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FAB
Guest
You question has been answered multiple times. It’s time to move on.
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ElToro
Guest
Actually it has not. It’s sad that even discussing matters like this make some uncomfortable and in some cases uncharitable. I think there is a value to discussing them though. While I agree that the Church limits the reading of the Gospel to the ordained and the purification of the vessels to ordained/instituted men (and that’s certainly enough for me), it would be nice to know “why.”You question has been answered multiple times. It’s time to move on.
For a great many, “because the Church says so” just doesn’t feed the bulldog and it leads to a loss of respect and ultimately dissent in some cases. When I hear the deacon at my parish STRUGGLE through the Gospel and horrifically mangle it in the process (with no hint of humility) while my well-spoken pastor stands two feet away I really struggle with this.
T
TheMc
Guest
You seem to really struggle with the fact that people might not be able to understand the gospel reading. That is not the primary reason the readings are proclaimed. Look at an EF Mass, a daily low Mass, for example. Most can not understand the readings.
The proclamation of the readings by the priest, deacon, subdeacon or lector are not simply for the people to hear. First and foremost, they fill a liturgical function. Perhaps this change in attitude would help you in understanding this.
While there probably is a good explanation, also keep in mind the liturgy is not here to be practical. It is meant to be the worship of God, in the way he wishes.
For anyone who plays it fast and loose with the rubrics, I would recommend a good reading of Leviticus 10:1-2:
[BIBLEDRB]Leviticus 10:1-2[/BIBLEDRB]
We need this holy fear of worship back.
The proclamation of the readings by the priest, deacon, subdeacon or lector are not simply for the people to hear. First and foremost, they fill a liturgical function. Perhaps this change in attitude would help you in understanding this.
While there probably is a good explanation, also keep in mind the liturgy is not here to be practical. It is meant to be the worship of God, in the way he wishes.
For anyone who plays it fast and loose with the rubrics, I would recommend a good reading of Leviticus 10:1-2:
[BIBLEDRB]Leviticus 10:1-2[/BIBLEDRB]
We need this holy fear of worship back.
T
Tantum_ergo
Guest
You really have been told ‘why’ but it seems to me that you don’t want to accept the answer. Why is it so hard to accept that the Church thinks that it’s more important to have an ordained person (priest or deacon) speak the good news (gospel) than to have a lay person speak? Why is a ‘good voice’ more important than a sacrament (holy orders or the diaconate)?
You have a Bible, I presume. Most churches list the Sunday readings in advance. What prevents you from reading the Sunday reading before Mass and meditating on it, so that you will have some ‘idea’ and be better able to follow even an ‘imperfect’ reader?
If a priest or deacon is not a native English speaker, what prevents you from offering to help him practice his English speaking skills with you?
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TheMc
Guest
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John_Lilburne
Guest
Why have an instituted acolyte, if there is nothing in the liturgy that an instituted acolyte does, that an altar server (or any lay person) can do? Does the ceremony of institution mean anything? Does it make any difference in the person’s role and responsibilities?
By saying “an instituted acolyte is the only lay person who can do the purifications” the Church is providing an answer to this sort of question. Yes, the ceremony of institution makes a difference and does matter.
Another approach might by to select the person who is best at cleaning the sacred vessels. Everyone in the parish is required to perform in the test. A panel is selected to evaluate their results. Each week, before Mass, there is a competition to decide who will clean the sacred vessels.
But this is not the approach taken. It would not be a good use of resources. Instead someone assessed as reasonably competent is selected. By being the person who does the job regularly they will become better at it. There will be an avoidance of on-going arguments and competitions about who is better at the task.
Unfortunately many in the church seem to have decided that while the deacon should read the Gospel, the instituted lector need not read the First Reading. That it is better to ignore “101. In the absence of an instituted lector, other laypersons may be commissioned to proclaim the readings from Sacred Scripture.” (From the 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) approved for the USA, which can be accessed from romanrite.com/girm.html ).
This gives the unfortunate impression that the ceremonies of institution of lectors and the instructions in the liturgical books do not matter.
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ProVobis
Guest
The gospel was read addressing the barbarians to the north (ad septentrionem), presuming the rest of the Mass was said facing the east (ad orientem)…
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TheMc
Guest
I’ve always found this fascinating.
