Why do Catholics pray to Saints........

[RebeccaJ]

I do not have a Catholic Bible (not sure of the difference) but I use the King James. I have copies of the Bible in the following versions: NKJ, NIV, and a cross refenced Greek/Hebrew.

The KJV has had books removed from it. The language is Early Modern English, and so not readily understood in full by modern English speakers. Other than that, it is a Bible. I don’t have any problem using it, other than the missing books, and looking up the meaning of words and phrases as used in the 17th century.

The New American Bible is a Catholic Bible.

 

[Catholic_to_LDS]

I would have to say thank you to you all.I have never had this explained to me in this way. What you all say makes a great deal of sence!!!

The last poster said that “if” my early learning in the Catholic faith is real it was deficient…yep!!! I won’t embaress the exact parishes but, I attend parishes all with in the Arlington- Washington, DC Dioces. I attended for almost 2 years (7-8 grade) and was taught by both nuns and lay-teachers. I to had a nun- Sister Jean- that everyone would run from, even the boys. Looking back, maybe I should have taught like her; she put the “fear of God” in to anyone with one look and a measuring stick!!

OK…so Catholics don’t pray to saints (yes I speaking of those canonised); they pray and ask for the saints to pray for them/with them. I understand that it’s like asking a friend to pray for me. I think I get that part.

But, why when I was going through confermation did I need to pick a “saint”?? How do you go about praying with/ asking a saint to pray for you???

Soooo many questions now…I know what all you Catholics are saying…maybe Catholic to LDS to Catholic??? hmmmmm.

 

[kalt]

I would have to say thank you to you all.I have never had this explained to me in this way. What you all say makes a great deal of sence!!!

The last poster said that “if” my early learning in the Catholic faith is real it was deficient…yep!!! I won’t embaress the exact parishes but, I attend parishes all with in the Arlington- Washington, DC Dioces. I attended for almost 2 years (7-8 grade) and was taught by both nuns and lay-teachers. I to had a nun- Sister Jean- that everyone would run from, even the boys. Looking back, maybe I should have taught like her; she put the “fear of God” in to anyone with one look and a measuring stick!!

OK…so Catholics don’t pray to saints (yes I speaking of those canonised); they pray and ask for the saints to pray for them/with them. I understand that it’s like asking a friend to pray for me. I think I get that part.

But, why when I was going through confermation did I need to pick a “saint”?? How do you go about praying with/ asking a saint to pray for you???

Soooo many questions now…I know what all you Catholics are saying…maybe Catholic to LDS to Catholic??? hmmmmm.

The “Hail Mary” is one prayer that I bet you remember. If you have a Saint that you are especially attached to, you can just say something like, “St Margaret, pray for me.” There are patron Saints for all kinds of things - illnesses, needs, professions, etc.

I’m not especially attached to any particular Saint. Maybe that’s because I don’t know much about most of them. At any rate, the only Saint I ask to pray for me is Mary.

You don’t have to ask Saints to pray for you. You can if you want to, but it’s not a requirement - unless a Hail Mary is part of your pennance, of course.

 

[aspirant]

I would like to know why Catholics pray to saints. I ahve wondered about this since childhood. No one has every answered me using the Bible as support.

Many have provided resources. I would also like to recommend this article.

I do not have a Catholic Bible (not sure of the difference) but I use the King James.

Then you will already know something that many modern English speakers have forgotten: the word “pray” is just an archaic word for “ask, request.” In the Jacobean English of your Bible translation, any request to anyone is a “prayer.” For example:

Genesis 13:8 “And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdmen and thy herdmen; for we be brethren.”

Genesis 24:2 “And Abraham said unto his eldest servant of his house, that ruled over all that he had, Put, I pray thee, thy hand under my thigh…”

Genesis 24:17 “And the servant ran to meet her, and said, Let me, I pray thee, drink a little water of thy pitcher.”

And so on.

This is the sense in which we say “prayer to the saints.” It means we’re asking them for something, namely their prayers to God for us.

Do we believe that the Saints Prayers are powerful. Sure we do. All prayers are powerful but we believe they their prayers are powerful because they have fulfilled their promises to God and are with him as we speak in heaven.

