Well said …
JL: Phil, I hope this might help somewhat: If you have in your home, pictures (images), toy soldiers (images), dolls (images), figurines (images) or any man made likeness of anything in heaven, on earth beneath or in the water. You are breaking the commandment if you interpret it as idolatry for making and having images. If you visit DC and go to a war shrine with images, are they idols? Check the parking lot this Sunday to see how many, who condemn making images, have an image of Christ in the likeness of a fish on their car. The fish, which is found in the water, is one of the earliest Christian images for Christ. A literal interpretation would make this an idol.
JL: Hope this will help. JL: Communion of Saints: There were no saints in heaven before the resurrection and ascension of our Lord to ask for prayer, but now we have access through the body of Christ to all the heavenly host. HB 12:22 But YE ARE COME TO mount Sion…to the CITY OF THE LIVING GOD the heavenly Jerusalem…TO an innumerable COMPANY OF ANGELS 23 TO the general assembly and church of THE FIRSTBORN…TO GOD the Judge of all…TO THE SPIRITS OF JUST MEN MADE PERFECT 24…TO JESUS THE MEDIATOR of the new covenant. Assembly and church of the firstborn=those on earth who’s names are written in the book of life. The spirits of just men made perfect=the souls of saints in heaven to whom one may come, just as we come to Jesus seeking help. HB 12:1 …WE also ARE COMPASSED ABOUT WITH SO GREAT A CLOUD OF WITNESSES let us LAY ASIDE EVERY WEIGHT… Compassed about by a great cloud of witnesses. I have heard Billy Graham and other Protestants along with bible commentaries, describe the cloud of witnesses, as if the heavenly saints are looking down on a stadium field viewing the saints on earth. Why would they not pray for us? In heaven will you not ask Christ to help a loved one you see in need? We can lay aside every weight as we have many in heaven interceding=praying for us. When I was Protestant, I heard some testify they felt the presents and help of a deceased loved one and everyone said, AMEN. LK 15:7…likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth…10 Likewise I say unto you there is joy in the PRESENCE OF THE ANGELS of God over one sinner that repenteth. Saints in heaven know when a sinner repents and rejoice in the presence of angels. If they know when one repents, why can they not know the prayers of the saints on earth? Jesus talking about a woman who lost a coin, when she found it, she called her friends and neighbors to rejoice with her. So also the saints and Angels rejoice when a lost soul is found. it is not Jesus and me, but Jesus and us the entire body of Christ through which the Spirit flows. Through the flow of the Holy Spirit, the soul of that body=the Church, we all receive the grace to persevere. Would a soul in heaven seeing a loved one hurting not pray for them but only watch? RV 5:8…the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb HAVING EVERY ONE OF THEM harps and golden vials full of odours which are the PRAYERS OF SAINTS. The four beasts=angels, twenty-four elders are the 12 Patriarchs and 12 Apostles who ware crowns, only saints are given crowns in heaven. They are offering up the prayers of the saints on earth interceding, through Christ the Lamb=mediator. Harps adding to the prayers of the saints a pleasing sound unto the Lord, just as David played the harp to soothe Saul. Rv 8:3… another angel…stood at the altar with a golden censer…he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne 4…the smoke of the incense rose with the PRAYERS OF THE SAINTS from the hand of the angel before God. From the hand of the angel the prayers of the saints on earth are offered up to God (interceeding). The angel adds to the prayers of the saints (incense) to make them more pleasing to God. 1 COR 12:25 That there should be no schism in the body…the members should have the same care one for another. We are the body of Christ and Christ is the Head and we are all joined to that vine=Christ, with the sap=Holy Spirit going through all, those passed on and those on earth, otherwise how could Saul (Paul) have been persecuting Jesus in heaven, while Saul was on earth persecuting the people of God on earth, we are all one body, one unit. Rm 12:4 For as we have MANY MEMBERS IN ONE BODY, and all members have not the same office: 5 So we, being many, ARE ONE BODY IN CHRIST, and every one MEMBERS ONE OF ANOTHER.
WHY DO YOU not believe in intercessory I assume you read the Bible
Just so you will know, many people would take that statement to mean that you think Catholics are not Christian. That is both incorrect and insulting.
What would you say if I asked you to pray for me? I should hope you would say “Sure” and then do so. Now, what if I said “Pray, my friend, will you pray for me?” Did I pray to you first? Yes, I did. However, the term “pray” has many meanings, one of which has fallen into disuse in some places. That meaning is to make a request. It is the same as saying “I am asking you to pray for me.” Now, Catholics (and EO), understand that there is a difference between prayer and worship. This is a simple distinction that some non-Catholic groups, due to the nature of their worship, do not understand.