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ProVobis
Guest
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ElToro
Guest
You’re darned right I am concerned that people’s absorption of the Gospel reading is impacted when it is proclaimed poorly!
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ElToro
Guest
No. I accept that the Church gives these instructions. I would certainly hope She feels it’s important. My question is WHY She feels only the ordained may proclaim the Gospel and WHY only the ordained and instituted may purify vessels.
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ElToro
Guest
Let me get this straight. You are inferring that the Church should institute males to the office of acolyte only because they may purify sacred vessels? Honestly?
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patrick457
Guest
That’s what I addressed in the post before that. To put it in shorter words: in the earlier centuries, it was the lector’s (itself a lower rank of the clergy) job to read all the readings, but a tendency to assign these tasks to higher clergy changed things: since the late 4th century, the Gospel has begun to be read by the deacon. In my personal opinion, the reason why the deacon (and later, the priest) still reads the Gospel both in the East and the West it is partly due to feelings of conservatism and a reluctance to radically change things as they were. After all, if it ain’t broke, why fix it?
M
Melchior_1
Guest
Dawg, we’re Catholics. There’s no room for the “Bible” around here!
/sarcasm.
Seriously though, there’s two sides to this discussion. On one hand, people are discounting Toro’s point that there’s some people who you simply can’t understand when they’re reading the Gospel. Some of the answers thus far include:
- “Suck it up princess”.
- “At the EF…”
- “COPY/PASTE”.
*Pun intended!
J
John_Lilburne
Guest
I am saying there is value in appointing someone to a particular position, even if they are not the most skilled person for the position. Having a role only they do is valuable. People can see how they are different to an altar server and Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion.
What is your position? There is no value in instituted acolytes? Instead of having a deacon appointed who reads the Gospel there should be an ongoing evaluation process, to select the best person?
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ProVobis
Guest
Even the best proclamation has limitations. How many remember what the Gospel was about after the Mass is over? I’ll bet many more remember the sermon though. Therefore one should conclude that the Gospel (and perhaps the other readings as well) should be explained at the sermon, whether the Mass readings were said in the vernacular or Latin. There’s a reason why the sermon is given when it is.
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TheMc
Guest
Well… That is one of the primary duties of acolytes. Can you think of other better, more practical reasons?
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Jean_Anthony
Guest
Please, people, let’s try to be helpful to ElToro. As Melchior pointed out, the question is “why does the Church have instituted persons to do certain functions”. Please be patient and charitable in your responses. Thank you, all.
T
Tantum_ergo
Guest
Well, we know that lay people may read the epistles (first and second readings). So there must be something special about the gospel. I think that other people have provided plenty of documentation, including from the Catechism, to explain that the gospel (and the homily, as that ALSO is reserved to one ordained and NOT to a lay person) are the ‘summit’ of that part of the Mass known as the Liturgy of the Word.
So. . .just as only the priest may offer the bread and wine and say the words of consecration, and only the priest may say the doxology of “through him, with him, in him” because this is the ‘summit’ of the liturgy of the Eucharist. . .there is a time and a place in the liturgy of the Word where ONLY the priest or an ordained person can perform that particular ‘step’ in the Rite of the Mass.
We know that the priest is necessary to consecrate the Eucharist, but it appears that he is necessary to ‘proclaim’ that ‘written Word’ as well.
It makes sense to me. Why would the Holy Spirit NOT emphasize the necessity of the priest not just in ‘one’ part of the Mass but in both?
So. . .just as only the priest may offer the bread and wine and say the words of consecration, and only the priest may say the doxology of “through him, with him, in him” because this is the ‘summit’ of the liturgy of the Eucharist. . .there is a time and a place in the liturgy of the Word where ONLY the priest or an ordained person can perform that particular ‘step’ in the Rite of the Mass.
We know that the priest is necessary to consecrate the Eucharist, but it appears that he is necessary to ‘proclaim’ that ‘written Word’ as well.
It makes sense to me. Why would the Holy Spirit NOT emphasize the necessity of the priest not just in ‘one’ part of the Mass but in both?