“The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.” Or in Catholic to LDS’ King James Version: “The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.”

But, why when I was going through confermation did I need to pick a “saint”?

Technically, there is no requirement to do so. But it is a pious practice to choose as a special patron a saint with whom you feel a special bond. This saint is, ideally, someone you want to emulate in becoming more godly and with whom you want to pray.

When I was confirmed, for example, I chose the name John in honor of several St. Johns I admire, including John the Baptist, John the Apostle, and John of the Cross. I try to learn from their words and lives and ask for their prayers.

How do you go about praying with/ asking a saint to pray for you?

Just ask! If you are reading the Gospel of Luke, for example, you can ask “St. Luke, I would like some help in better understanding what your gospel has to say to me. Please pray for me.” And he will, because he loves you.

 

[KingAlfred]

I would like to know why Catholics pray to saints. I ahve wondered about this since childhood. No one has every answered me using the Bible as support. Doesn’t God say that we are not to pray to any other god or thing but Him? I would like biblical refernce if possible. I do not have a Catholic Bible (not sure of the difference) but I use the King James. I have copies of the Bible in the following versions: NKJ, NIV, and a cross refenced Greek/Hebrew.

I have attended CCD, Catholic School, and I attended confermation class but was not confermed a member. As an adult, I attended 4 adult classes before leaving and joining the LDS church. THe priest could not explain to me why beyond " We are but mere mortals who cannot stand before God. We are in need of an intermediator who is worthy to stand before God and plead on our behalf." That is a direct quote. It’s from my Journal entry.

Please…I don’t want to argue…I only want to understand.

**I never pray to Saints. Never have, never will. **

 

[soren1]

I would like to know why Catholics pray to saints. I ahve wondered about this since childhood. No one has every answered me using the Bible as support. Doesn’t God say that we are not to pray to any other god or thing but Him? I would like biblical refernce if possible. I do not have a Catholic Bible (not sure of the difference) but I use the King James. I have copies of the Bible in the following versions: NKJ, NIV, and a cross refenced Greek/Hebrew.

I have attended CCD, Catholic School, and I attended confermation class but was not confermed a member. As an adult, I attended 4 adult classes before leaving and joining the LDS church. THe priest could not explain to me why beyond " We are but mere mortals who cannot stand before God. We are in need of an intermediator who is worthy to stand before God and plead on our behalf." That is a direct quote. It’s from my Journal entry.

Please…I don’t want to argue…I only want to understand.

The plainest Biblical evidence for prayer to saints is that the Church leaders (men and angels) in heaven in the book of Revelation are depicted as offering up the prayers of others to God. We see this first in Rev 5:8:

And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

And then again at Rev 8:3-4:

And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel’s hand.

What both of these verses show is that the prayers of the saints here on Earth are passed on to God in the heavenly liturgy by the hands of Church members in heaven. This means they have a mediating role specifically with regard to prayer.

To add a lttle more to some of the comments relating to the unique mediation of Jesus difficult, it is worth considering what is said in Vatican II’s Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, Lumen Gentium:
*
Just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by the ministers and by the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is really communicated in different ways to His creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source.*

In context, this passage is given in regard to Mary’s intercession, but it applies to the entire doctrine of the Communion of Saints. The ministers who bear our prayers to the altar in heaven do so only in and through Christ, who, as God and man, is the unique Mediator of all humanity to the Father. To understand this principle in its full theolgoical context, I would recommend a careful reading of the entirety of Lumen Gentium.

 

[aspirant]

I never pray to Saints. Never have, never will.

This would make praying the Confiteor terribly difficult.

 

[TheosisM]

I would have to say thank you to you all.I have never had this explained to me in this way. What you all say makes a great deal of sence!!!

The last poster said that “if” my early learning in the Catholic faith is real it was deficient…yep!!! I won’t embaress the exact parishes but, I attend parishes all with in the Arlington- Washington, DC Dioces. I attended for almost 2 years (7-8 grade) and was taught by both nuns and lay-teachers. I to had a nun- Sister Jean- that everyone would run from, even the boys. Looking back, maybe I should have taught like her; she put the “fear of God” in to anyone with one look and a measuring stick!!