Others have answered this one quiet well.
It is not idolatry. One must intend to worship the idol first. Catholics DO NOT worship Mary. At all. Period.
We use common sense. We know Mary isn’t God and she can’t forgive sins and she doesn’t judge souls. +
The intercession of fellow Christians—which is what the saints in heaven are—also clearly does not interfere with Christ’s unique mediatorship because in the four verses immediately preceding 1 Timothy 2:5, Paul says that Christians should interceed: “First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and pleasing to God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth” (1 Tim. 2:1–4). Clearly, then, intercessory prayers offered by Christians on behalf of others is something “good and pleasing to God,” not something infringing on Christ’s role as mediator.
I think it this way god would want to respect your mother here on earth and would you ask your mother to pray for you? And god says honor your mother and father. So that is what the catholic our doing honoring Mother Mary.
Did Jesus respect his mother Mary?. So should we!
I completely understand the confusion.
we come to all of them to the angels the just men and eve onto Jesus its in the bible:
JL: Actually beleevr it is because the veil was torn from top down, that we NOW have total access to the Holy of Holies. [Hb12:22 But YE ARE COME TO mount Sion…to the CITY OF THE LIVING GOD the heavenly Jerusalem…TO an innumerable COMPANY OF ANGELS 23 TO the general assembly and church of THE FIRSTBORN…TO GOD the Judge of all…TO THE SPIRITS OF JUST MEN MADE PERFECT 24…TO JESUS THE MEDIATOR of the new covenant.] We come to all these including the Father. As a Catholic I sometimes go directly to the Father, sometimes to the Son or the Holy Spirit. Sometimes I ask a specific saint to pry for me or others, sometimes I ask all the saints and angels to pray for me or others. I now have access to all, as in a household one has access to their father, mother or siblings or all. Whom one goes to depends on the situation or preference. [Rv 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, **in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb AS IT HAD BEEN SLAIN, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.] Our slain sacrificed Passover Lamb the Bread of Life with his atoning blood ever living and present in the true Holy of Holies in the midst of the throne before God the Father MEDIATING for us ever showing forth and making present his once for all sacrifice. [All prayers go thru Christ, the Lamb of God, our MEDIATOR]This has always been a subject, which stirs up a lot of debate, and discussion! I personally pray to God the Father, through my intercessor, Jesus Christ; and don’t care one way or the other if catholics pray to Mary or the saints! This is their prerogative, as it is ours to bypass her and enter the throneroom of grace! It is one of the privileges we gained, when the veil was torn from the top down! Praise God for freedom and mercy!
This question reflects a false dichotomy. We do not ask one another to pray for us or with us because we are not praying “directly to God”. God has ordained that we be able to share in His ministry of intercession and reconciliation of Himself to the world.
Use the example of Peter’s shadow. Open to the book of Acts, and read the section where they came out in droves so that Peter’s shadow might fall upon them, so they might be healed. Why didn’t the people just stay home, and pray “directly to God” for healing? Because they understood that God’s healing power was flowing, and they wanted to get near the one through whom it was flowing. God has always used people this way. It does not take anything away from Him. It allows us to participate in His blessing.
Another false dichotomy. Jesus manifests Himself to us in the person of the priest. He did this because He knows how important it is to hear “your sins are forgiven” in our ears.
They don’t believe in the communion of saints, by and large, and they underestimate the value the Aposltes placed upon the Body of Christ, and how God has designed it so that we need one another.
Have you never ask a friend to pray for you so why not ask a person who is in heaven to pray for you its called intercessory prayerWith all due respect to all who pray in whatever fashion, and to whatever deity they believe and have faith in, I offer my two cents(as opposed to two mites,Luke 21:2); which I do not ask others to believe as I do. Anyway, all the verses pertaining to the Ark of the Covenant, were from the Old Testament, and were part of the Old Covenant! When Christ died on the Cross, and was subsequently resurected, believers were able to do what, in the OT, was only available to priests; enter the Holy of Holies:thumbsup:. It’s not so much that we non-catholics disrespect or dismiss Mary’s role in God’s great plan of salvation, we just don’t, at least me personally, do not feel the NEED to pray through Mary, or any other saint. In John 16:23-26, Jesus tells us that because of Him, we are able to approach the Father, and that if we ask for whatever it may be, in Jesus’s Name, we will receive. So, as a content, confident, and blessed believer(denomination not relevant), I know that when I pray, I am talking directly to my Heavenly Father, through Jesus!:thumbsup:So,please do not take it as a personal affront to your religion, if we don’t pray through Mary; we stilllove and respect our God, and believe that Mary is important