Why do Catholics pray to Saints........

[pete_29]

Because I need prayers from anyone who is willing to pray for me. Saint or sinner.

 

[why_me]

One - it has dispelled anti-Catholic falsehoods, for those who are intellectually honest enough to accept the truth. Those who are not, but are inflammatory and attack on every issue regardless of the truth, are actually an example to those who are on the sidelines observing and see the bigotry towards another Christian faith. I am not saying that those who are intellectually honest agree with the Catholic position, but they do respect the fact that it is the Catholics faith and right to believe and worship that way. There are no judgments or denigration perpetuated. However, there are “SOME”, who continue to attack, challenge, and bash, after the Catholic position is stated. They are not here for any honest discussion. They are here to tell us Catholics just how wrong Catholicism is according to the authority of (fill in the name) and their Bible. They do not want to know nor do the care to know what the truths are about Catholicism, it is attack, challenge, and bash.

Peace.

Well said. But can you also feel for the poor mormons on this forum who often read attacks and inflammatory words about their faith on this forum. That they too may feel judged and denigrated against. I have read attacks, challenges and bashing against the mormon faith on this forum after the mormons state their position. And can we claim that the catholics who do this are here for honest discussion? And can we also claim that the catholics who do this are telling mormons just how wrong mormonism is?

What I am trying to say is: catholics should also be held to your standard.

 

[zerinus]

I’ve already addressed all of this above, please see the link as well.

The Bible states that there is only one mediator between God and man, who is Jesus Christ. And yet when one is asked to pray for someone else, they are acting as an intercessor/mediator. The very act of praying for someone else is intercession, so you are creating an artificial division here.

Let us assume that all your reasoning is valid. Can you point to a scripture that suggests or sanctions praying to or asking a petition from the dead?

 

[why_me]

No, she views it the same way I do. Please read my first post in this thread, where I state ““Canonized saints” (who are those that are typically referred to as “saints”) are those that the Church believes should be known by everyone, for various reasons.”

As others have already stated in this thread, the Catholic belief is that the earthly members of the Church and the Heavenly members are all saints, hence the “communion of saints”. I mean, hello, it’s right in the Catechism, and is a concept that goes all the way back to the beginning of the Church. Please stop trying to be divisive.

This is not the way I read Saint Therese’s words. She states that she wants to become a saint implying a saint as designated by the catholic church–canonized. But this is what I will do. I will ask my nun friends if I am a saint according to the catholic church and I will see what they say.

Strange how when I disagree with you you call me divisive. Your passive aggressive nature is noted. :bowdown2:

 

[zerinus]

thats the thing, people in heaven aren’t dead. they are alive

so we’re not asking prayers from the dead. in fact, Catholics are not allowed to ask dead relatives to pray for them, because we don’t know if they are in heaven or not. but those revealed by God to be in heaven, those canonized to be saints, we know they are in heaven so we know they live forever in heaven, therefore we can ask from them their prayers for us on earth

By the dead I meant people who have passed on to the next life, with whom we cannot have direct communication, as we can do with the living.

 

[why_me]

Let us assume that all your reasoning is valid. Can you point to a scripture that suggests or sanctions praying to or asking a petition from the dead?

I don’t think that he can. But the notion is great. It brings a lot of comfort to many catholics who have asked the saints for intercessions and who believe that that have received help and answers.

 

[TheosisM]

This is not the way I read Saint Therese’s words. She states that she wants to become a saint implying a saint as designated by the catholic church–canonized. But this is what I will do. I will ask my nun friends if I am a saint according to the catholic church and I will see what they say.

Strange how when I disagree with you you call me divisive. Your passive agressive nature is noted. :bowdown2:

Exactly, she is talking about a “canonized saint”, hence why I stated in my first post in this thread that “canonized saints” are those that are typically referred to as simply “saints”. Not sure why you are ignoring this.

I personally don’t care if you disagree with me, there is nothing wrong with that. What is wrong is when someone is misrepresenting Catholic teaching, and bringing up irrelevant matters to the discussion (such as Mormonism).

 

[TheosisM]

Let us assume that all your reasoning is valid. Can you point to a scripture that suggests or sanctions praying to or asking a petition from the dead?

