Why do Catholics Worship Saints?

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justasking4 said:
So you are saying that catholic do worship Mary and the saints even though it is not the same level as to God?
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Only if you use the catholic definition of same.
If this is the case, then how does the average catholic know the difference between proper worship to God alone and that to Mary and the saints?
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Because they are taught the difference. And we usually use different words - Worship for God, others for the saints.
 
dmelosi said:
Without trying to sound unkind, you contradict yourself here.

You quote from the Catechism “This very special devotion . . . differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit”

And then you turn that into worship.

Can you not see how you are trying to twist things? Why?
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Not so. Look at this sentence from 971…This very special devotion . . . differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration."
This is speaking of a adoration even though different to the one given to God. There are a couple of terms that catholics use to show the differences. I think the terms are dulia and hyper duilia. Both these terms have something to do with worship.
It is not me that is doing the twisting but it is your church that misleads its people by teaching them things the scriptures do not.
 
justasking4 said:
Not so. Look at this sentence from 971…This very special devotion . . . differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration."
This is speaking of a adoration even though different to the one given to God. There are a couple of terms that catholics use to show the differences. I think the terms are dulia and hyper duilia. Both these terms have something to do with worship.
It is not me that is doing the twisting but it is your church that misleads its people by teaching them things the scriptures do not.
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How does “differs essentially” make veneration of saints the same as worshiping God?
 
In the archaic and theological definition of worship, yes. In common language, worship usually means latria, but that is the Protestant definition which American Catholics have adopted. Our worship of dulia that we give to the saints, either absolute or as a result of relative worship, is INFINITELY LESS than the worship of latria which is given to God alone. If someone gives the worship of Latria to someone other than the Lord, they are committing a Mortal Sin — IDOLATRY. If we worship images because of the image, not because we want to worship the prototype (the person depicted), that is a grave sin and is IDOLATRY. Any relative worship we give to an image is directed to the prototype (the person depicted) by our intention. The relative worship we give to an image is passed on to the prototype.
It is this relative worship that is to be paid to the cross, images of Christ and the saints, while the intention directs it all really to the persons these things represent.
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davidv said:
How does “differs essentially” make veneration of saints the same as worshiping God?
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It doesn’t. Rather it implies that some kind of worship is being done in regards to mary and the saints. It may be a “lesser type” of worship but it is worship nonetheless.
 
justasking4 said:
It doesn’t. Rather it implies that some kind of worship is being done in regards to mary and the saints. It may be a “lesser type” of worship but it is worship nonetheless.
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This is nonsense. You say worship=worship. The statement quoted says they are essential different. These are mutually exclusive statements. They both cannot be true. This it the “twisting” refered to by another poster.
 
davidv said:
Please read this:
newadvent.org/cathen/01151a.htm
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I did and it confims what many catholics seem to be denying and that is they do worship Mary and the saints even if it is of “secondary” kind. Here is a telling couple of sentences from the article:
"He is the ultimate end of our worship in such cases as He is the source of the derived perfection which called it forth. But, as was intimated above, whenever the immediate object of our veneration is a creature of this sort, the mode of worship which we exhibit towards it is fundamentally different from the worship which belongs to God alone. Latria, as we have already said, is the name of this latter worship; and for the secondary kind, evoked by saints or angels, we use the term dulia.
From this we can see that catholics do worship Mary and the saints even if it is of a secondary kind. It is still worship.
 
davidv said:
This is nonsense. You say worship=worship. The statement quoted says they are essential different. These are mutually exclusive statements. They both cannot be true. This it the “twisting” refered to by another poster.
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Huh??? Here is what these terms defined by the catholic church mean in the article on adoration on the Advent site. Here are a couple of sentences from that article:
Latria, as we have already said, is the name of this latter worship; and for the secondary kind, evoked by saints or angels, we use the term dulia.

I don’t know how much clearer it can get than this…
 
justasking4 said:
How?
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The bottom line.

Catholics worship God.
Catholics venerate and honor Mary. Why? The angel calls her “full of grace” and one who has “found favor with God” (Lk 1:28, 30 RSVCE); Elizabeth, filled with the Holy Spirit calls her “blessed among women” (v. 42); and Mary herself declares that “all generations shall call me blessed” (v. 48). Catholics, following Scripture, always call her blessed. Do you?