J
John_Lilburne
Guest
Just as seating positions in the liturgy reflect the Church’s hierarchy, so does giving people particular roles.
Perhaps this part of the GIRM will help:
“294. The People of God, gathered for Mass, has a coherent and hierarchical structure, which finds its expression in the variety of ministries and the variety of actions according to the different parts of the celebration. The general ordering of the sacred building must be such that in some way it conveys the image of the gathered assembly and allows the appropriate ordering of all the participants, as well as facilitating each in the proper carrying out of his function.
The faithful and the choir should have a place that facilitates their active participation.114
The priest celebrant, the deacon, and the other ministers have places in the sanctuary. Seats for concelebrants should also be prepared there. If, however, their number is great, seats should be arranged in another part of the church, but near the altar.
All these elements, even though they must express the hierarchical structure and the diversity of ministries, should nevertheless bring about a close and coherent unity that is clearly expressive of the unity of the entire holy people. Indeed, the character and beauty of the place and all its furnishings should foster devotion and show forth the holiness of the mysteries celebrated there.”
The Instituted Acolyte, for example, has a kind of rank in the church. His leadership role is particularly evident in the absence of a priest and deacon. This is reflected in in the liturgical books:
“18. … d. An acolyte or reader who by formal institution has this special office in the Church is rightly preferred over another layperson as the minister designated at the discretion of the local Ordinary to impart certain blessings.”
(Book of Blessings, Liturgical Press, Minnesota, 1989, ISBN 0-8146-1875-8, page xxviii.)
Similarly in the document “Directory for Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest”, 2 June 1988, of the Congregation for Divine Worship, (published by USCCB, ISBN 1555862519.):
“30. In the absence of both a priest and a deacon, the pastor is to appoint laypersons, who are to be entrusted with the care of these celebrations, namely, with leading the prayers, with the ministry of the word, and with giving holy communion.
Those to be chosen first by the pastor are readers and acolytes who have been duly instituted for the service of the altar and of the word of God.”
So by having, in the liturgy, a place in the sanctuary and a particular role of reading and purifications, these ministers become known to the community. Their position in the church’s hierarchy is better understood by that community.
Perhaps this part of the GIRM will help:
“294. The People of God, gathered for Mass, has a coherent and hierarchical structure, which finds its expression in the variety of ministries and the variety of actions according to the different parts of the celebration. The general ordering of the sacred building must be such that in some way it conveys the image of the gathered assembly and allows the appropriate ordering of all the participants, as well as facilitating each in the proper carrying out of his function.
The faithful and the choir should have a place that facilitates their active participation.114
The priest celebrant, the deacon, and the other ministers have places in the sanctuary. Seats for concelebrants should also be prepared there. If, however, their number is great, seats should be arranged in another part of the church, but near the altar.
All these elements, even though they must express the hierarchical structure and the diversity of ministries, should nevertheless bring about a close and coherent unity that is clearly expressive of the unity of the entire holy people. Indeed, the character and beauty of the place and all its furnishings should foster devotion and show forth the holiness of the mysteries celebrated there.”
The Instituted Acolyte, for example, has a kind of rank in the church. His leadership role is particularly evident in the absence of a priest and deacon. This is reflected in in the liturgical books:
“18. … d. An acolyte or reader who by formal institution has this special office in the Church is rightly preferred over another layperson as the minister designated at the discretion of the local Ordinary to impart certain blessings.”
(Book of Blessings, Liturgical Press, Minnesota, 1989, ISBN 0-8146-1875-8, page xxviii.)
Similarly in the document “Directory for Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest”, 2 June 1988, of the Congregation for Divine Worship, (published by USCCB, ISBN 1555862519.):
“30. In the absence of both a priest and a deacon, the pastor is to appoint laypersons, who are to be entrusted with the care of these celebrations, namely, with leading the prayers, with the ministry of the word, and with giving holy communion.
Those to be chosen first by the pastor are readers and acolytes who have been duly instituted for the service of the altar and of the word of God.”
So by having, in the liturgy, a place in the sanctuary and a particular role of reading and purifications, these ministers become known to the community. Their position in the church’s hierarchy is better understood by that community.
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