Why do Catholics often seem less than involved in their faith?

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fide said:
The responses are largely very similar: “how do you know” -
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It is a valid response.

How does one know about the faith of others by superficial examination of their responses in mass? Unless one is a mind reader which I doubt the OP is?

You can say a lot of Catholics are Catholics in name only and I agree. However we determine this by how they live the faith in their daily lives not by how one responds in mass.

I bet you those nominal Catholics don’t even go to mass.
 
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fide said:
Do we ever tremble before the Lord, in His Presence and hearing His Word? Do we fall to our knees in heart-pierced reverence ever? Does the beautiful faith of a brother or sister bring holy tears of joy to our eyes, ever ?
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Personally speaking, yes to all of the above.

However if one were to observe me in mass, I come across as reserved. This should not mean that I am a lukewarm Catholic.
 
redal said:
All laudable endeavors, but because one donates less time, treasure, or talent is not an indicator of what is in their heart, or what is pleasing to the Lord.
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Jesus’ own words “where your treasure is, there will your heart be also”.
 
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I am not deflecting or denying.

I am merely saying that a lot of us do contribute substantially but do not claim on their taxes.

I also contribute online so I don’t put anything in the collection basket. I’m sure a lot of people do the same.

Someone who sees me not drop anything will come to the erroneous conclusion that I don’t contribute at all.
 
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I am not deflecting or denying.
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And I am not saying that you are deflecting or denying. I have been very careful to speak in a general sense.
Sarcelle said:
I am merely saying that a lot of us do contribute substantially but do not claim on their taxes.

I also contribute online so I don’t put anything in the collection basket. I’m sure a lot of people do the same.

Do someone who sees me not drop anything will come to the erroneous conclusion that I don’t contribute at all.
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Collections are recorded by people in the parish, wherever those streams may come from. Catholics don’t contribute time or treasure as much as evangelicals do. Evangelicals who come to the faith are frequently upset by this. Their feelings are reasonable and valid and understandable and they should not be scolded for expressing their concerns.

And God forbid that we take it personally. That is absolutely the last thing we should do.
 
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When I first came to the church I had similar thoughts, but the more plugged in I get the more obvious it becomes to me that people are really keyed into their faith and are doing their best to live it out.

You really can’t judge by how quickly the mass is said or how someone acts in the pew. You can’t read their hearts. Best to focus on growing your faith and getting involved in your parish.
 
TK421 said:
Without a regular examination of conscience and a robust prayer life, a person also makes themselves vulnerable to going through the Mass with automaticity and without paying attention.
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This is exactly my concern.
TK421 said:
If this bothers you a lot, it might be a good idea to plug in to a Catholic group that is very active with their faith.
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Not too many Catholics around but I can see if there is a group like that here.
redal said:
I am grateful for “rushing” by the priest, especially morning mass when I want to pay homage to the Lord, but also have to get to work.
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I understand where you’re coming from. I’m primarily talking about Sunday Mass here.
redal said:
So, I worry about myself, and join in the prayers of the faithful, and include and intention without judgment for all the faithful.
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I’m a new Catholic that hasn’t quite yet been fully reconciled with the Church. Many of the Catholic customs are new to me. That’s why I also refrained from making a judgement and instead asked for Catholic to give their thoughts in the matter in case there is some explanation that I hadn’t thought about. 🙂
Tis_Bearself said:
It would be good if you didn’t make assumptions about what other people are thinking during Mass.
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I’m not talking about just what happens during Mass but also in the lives of individual Catholics. Besides, I didn’t make assumptions but rather expressed genuine curiosity. That’s why I said ’it seems’ as a subjective notion and asked for you guys to tell me what you think.
Tis_Bearself said:
I personally am aware of one lector and some Catholics who read/pray very s-l-o-w-l-y and it doesn’t allow me to “soak in” anything.
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Maybe I should’ve phrased my thoughts a little better. I mean the overall appearance of things only one of the things being the fast pace. Another thing that seems odd is that some priests seem to go through the Liturgy in a very monotonous voice that sounds like the priest just wants to spit out the words without giving them any actual thought. But again, that is just how it appears to me. I can’t help but feel it that way and I rather ask about it than keep it to myself and maybe let it turn into assumptions further along the road. 🙂
 
Sarcelle said:
How does one know about the faith of others by superficial examination of their responses in mass? Unless one is a mind reader which I doubt the OP is?
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The key word you use is “superficial”.

The Church not only “is supposed to be”, it actually IS a family - brothers and sisters in Christ. Participants in the Mass are actually supposed to be participants - not spectators, not audience members, not tourists: participants, offering with the priest the sacrifice of the Mass:
Catechism 1141 - The celebrating assembly is the community of the baptized who, “by regeneration and the anointing of the Holy Spirit, are consecrated to be a spiritual house and a holy priesthood, that through all the works of Christian men they may offer spiritual sacrifices.”<LG 10; cf. 1 Pet 2:4-5> This “common priesthood” is that of Christ the sole priest, in which all his members participate:<Cf. LG 10; 34; PO 2>

Mother Church earnestly desires that all the faithful should be led to that full, conscious, and active participation in liturgical celebrations which is demanded by the very nature of the liturgy, and to which the Christian people, “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a redeemed people,” have a right and an obligation by reason of their Baptism.<SC 14; Cf. 1 Pet 2:9; 2:4-5>
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That “full, conscious, and active participation” is saying a lot. Part of that “full consciousness” is an awareness of the brothers and sisters around us because we ARE FAMILY. I won’t try to enumerate how, specifically, one can become aware of the “family” around us - not only in the Mass, but in the conversations before and after , walking to the church and away from it afterwards, conversations in the “Social Hall” around coffee and doughnuts, participation in certain activities - absence in certain activities, etc. etc. Someone who cares what is going on, will observe - often painfully - what is present and what is absent.
 