Catholics and Orthodox do not expect nor believe that there is a verse that says “thou shalt ask the Heavenly saints for intercession” (nor is that a problem for us since we do not subscribe to the false (and unbiblical itself) doctrine of sola scriptura). Instead, we believe that the Bible supports the belief that 1)the Church is the Body of Christ and includes those on earth and in Heaven; 2) people do not cease being members of the Body of Christ when they die; 3) Heavenly entities besides God are aware of the prayers of those on earth; 4) we should ask for the intercession of others. With all of this, Catholics and Orthodox see the intercession of [Heavenly] saints as not contradicting any biblical principles, and finds its basis in our views on the above scriptural matters. There have been a few links and articles given in this thread that you should read that cover our interpretation of relevant scriptural passages.

 

[why_me]

Exactly, she is talking about a “canonized saint”, hence why I stated in my first post in this thread that “canonized saints” are those that are typically referred to as simply “saints”. Not sure why you are ignoring this.

I personally don’t care if you disagree with me, there is nothing wrong with that. What is wrong is when someone is misrepresenting Catholic teaching, and bringing up irrelevant matters to the discussion (such as Mormonism).

I have not misrepresented catholic teaching at all. I have stated that I have never been called a saint in the catholic faith. It was always brought to my attention that saints were exceptional people on earth who became saints after a process. If I would have asked saint therese if she were a saint, she would have said no. But that she wanted to become s saint in heaven.

I brought up the mormons as a example of a people who not only call themselves saints but who also believe that they are latter day saints being members of christ church. I have never heard of a protestant church nor the catholic church having the same definition. However, I have heard recently some Teleevangelists refer to their members as saints.

 

[wmscott]

Well said. But can you also feel for the poor mormons on this forum who often read attacks and inflammatory words about their faith on this forum. That they too may feel judged and denigrated against. I have read attacks, challenges and bashing against the mormon faith on this forum after the mormons state their position. And can we claim that the catholics who do this are here for honest discussion? And can we also claim that the catholics who do this are telling mormons just how wrong mormonism is?

What I am trying to say is: catholics should also be held to your standard.

Poor Mormons, right, you guys do a pretty good job of defending yourself on the LDS perspective. I can only control what I do and say, I personally do not think it is appropriate to attack or bash another’s faith. All deserve the respect each one of us wants in return. I am to the point now that I do not get involved in these types of discussions.

I know that you and other LDS have taken the time to answer my questions here regarding your faith. I have asked for my own edification, and I feel I have been respectful and did not bash or attack if I did not agree or like the answer I got. I do not agree with your theology nor ever will. However, LDS have very different beliefs from Catholics and at times I would want to know why you believe the way you do so that I know the truth of what you believe not what others think a LDS believes. If there are some things regarding the LDS beliefs I find that I want to know, I will ask respectfully and not attack or bash. Never the less, it is your right to worship the way you choose. Peace.

 

[TheosisM]

I have not misrepresented catholic teaching at all. I have stated that I have never been called a saint in the catholic faith. It was always brought to my attention that saints were exceptional people on earth who became saints after a process. If I would have asked saint therese if she were a saint, she would have said no. But that she wanted to become s saint in heaven.

That’s an assumption. What is clear is that the Catholic Church regards both earthly members and Heavenly members as saints. The Church is the “communion of saints”. Catholics typically are referring to canonized saints when we say “saints”. The concept of the “communion of saints” is not some recent innovation in the Church, and you don’t need to be “called a saint” for it to be true. Canonized saints are exemplary examples for the rest of the saints, hence why they are canonized. The canonization process does not “make” one a saint. What it does is recognize something that has already happened, and proclaim that the person in question should be known throughout the Church.

Multiple people have already stated what I have said, and it is right in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

 

[TheosisM]

The funny thing is I doubt why me and zerinus would be in this thread if it wasn’t started by “Catholic to LDS”.

 

[why_me]

The funny thing is I doubt why me and zerinus would be in this thread if it wasn’t started by “Catholic to LDS”.

That may be true. I am usually on mormon related threads keeping the extreme catholic posters honest.

 

[Bob4BVM]

**I never pray to Saints. Never have, never will. **

Yeah, I could say that once too.

Then this Lady comes along showing up smack in the middle of my life-long, and ‘painfully slow & twisting’, path to her Son. Thanks to her, everything’s different now.
Was definitely not looking for her, or expecting her, or the effect on my life.
But I wouldn’t go back for anything. Not to say I was wrong about everything ‘before’, I just had NO IDEA what was possible for her, thru God’s grace.
I expect the other saints can intercede for us as well, but she has my heart now.
You might try ‘just asking’, in earnest, and see what happens…

All the best to you.

