant is much easier.
Being completely secular is the easiest.

I’ve been Catholic and I’ve been secular. Now I’m home for good.
In all my travels I have never even considered another Christian church. Why go for a pale version of the truth when you can have the real thing?

 

[ConstantineTG]

People leave the CC because being Catholic is HARD.
Being Protestant is much easier.
Being completely secular is the easiest.

I’ve been Catholic and I’ve been secular. Now I’m home for good.
In all my travels I have never even considered another Christian church. Why go for a pale version of the truth when you can have the real thing?

How do you explain those who become Orthodox?

 

[Deltadeliquent]

I consider life in the Orthodox Church as hard as the Catholic Church.
I tend to lump the two together in my mind. I’m a Roman because my cultural heritige is Western European. If my cultural heritige was of Eastern European, I would be in the Orthodox Church.
No offence implied. We’re brothers.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I consider life in the Orthodox Church as hard as the Catholic Church.
I tend to lump the two together in my mind. I’m a Roman because my cultural heritige is Western European. If my cultural heritige was of Eastern European, I would be in the Orthodox Church.
No offence implied. We’re brothers.

I guess I’m just being defensive here. Because I am one of such who left the Catholic Church and became Orthodox. And it wasn’t for a lack of catechesis for me. I was a catechist in the local Roman Catholic Archdiocese and I attended the quarterly training and I have done my own reading and research to grow my own understanding. It sure wasn’t because I found it easier to be Orthodox. Stricter fasts and longer fasting periods, longer Liturgies, stricter disciplines, etc. It certainly wasn’t because of liberal ideas, the Orthodox are as conservative and much more old fashioned than Catholics.

I’m just trying to dispel here the idea that everyone who leaves the Catholic Church is because we’re either liberals or trying to find an easier brand of Christianity.

 

[Deltadeliquent]

Peace.
In thinking about it, I would find being Orthodox harder than being Catholic.
I don’t know much about it, but my impression is that there are more “rules” and fasts, etc.

In the past I left the CC partly because I was not in a community where Catholicism was valued or practiced. It’s really hard when you are the only one around you. I’m stillin that position and its still hard. It why CAF is so important to me now.

I can only imagine it even harder to be Orthodox for the same reasons. I don’t know where you live, but I bet there are fewer Orthodox in you community than anything else.

Again, I don’t mean any offence. As far as I am concerned the Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church are on the same level. Like two brothers but with different suits on.

 

[Christian_Soul]

That doesn’t follow what Scripture says. Scripture says that, “for as many as has been baptized into Christ, have put on Christ.”

We are not baptized into the Catholic Church or Orthodox Church or Anglican Church, etc., we are baptized into Christ.

I ceased being Catholic when I no longer am in communion with any Catholic bishop. This happened when I was received as an Orthodox catechumen.

So you’re saying the Catholic teaching of “once Catholic always Catholic” strictly in terms of technical membership of course, is unbiblical? What about the binding and loosing powers Catholics claim by whatever is bound on earth, is bound in heaven? I’m just not sure it matters under Catholic teaching if you no longer call yourself a Catholic unless you formally renounced with your Catholic bishop based on what Elizabet502 said.

Unless if you formally being received into the Orthodox faith makes a difference. But even that I’m unclear about. The Catholic Church may still consider you Catholic. I’m not sure. A Catholic who knows the Catholic Church’s answer will have to answer.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Peace.
In thinking about it, I would find being Orthodox harder than being Catholic.
I don’t know much about it, but my impression is that there are more “rules” and fasts, etc.

In the past I left the CC partly because I was not in a community where Catholicism was valued or practiced. It’s really hard when you are the only one around you. I’m stillin that position and its still hard. It why CAF is so important to me now.

I can only imagine it even harder to be Orthodox for the same reasons. I don’t know where you live, but I bet there are fewer Orthodox in you community than anything else.

Again, I don’t mean any offence. As far as I am concerned the Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church are on the same level. Like two brothers but with different suits on.

I live not too far from you, we’re in the same province

Yes, there are only a few Orthodox here. Surprisingly though, I get to meet more Orthodox than Catholics out in the field (that is, not in church). I don’t know, maybe the Catholics are more reserved? Anyway, that is for a different discussion.

 

[Christian_Soul]

I guess I’m just being defensive here. Because I am one of such who left the Catholic Church and became Orthodox. And it wasn’t for a lack of catechesis for me. I was a catechist in the local Roman Catholic Archdiocese and I attended the quarterly training and I have done my own reading and research to grow my own understanding. It sure wasn’t because I found it easier to be Orthodox. Stricter fasts and longer fasting periods, longer Liturgies, stricter disciplines, etc. It certainly wasn’t because of liberal ideas, the Orthodox are as conservative and much more old fashioned than Catholics.

I’m just trying to dispel here the idea that everyone who leaves the Catholic Church is because we’re either liberals or trying to find an easier brand of Christianity.

It seems you also dispelled the idea that poor catechesis is not always a reason when people leave the practice of the faith.

 

[ConstantineTG]

It seems you also dispelled the idea that poor catechesis is not always a reason when people leave the practice of the faith.

Here’s the thing, theology is such a complicated subject. If we are earnest in our desire to know the truth, at some point we really have to put some faith into it which is beyond reason. Honestly, smart theologians from both sides have debated the Papacy for centuries, and haven’t come into a conclusion. The Catholics believe their arguments are right, the Orthodox believe their arguments are right. How can we figure for ourselves which is right? We have to follow our own conscience and pray to God that He guide us to the truth.

So anyone who puts forth the effort and time to read into the issue can come to a conclusion on either side of the debate. I’m not saying that anyone who reads everything will almost always become Orthodox, or someone else will argue that someone who reads everything will almost always become Catholic. It is a complicated issue and as long as we do our due diligence and are honest in everything we do on our path towards one or the other, I don’t think God will take it against us. I’m not trying to promote indifferentism, but just trying to acknowledge the fact that some theological issues are really beyond us individually. So my point about catechesis is not to say that anyone who remains Catholic and not become Orthodox are poorly catechized. CS Lewis is brilliantly catechized, he remained Anglican. But if we put forth the effort and end up where we end up, how can God take it against us? This is where mercy and faith come in.