I think you paint with a large a brush. Your observations likely have some validity. But a church with so many certainly falls outside of your observation predominantly.
Perhaps certain Protestant churches do in fact exhibit enthusiasm . This is a success and should be thought of as such.
There is the idea of reward in heaven vs reward via the esteem of others. Appearances carry their own dangers.
 
I absolutely know that. If they weren’t, the world would be completely different.

As for everyone giving different definitions of lukewarm, I’d attribute that to not wanting to include ourselves. The description in the question is a good start for a definition. As someone who still struggles not to be lukewarm, I’d say a lukewarm Catholic is one that always spends Mass planning their day and can’t wait for Mass to be over. One that spends the car ride home criticizing the homily and little to no time reflecting on Mass. One who’s prayer life might only consist of habitually praying before meals, and maybe 5 minutes before bed making “wishes”. One that does not participate in the parish outside of Mass. One that only donates “extra”, or practices the virtues in so much as it doesn’t deprive them of anything. One that does not practice the virtues and corporal works of mercy in public, but rather spends more time gossiping. One that does not regularly go to Reconciliation and regards themselves as better than most. One that receives Communion without considering their state of grace.
 
Sarcelle said:
Personally speaking, yes to all of the above.

However if one were to observe me in mass, I come across as reserved. This should not mean that I am a lukewarm Catholic.
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And honestly, we should not have to justify ourselves to others and explain how we feel internally about our faith, Jesus, etc.
Plus when we show emotion by defending the faith on here we get labeled “Defensive”.

Again, you can’t win unless you just want to agree with every Negative Nancy on the forum, which would be difficult given that some of them are disagreeing with each other.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
Again, you can’t win unless you just want to agree with every Negative Nancy on the forum, which would be difficult given that some of them are disagreeing with each other.
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A person doesn’t have to agree with everything they say hook, line, and sinker, but they can empathize and acknowledge what the person might be upset about and then offer a solution to help them. This is especially true if the person is a newbie to the faith and still getting grounded.

I have seen other threads like this over the years and there seems to be a divide between converts and cradle Catholics, and cradle Catholics seem to have a hard time understanding why this particular issue can be a struggle. The most common response is to become defensive and I believe this can push the person further away and makes them apprehensive to ask further questions.

I do not in anyway think cradle Catholics are “less”, however the lack of perspective from the other side can be a problem in this particular case, in my opinion.
 
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I find threads like this disturbing. If one wants to talk about their own internal disposition, that’s fine. But to speculate on the internal disposition of others - including clergy - IMO is out of line.
 
Certainly this problem exists. But we need to be real careful about judging the interior dispositions of others. If someone seems to you that they are not sincere in their faith , assume they are , and give the benefit of the doubt,

maybe say a hail Mary for them and avoid placing a judgement,

During the cannonisation process for St Pius X, the devil s. Advocate (who’s job it was to raise potential objections ) raised the concern about Pius X saying the mass to fast. Lol
Yet, As we all know , this mans devotion to the Faith was heroic . So we got to be careful to avoid judging persons internal dispositions .
 
I don’t mean that I observe people and make judgements. I don’t look around the pews and think, “Those people are definitely lukewarm”. Rather, it is simply obvious by the state of the world, and the sheer number of us that identify as Catholic, that most of us are lukewarm.
 
I think one thing to note in the diffence between Protestant gatherings and Catholic Mass is the number of responsibilities the priest has during and outside of the Mass. I speak only from my experience at my friend’s Baptist gatherings, which obviously won’t represent all Protestant gatherings, but the Catholic Mass is not a party to fire people up for evangelization. The focus is reverence for the Eucharist.

Perhaps a bible study group would allow you to dig into the Word and talk about living it to the degree you seek. Don’t be discouraged, because that is also very important to being Catholic. The energy protestants have is great. Many of the apologists for Catholic Answers are converts, including my favorite, Trent Horn. Converts I’ve experienced are usually very devout given that they sought and chose the truth and aren’t just Catholic because they were dropped off at CCD most Sundays of their childhood.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
And honestly, we should not have to justify ourselves to others and explain how we feel internally about our faith, Jesus, etc.
Plus when we show emotion by defending the faith on here we get labeled “Defensive”.

Again, you can’t win unless you just want to agree with every Negative Nancy on the forum, which would be difficult given that some of them are disagreeing with each other.
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The Persons we have to please are those of the Trinity. They have invested much in us! They have the right to expect much in return. In fact, more than “much” - we owe God our all. And the Church - as Church - owes the members, personally, much - because much has been entrusted to her by our Master. I am less troubled by lukewarm members than I am by our “leaders” who in many, many instances are not calling us and empowering us with zeal to our God-given vocation to holiness. When the leaders are lukewarm, many members follow their invitation to be the same.
 
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