 

[Bob4BVM]

Zerinus. What you do not understand we as RC do not believe in death. We believe in eternal life. We believe that Jesus Christ took away death. So until you understand the meaning of the resurrection of CHrist and what it means, you will never understand eternal life.

There you have it !
Thx rinnie…

Those is Heaven are every BIT as alive as we are, maybe even more so !
We are united with them in the great Body of Christ, His Church, which includes ALL His followers wherever thay happen to be–on earth, in heaven, or in purgatory(on their way to Heaven).
If that sounds like too much to believe, this one will be a real toughie for you Zerinus:
They are ALL present with Him at every Holy Mass.

 

[aspirant]

ok…so how does the rosary fit in to all this or is it something completly different?

The vocal prayers of the rosary include requests for Mary’s prayer. But the rosary goes much deeper than vocal prayer. The core prayer is meditation on the Gospel, especially in particular events in the lives of Jesus and Mary (e.g. Jesus’ birth, the first Eucharist, Jesus crucified, Jesus rising from the dead).

My mom said that when she would light a candle at the church, she had to pay money to do so…why?

It’s a contribution to help pay for the votive candles.

And what about those candles I see in Wal-Mart with saints on them?

They’re candles with saints on them.

Many people, when they use them, ask the saint to pray, and the candle’s burning represents the continuation of the matter in your hearts. But the significance of candles among Catholics goes deeper than that. The fire represents the light of Christ, for example.

 

[zerinus]

Catholics and Orthodox do not expect nor believe that there is a verse that says “thou shalt ask the Heavenly saints for intercession” (nor is that a problem for us since we do not subscribe to the false (and unbiblical itself) doctrine of sola scriptura). Instead, we believe that the Bible supports the belief that 1)the Church is the Body of Christ and includes those on earth and in Heaven; 2) people do not cease being members of the Body of Christ when they die; 3) Heavenly entities besides God are aware of the prayers of those on earth; 4) we should ask for the intercession of others. With all of this, Catholics and Orthodox see the intercession of [Heavenly] saints as not contradicting any biblical principles, and finds its basis in our views on the above scriptural matters. There have been a few links and articles given in this thread that you should read that cover our interpretation of relevant scriptural passages.

Thanks for your explanation; but from my point of view, the fact that there is no biblical precedent for it makes it a very questionable act. The Bible records the words and actions of thousands of ancient prophets, patriarchs, Apostles, disciples, and saints of God throughout the history of creation, from Adam until Christ; yet there is not a single recorded instance of even one of them petitioning another supernatural being other than God for their support. There are many examples of them praying directly to God for what they have needed; but not a single instance of them praying to a dead saint. That to me makes it a highly questionable practice, to say the least.

 

[aspirant]

Can you point to a scripture that suggests or sanctions praying to or asking a petition from the dead?

Catholic, Orthodox, and even most Protestant Christians do not believe that a thing must be explicitly mentioned in scripture in order to be permissible (or, for that matter, forbidden). Most of us, for example, are willing to drive or at least ride in motor vehicles. When considering the question whether or how to do a thing, we apply biblical principles and (at least in the case of Catholics & Orthodox, and even a few Protestants) the principles of traditional Church teaching.

By the dead I meant people who have passed on to the next life, with whom we cannot have direct communication, as we can do with the living.

I do not believe this definition applies to the saints in heaven.

 

[aspirant]

from my point of view, the fact that there is no biblical precedent for it makes it a very questionable act.

There are many things in our lives for which there is “no [explicit] biblical precedent.”

 

[zerinus]

Thanks for your explanation; but from my point of view, the fact that there is no biblical precedent for it makes it a very questionable act. The Bible records the words and actions of thousands of ancient prophets, patriarchs, Apostles, disciples, and saints of God throughout the history of creation, from Adam until Christ; yet there is not a single recorded instance of even one of them petitioning another supernatural being other than God for their support. There are many examples of them praying directly to God for what they have needed; but not a single instance of them praying to a dead saint. That to me makes it a highly questionable practice, to say the least.

And just to add some scriptures:

Psalms 50:

15 And call upon me in the day of trouble: I will deliver thee, and thou shalt glorify me.

Joel 2:

32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: …

Acts 2:

21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 10:

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

It doesn’t say, “Whosoever shall call upon the name of the saints shall be saved”.