OK…so Catholics don’t pray to saints (yes I speaking of those canonised); they pray and ask for the saints to pray for them/with them. I understand that it’s like asking a friend to pray for me. I think I get that part.

But, why when I was going through confermation did I need to pick a “saint”?? How do you go about praying with/ asking a saint to pray for you???

Soooo many questions now…I know what all you Catholics are saying…maybe Catholic to LDS to Catholic??? hmmmmm.

Sorry, I wasn’t referring to you about the “deficient” Catholic catechesis, though perhaps you didn’t learn enough as well. Don’t worry, this is a common issue in all religions.

Anyway: I think that some people get caught up in the whole “pray to” vs. “pray with” issue. Personally, I have no problem with people saying that they pray “to” canonized saints, if it is understood that we do not approach the saints in the same way that we approach God. “Pray” simply means (among other things) “to request”. We are requesting that the saints, whether on earth or in Heaven, pray for us for whatever need.

In Confirmation, we choose a canonized saint whose life we find inspiring, and perhaps we feel a personal connection to due to similar events in our own lives. So, if someone finds Paul as a good example, they would choose Paul as their confirmation name. Someone else might like Mary, so they choose Mary, and follow her example.

Asking a saint to pray for you is simple. The “Hail Mary” is a simple and popular example: “Hail Mary, full of grace the lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. (Luke 1:28 and Luke 1:42) Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the our of our death. Amen”. You can make up your own words, or find the prayers written by others. In church, many people may light a candle in front of an icon or statue of the saint, in remembrance of their prayer. Fire/candles/lamps are very important symbols in Catholicism, most importantly as a symbol of Jesus, the light of the world (Mt 5:14).

Feel free to ask any other questions you have.

 

[why_me]

**I never pray to Saints. Never have, never will. **

Many catholics do pray to saints asking for help and intercession. Many have prayed to saint therese for example to intercede in their behalf. And catholics become saints upon death through the working of miracles on the earth. And these miracles occur when a person prays to the perspective saint for help as just happened in Australia.

 

[why_me]

I’m not really concerned with how you see those verses. Also, if you think those verses are supposed to mention “canonized saints”, then you miss the entire point.

Odd that you never heard of something called the “communion of saints”, since that’s right in the Apostles Creed. The more I hear about your supposed “Catholic youth”, the more I realize that, if it existed, it was very deficient.

I pretty much know that you are not interested or concerned with how I see those verses. But of course, you do want people to be interested in your interpretations, right? The communion of saints is a wonderful idea but it has very little to do with the bible. But I like the idea a lot.

The catholic church has never to my knowledge claimed that we are all saints. Nor do catholics refer to themselves as saints. But catholics are advised to become like the saints. In fact, this is why the catholic church has saints in the churches. To act as a reminder of who we can become, not to mention the stain glass windows. They (the saints) become a part of us, as we worship together.

Now of course, the question: Did the beginning of your response resemble the response of a saint? I don’t think so.

 

[why_me]

Anyway: I think that some people get caught up in the whole “pray to” vs. “pray with” issue. Personally, I have no problem with people saying that they pray “to” canonized saints, if it is understood that we do not approach the saints in the same way that we approach God. “Pray” simply means (among other things) “to request”. We are requesting that the saints, whether on earth or in Heaven, pray for us for whatever need.

Better to use the word talk. Saint Therese, the little flower, often prayed (talked) to her earthly mother, father and brothers after they died. She felt that she was in communion with them and they could help her on earth.

 

[why_me]

I also went to Catholic Schools and you are right we didn’t call ourselves saints. That’s because as the early Church grew the members of the Church were called christians and the word "saint’ was reserved for those that were martyred for the faith. 29 of the first 30 Popes (Bishops of Rome) were all killed by the Romans and over time that title "saints’ was reserved for those who died for the faith.
You see this principle in scripture

This is true. If catholics are now calling themselves saints, it is a very modern contruction. But I have to say that Joseph Smith was an amazing guy if he were a fraudster. The name that he thought up of ‘his’ church: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints seems to be right on the mark since the early members were also called saints.

