Why do Catholics often seem less than involved in their faith?

[Ilkka]

I have noticed this in many instances where Catholics either join together to celebrate Mass or in their private lives.

For example, many priests seem like they are trying to rush through the liturgy and not really leave room to actually soak in all that is actually taking place. And during liturgy, it seems that parishioners are often just rushing to complete a formula like their brains are wired for automatic responses that they don’t pay much thought to. And in their private lives it seems like their faith isn’t a big part of their lives when I think it should be THE defining thing in their lives.

I might be wrong, of course. I could have made false interpretations of things that aren’t really there. Maybe this is because I come from a protestant background where the internal experiences were the defining feature of faith.

What do you think? Is there even a hint of truth here or is it just my false interpretation?

 

[TK421]

Since I’m the first to jump in before the protests begin: yes, there is much truth to this claim, and I say this as an orthodox, practicing Catholic who also daily struggles to be a better Christian.

Catholics in the United States:

• donate less financial resources on average than evangelicals.
• volunteer and go to Church less on average than evangelicals.

Without a regular examination of conscience and a robust prayer life, a person also makes themselves vulnerable to going through the Mass with automaticity and without paying attention. Matthew Kelly talks about this a lot. Many reputed Catholic apologists, clergy, bishops, and the Pope openly acknowledge that this is an area where we can improve. A person should avoid being prideful and denying that this is problem within the Church.

If this bothers you a lot, it might be a good idea to plug in to a Catholic group that is very active with their faith. There are a great many all over the country. You can also look into areas within the liturgy that you can volunteer.

Peace.

 

[redal]

I might be wrong, of course.

Yes, you may be.

What do you think?

What I think is no more important as what you think…but for what its worth, I think your concerns are misplaced, but then again, that is only in my opinion.

many priests seem like they are trying to rush through the liturgy and not really leave room to actually soak in all…parishioners are often just rushing to complete a formula like their brains are wired for automatic responses …

I am grateful for “rushing” by the priest, especially morning mass when I want to pay homage to the Lord, but also have to get to work. If we prepare ourselves for mass, by pondering the readings ahead of time, the thought process is not impeded.

I can’t control or pretend to understand the motives and hearts of parishioners, but only my own. So, I worry about myself, and join in the prayers of the faithful, and include and intention without judgment for all the faithful.

 

[redal]

Catholics in the United States:

• donate less financial resources on average than evangelicals.
• volunteer and go to Church less on average than evangelicals

All laudable endeavors, but because one donates less time, treasure, or talent is not an indicator of what is in their heart, or what is pleasing to the Lord.

1 Samuel 15:22; Psalm 56:16-17; Hosea 6:6; Proverbs 21:3; Amos 5:21-24; Mark 12:3; Matthew 9:13; Micah 6:6-8; Jeremiah 7:22-23; Psalm 40:6-8; Isaiah 1:11-17; Ecclesiastics 5:1; Matthew 12:7; Psalm 50:8-9; Matthew 5:24; Jeremiah 26:13; Jeremiah 11:17; Exodus 9:14; Jeremiah 11:4

 

[debgab]

I think looks can be decieving. At the end of the Mass when the priest says " the mass has ended, go in peace", what happens afterwards when we all leave the church and go on about our daily lives. Did it produce the fruit to touch our families, friends, the world? And what does that look like for each of us? Maybe living with the many difficulties, sorrows is easier to bear or has more meaning. Maybe just becoming a living example to those in need. In need of compassion, understanding, material things in order to live …just a few examples.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

It would be good if you didn’t make assumptions about what other people are thinking during Mass. Maybe concentrate more on your own personal holiness and don’t judge others based on externals.

I personally am aware of one lector and some Catholics who read/pray very s-l-o-w-l-y and it doesn’t allow me to “soak in” anything. It’s annoying because it doesn’t “flow”, it’s not at a comfortable pace, it’s sometimes like listening to someone who is just learning to read. When I have to listen to these people I offer up my annoyance to the Lord as penance.

We all have different tempos we read and pray at. If you like it slower, perhaps the priest and other Catholics like it faster. Also if it’s early morning Mass before work, many people have limited time as they need to get to work on time. Many people also may be still not quite awake, but when the only Mass you can get to on a weekday is 6:30 am, you do the best you can and the Lord appreciates that you made the effort to attend on a day when it wasn’t required.

And as someone else said, the real test is what people do with the grace of God and message of God when they leave the church, not whether in the opinion of some random onlooker they prayed too fast or didn’t look holy enough.

 

[stoplooklisten]

Prayer, almsgiving and fasting are recommended at Lent and throughout the year. When done according to Jesus’s Sermon on the Mount, they are done without fanfare and even in secret.

 

[Sarcelle]

Catholics in the United States:

• donate less financial resources on average than evangelicals.
• volunteer and go to Church less on average than evangelicals.

How do they get these metrics?

As for financial donations, I do donate financially but do not claim them on my taxes. I’m sure I’m not the only one. The number may be an underestimation.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

The question of whether Catholics “on average” go to church less and donate less is different from the OP complaining about people who are AT church but in their opinion not appearing holy enough while they’re there.