Please don’t say that we worship a false God…
 
justasking4 said:
I did and it confims what many catholics seem to be denying and that is they do worship Mary and the saints even if it is of “secondary” kind. Here is a telling couple of sentences from the article:
"He is the ultimate end of our worship in such cases as He is the source of the derived perfection which called it forth. But, as was intimated above, whenever the immediate object of our veneration is a creature of this sort, the mode of worship which we exhibit towards it is fundamentally different from the worship which belongs to God alone. Latria, as we have already said, is the name of this latter worship; and for the secondary kind, evoked by saints or angels, we use the term dulia.
From this we can see that catholics do worship Mary and the saints even if it is of a secondary kind. It is still worship.
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Are you really not comprehending the difference still? If “worship” is taken in the older, broader sense, then yes, dulia can be considered as a “secondary kind” of worship. But since you insist that worship must be for God alone, you are insisting that worship only be used to describe Latria. Fine, have your definition. But don’t then try to make it sound as though we consider dulia to be a “secondary kind” of Latria. Pick one definition of “worship” and stick to it. Don’t switch back and forth, adopting whichever definition helps you to do the most damage to Catholic teaching in any given post. That is simply intellectually dishonest.
 
The worship (dulia and hyperdulia) we give to the saints is infinitely less than the worship (latria) we give to God. Dulia, Hyperdulia, and Latria are entirely different forms of worship.
 
VociMike said:
Are you really not comprehending the difference still? If “worship” is taken in the older, broader sense, then yes, dulia can be considered as a “secondary kind” of worship. But since you insist that worship must be for God alone, you are insisting that worship only be used to describe Latria. Fine, have your definition. But don’t then try to make it sound as though we consider dulia to be a “secondary kind” of Latria. Pick one definition of “worship” and stick to it. Don’t switch back and forth, adopting whichever definition helps you to do the most damage to Catholic teaching in any given post. That is simply intellectually dishonest.
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I’m going by what this catholic source says–Latria, as we have already said, is the name of this latter worship; and for the secondary kind, evoked by saints or angels, we use the term dulia. Thats what the article says. I ask you to stick to catholic definitions also or definitions from legit sources .
 
justasking4 said:
It doesn’t. Rather it implies that some kind of worship is being done in regards to mary and the saints. It may be a “lesser type” of worship but it is worship nonetheless.
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The implication is yours, sir. You keep repeating the same thing over and over. Why not try a new tactic. It is really difficult to be civil to one who keeps telling Catholics what we believe, and when told, continues to repeat the same misinformation over and over. There must be a purpose in this, but I fail to see it.

Most of us on this forum would be happy to converse with you on what we believe and what the Catholic Church teaches. We are not pleased to have YOU tell us what we believe.
 
dmelosi said:
The bottom line.

Catholics worship God.
Catholics venerate and honor Mary. Why? The angel calls her “full of grace” and one who has “found favor with God” (Lk 1:28, 30 RSVCE); Elizabeth, filled with the Holy Spirit calls her “blessed among women” (v. 42); and Mary herself declares that “all generations shall call me blessed” (v. 48). Catholics, following Scripture, always call her blessed. Do you?

Please don’t say that we worship a false God…
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Are you familar with the terms your church uses for the different kinds of worship?
 
mary_bobo said:
The implication is yours, sir. You keep repeating the same thing over and over. Why not try a new tactic. It is really difficult to be civil to one who keeps telling Catholics what we believe, and when told, continues to repeat the same misinformation over and over. There must be a purpose in this, but I fail to see it.

Most of us on this forum would be happy to converse with you on what we believe and what the Catholic Church teaches. We are not pleased to have YOU tell us what we believe.
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When i read catholic sources and see what many catholics are saying here there is a disconnect. For example many catholics claim not to worship Mary and yet there are a couple of words used that shows that they do. From a previous post these words were defined in terms of worship–The worship (dulia and hyperdulia) we give to the saints is **infinitely less than the worship **(latria) we give to God. Dulia, Hyperdulia, and Latria are entirely different forms of worship.
Even though dulia and hyerdulia are less than worship given to God it is still a form of worship.
 
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