 

[wwolverine]

I would like to know why Catholics pray to saints. I ahve wondered about this since childhood. No one has every answered me using the Bible as support. Doesn’t God say that we are not to pray to any other god or thing but Him? I would like biblical refernce if possible. I do not have a Catholic Bible (not sure of the difference) but I use the King James. I have copies of the Bible in the following versions: NKJ, NIV, and a cross refenced Greek/Hebrew.

I have attended CCD, Catholic School, and I attended confermation class but was not confermed a member. As an adult, I attended 4 adult classes before leaving and joining the LDS church. THe priest could not explain to me why beyond " We are but mere mortals who cannot stand before God. We are in need of an intermediator who is worthy to stand before God and plead on our behalf." That is a direct quote. It’s from my Journal entry.

Please…I don’t want to argue…I only want to understand.

Epheisans 6:
18Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

Epheisans 1: 15Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints, 16Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
17That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

Philomen 1: 4I thank my God, making mention of thee always in my prayers,
5Hearing of thy love and faith, which thou hast toward the Lord Jesus, and toward all saints;
6That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus
7For we have great joy and consolation in thy love, because the bowels of the saints are refreshed by thee, brother.

Hope the above quotes will be of help?

God Bless

 

[why_me]

Epheisans 6:
18Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

Epheisans 1: 15Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints, 16Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
17That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

Philomen 1: 4I thank my God, making mention of thee always in my prayers,
5Hearing of thy love and faith, which thou hast toward the Lord Jesus, and toward all saints;
6That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus
7For we have great joy and consolation in thy love, because the bowels of the saints are refreshed by thee, brother.

Hope the above quotes will be of help?

God Bless

I think that these verses can also be interpreted as saints, members of the church of christ at that time, and not the catholic understanding of saints. Members of the church of christ should have love toward all saints as brothers and sisters in christ.

I suppose a mormon can stretch the understanding that when members of the church of christ die they still remain saints in even as being former members of the church of jesus christ. .

 

[why_me]

For a mormon understanding of the meaning of saint one can listen to the mormon tabernacle choir sing Come, Come, Ye Saints complete with music video:

youtube.com/watch?v=2d5ymkcxWEU

 

[zerinus]

To put it simply: we believe that it is possible to ask saints on earth to pray for us, and the saints in Heaven.

Is there a scriptural basis for this? Asking a dead person to pray for you is a different thing from asking a living person to pray for you. There are scriptural examples of asking a living person to pray for you; but none that I know of for asking a dead person to pray for you. Also, when Catholics pray to saints, they don’t just ask them to “pray” for them; they appeal directly for their intercession; as shown in this quote form the opening message to the Catechism:

At the conclusion of this document presenting the Catechism of the Catholic Church, I beseech the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of the Incarnate Word and Mother of the Church, to support with her powerful intercession the catechetical work of the entire Church on every level, at this time when she is called to a new effort of evangelization. …

Given 11 October 1992, the thirtieth anniversary of the opening of the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council, in the fourteenth year of my Pontificate.

Pope John Paul II

whereas the Bible says that there is only one intercessor between God and man, and that is Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2:5).

 

[wmscott]

Is there a scriptural basis for this? Asking a dead person to pray for you is a different thing from asking a living person to pray for you. There are scriptural examples of asking a living person to pray for you; but none that I know of for asking a dead person to pray for you. Also, when Catholics pray to saints, they don’t just ask them to “pray” for them; they appeal directly for their intercession; as shown in this quote form the opening message to the Catechism:

At the conclusion of this document presenting the Catechism of the Catholic Church, I beseech the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of the Incarnate Word and Mother of the Church, to support with her powerful intercession the catechetical work of the entire Church on every level, at this time when she is called to a new effort of evangelization. …

Given 11 October 1992, the thirtieth anniversary of the opening of the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council, in the fourteenth year of my Pontificate.

Pope John Paul II

whereas the Bible says that there is only one intercessor between God and man, and that is Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2:5).