Also, I can’t do much about what billions of other Catholics might do except pray for them and witness by going to Mass frequently myself and donating.

And on top of that, all this is being posted to a forum where most of the participants are going over and above minimum requirements for Catholics on a daily basis. What is the point of posting to a whole slew of devout people complaining that others who don’t read this forum aren’t devout enough?

To address your point, there are far fewer Evangelicals than Catholics, and usually only those who are active in a church would be considered Evangelical. If you dont donate and show up regularly, the churches dont consider you a member. Catholics have much bigger numbers, and do not determine who’s Catholic based on attendance or on who’s tithing. That alone skews the statistics.

Not saying that there aren’t Catholics who could do more, we could all always do more, but comparison to Evangelicals is not a good one. Comparison to mainline Protestant churches would make more sense.

 

[Sarcelle]

And during liturgy, it seems that parishioners are often just rushing to complete a formula like their brains are wired for automatic responses that they don’t pay much thought to.

How do you know this exactly?

Just because there’s not that much emotions on display doesn’t mean responses are formulated and automatic.

I know a lot of Evangelical worship services are heavy on emotional displays which frankly doesn’t sit well with me.

I like the more cerebral experience.

 

[1ke]

This is a big of’ assumption. And you know what they say about those.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

If one wants to see openly emotional Catholicism, one could attend a charismatic Mass. And then we get threads like the one posted yesterday complaining that such a Mass is too “Protestant” and other negative things.

I really feel like you can’t win with these forums.

 

[TK421]

And on top of that, all this is being posted to a forum where most of the participants are going over and above minimum requirements for Catholics on a daily basis. What is the point of posting to a whole slew of devout people complaining that others who don’t read this forum aren’t devout enough?

Because the OP is a new convert and this is often something that people from an evangelical background find difficult, and those feelings are perfectly valid and perfectly understandable and the hierarchy of the Church has been very open in admitting these shortcomings and these challenges. The New Evangelization addresses this challenge, among others.

I’ve been here long enough to know that the majority of the responses would be defensive and in my opinion that kind of response is not at all helpful and perhaps selfish in nature.This website is primarily for people looking into the faith or coming back to the faith. The rest of us who regularly hang around here come second.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Sorry, but it’s just common sense to me that if you’re a new member of a club, you don’t go on the message forum for all the most active members and start complaining about how lazy all the people you see at your local club meetings act.

Such a question is better discussed one on one with the new member orientation leader.

I echo what 1ke said about assumptions. To assume is simply wrong behavior. The Scripture says over and over again don’t judge, don’t assume based on appearances, and that an outward appearance of holiness at prayer time might be false. If somebody came from an Evangelical background they should be knowing and following this Scripture already.

 

[TK421]

I did not interpret the OP to be complaining. I rarely do. You are of course correct that RCIA would be a better platform to talk about it, but sometimes the internet is a good way for a person to dip their toes in the water.

In my opinion, this forum sometimes does a lot of harm to newbies in the faith because of a misplaced zeal to defend the Church. I’ve seen it too many times.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

In my opinion, many of the people who post here simply show up to attack the Church, fostering this mentality.

The OP is not one of those since they are in RCIA, but for every person like the OP, there are 10 others who are just here to throw brickbats.

 

[TK421]

I don’t agree, but of course I can’t read peoples minds either. I think it is much more of a mixed bag.

A person should assume innocence and never assume guilt.

 

[fide]

This question, in various ways specific and general, is asked many times on this Forum. The responses are largely very similar: “how do you know” - “Can you read their hearts” - “mind your own business” - “tend to your own soul” - “pray for them” - “statistics are misleading or wrong or true for other faiths also” — and sometimes: “yes, it grieves me too.” That last one is my response. It is heartbreaking to see the state of the Catholic Faith in this country, and in many places in the world, these days. And it is not limited to the Catholic Church - not at all.

The one word that I think covers much of the problem is lukewarm - tepid - asleep. Such a church is described in Revelations:

To the Church in Laodicea
Rev 3:14 "And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: 'The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God’s creation.
Rev 3:15 “'I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were cold or hot!
Rev 3:16 So, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew you out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing; not knowing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked.
Rev 3:18 Therefore I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, that you may be rich, and white garments to clothe you and to keep the shame of your nakedness from being seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, that you may see.
Rev 3:19 Those whom I love, I reprove and chasten; so be zealous and repent.
Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if any one hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.
Rev 3:21 He who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I myself conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.
Rev 3:22 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’”

So the problem is not new. What is new, maybe, is the pervasive, widespread commonness of such a ho-hum response to the holy. We weep too rarely, we cry out seldomly. Do we ever tremble before the Lord, in His Presence and hearing His Word? Do we fall to our knees in heart-pierced reverence ever? Does the beautiful faith of a brother or sister bring holy tears of joy to our eyes, ever?

Enough said. There is much lacking among us in our Church today, brothers and sisters.

 

[Sarcelle]

People like to complain.

I’m complaining about people complaining.

 

[TK421]

People like to complain.

Allegedly, Jesus Christ did a lot of “complaining” also.

Except, of course, expressing dissatisfaction = / = complaining. Complaining implies that a person wants to vent without actually being part of a solution.