Hi zerinus, you state “whereas the Bible says that there is only one intercessor between God and man, and that is Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2:5).” The following references are taken from two Catholic sources and two Protestant sources on 1 Tim 2:5

1 Tim 2:5

5 For there is one God. There is also one mediator between God and the human race, Christ Jesus, himself human,
NAB

1 Tim 2:5-6

5 For there is one God, and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus:
Douay Rheims

1 Tim 2:5-6
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
KJV

1 Tim 2:5-6
5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
NASB

Also some more context on 1 Tim 2:5-6 an excerpt from the Haydocks Catholic Bible Commentary.

Ver. 5-6. One mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus: who gave himself a redemption for all. Take all these words together, and we may easily understand in what sense the apostle calls our Saviour Christ, the one or only mediator; that is, he is the only mediator, who at the same time is our Redeemer; the only mediator who could mediate betwixt God, the person offended by sin, and men the offenders; the only mediator who reconciled God to mankind by his incarnation and death, by the infinite price of his blood, by his own merits, independently of the merits of any other. All Catholics allow that the dignity and office of mediator in this sense belongs only to our Redeemer, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, made man to save us. The sense then of this place is, that as there is but one God, who created all, so there is but one mediator, who redeemed all. But yet the name of mediator is not so appropriated to Christ, but that in an inferior and different sense the Angels and saints in heaven, and even men on earth, who pray to God for the salvation of others, may be called mediators, intercessors, or advocates; and we may apply ourselves to them to pray, intercede, and mediate for us, without any injury to Christ, since we acknowledge that all their intercession and mediation is always grounded on the merits of Christ, our Redeemer.

I think this may answer the question a little more clearly. Peace

 

[TheosisM]

I pretty much know that you are not interested or concerned with how I see those verses. But of course, you do want people to be interested in your interpretations, right? The communion of saints is a wonderful idea but it has very little to do with the bible. But I like the idea a lot.

So the belief that the Church is the Body of Christ and includes people on earth and in Heaven has little to do with the Bible? So you believe that people stop being members of the Church when they die? If you believe that that is unbiblical, then you have not read the Bible.

And I was not interested in how you see it because the OP asked for the view of why Catholics pray to saints. I gave her that view, you did not.

 

[TheosisM]

This is true. If catholics are now calling themselves saints, it is a very modern contruction. But I have to say that Joseph Smith was an amazing guy if he were a fraudster. The name that he thought up of ‘his’ church: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints seems to be right on the mark since the early members were also called saints.

Oh LOL, this thread has nothing to do with Mormonism, stop derailing.

The Catholic Church has always called members of the Church “saints”, evidenced by its use of the Apostles Creed and belief in the “communion of the saints”. The same goes for the Orthodox Church. We don’t need to put “saints” in our church name, or explicitly refer to each other as saints for it to be true. The fact is that our belief in intercession, whether on earth or in Heaven, is based on our belief that members of the Church are saints, and one does not cease being a saint or being a member of the Church when they die.

 

[TheosisM]

Is there a scriptural basis for this? Asking a dead person to pray for you is a different thing from asking a living person to pray for you. There are scriptural examples of asking a living person to pray for you; but none that I know of for asking a dead person to pray for you. Also, when Catholics pray to saints, they don’t just ask them to “pray” for them; they appeal directly for their intercession; as shown in this quote form the opening message to the Catechism:

At the conclusion of this document presenting the Catechism of the Catholic Church, I beseech the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of the Incarnate Word and Mother of the Church, to support with her powerful intercession the catechetical work of the entire Church on every level, at this time when she is called to a new effort of evangelization. …

Given 11 October 1992, the thirtieth anniversary of the opening of the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council, in the fourteenth year of my Pontificate.

Pope John Paul II

whereas the Bible says that there is only one intercessor between God and man, and that is Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2:5).

I’ve already addressed all of this above, please see the link as well.

The Bible states that there is only one mediator between God and man, who is Jesus Christ. And yet when one is asked to pray for someone else, they are acting as an intercessor/mediator. The very act of praying for someone else is intercession, so you are creating an artificial division here.