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LauraMajestic
Guest
I didn’t mention it because I didn’t think I would need to go into such deep analysis. It’s in the reference numbers I gave though.
It’s not as severe: I will concede that. However, it still applies.
Why do Christians have girlfriends/boyfriends before marriage when it is clearly against the message of Jesus
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It’s not as severe: I will concede that. However, it still applies.
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LauraMajestic
Guest
I didn’t say he was referencing them. I said you can use his logic and apply it.Don’t know how Jesus could be referencing girlfriends since girlfriends as we know them were the cultural norms back then.
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maryjk
Guest
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fpt
Guest
Your logic, the catholic logic is different. It is only your own interpretation.
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triumphguy
Guest
It wouldn’t be difficult to understand if dating = marriage.
But it doesn’t.
For instance you are free to have sex while married, but not while dating.
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KP3243
Guest
Unfortunately we are not allowed to speak on behalf of Jesus only His servant, the Vicar of Christ is and that title belongs to Pope Benedict XVI.
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fpt
Guest
Are you a follower of Ronald Conte Jr? I ask questions, no answer???
Jesus’ logic is Roman Catholic Logic of pope. Thus Catholic logic of pope is Jesus’ logic. Saint Peter or the Pope is the boss.
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fix
Guest
What do you know of the Catholic faith?My advice is I have a 1st Class Degree in Theology so you better stop getting so arrogant
It is not an idiotic argument.
Divorcing WIFEA and marrying WIFEB is adultery to WIFEA
therefore by Jesus’ logic
Breaking up with GIRLFRIENDA and going out with GIRLFRIEND B is unfaithful to GIRLFRIENDA
It’s straightforward.
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ccmnxc
Guest
I cannot speak for the other Christians, but since Catholics believe the Magisterium to be infallible on faith and morals (this falls under morals), and they haven’t taken it this way, neither do we.
Matthew 19: 5-6: and said, 5. ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6. So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, no human being must separate.”
I like the way Peter Kreeft puts it. Divorce is the suicide of the one flesh the husband and wife make. However, merely having affection for each other doesn’t make that one flesh. It is unification, under God, in matrimony, which obviously doesn’t apply to boyfriend and girlfriend.
Matthew 19: 5-6: and said, 5. ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6. So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, no human being must separate.”
I like the way Peter Kreeft puts it. Divorce is the suicide of the one flesh the husband and wife make. However, merely having affection for each other doesn’t make that one flesh. It is unification, under God, in matrimony, which obviously doesn’t apply to boyfriend and girlfriend.
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KP3243
Guest
We should also add that the bible says you can even commit adultery but thinking or lusting for another person who is not your spouse. The sacred covenant of marriage we enter into is that important to God.
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Sarcelle
Guest
How? Breaking up with your boyfriend or girlfriend does not equal divorce. I did not have to go to divorce court when I broke up with my boyfriend.
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fix
Guest
No, it is not. It is your private interpretation.
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tabycat
Guest
A girlfriend is NOT a wife and a boyfriend is NOT a husband, therefor you can not be unfaithful to them by going out with some one else. If you have sex with another person that you not married to that is called fornication. If you are married and have sex with someone other then your wife/husband, that is adultrery.
It is not Jesus’s logic you are using it is your own logic.
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George_Stegmeir
Guest
I am not going to debate you other than to point out that you are seriously mis-interpreting scripture in an attempt to prove a specious argument. This is common amongst those who think their reading of scripture is the only one that counts - especially by non-believers.
In this argument, you are presuming either that if you are dating someone, you have given some sort of promise of loyalty to the other person and are having some sort of sexual activity with them.
This is not true in the same way that a statement of “All people do such and such…”
All people do not do such and such, just as all people who do multiple dating do not make promises to the other party, nor do they have sex with them.
Catholics, Evangelical Christians, and both Conservative and Orthodox Jews fall into this category, as they may date, but they consider sexual activity outside of marriage to be morally wrong and sinful.
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Sarcelle
Guest
Jesus was primarily against the breaking of the marriage covenant. There is no equivalent covenant with boyfriend or girlfriend.
I suggest you read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. You can see for yourself there is no equivalent covenant for boyfriend of girlfriend.
I suggest you read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. You can see for yourself there is no equivalent covenant for boyfriend of girlfriend.
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Allegra
Guest
The problem with your logic is that a girlfriend and a wife are two completely different relationships. The reason that adultary is a sin is that it is breaking a vow and a covenant. In a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship, no such promise or contract exists. That is the nature of a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship. No promises have yet been made. Therefore, no promises can be broken. Chosing a new girlfriend when you have broken up with the first one is not being unfaithful to anyone.My advice is I have a 1st Class Degree in Theology so you better stop getting so arrogant
It is not an idiotic argument.
Divorcing WIFEA and marrying WIFEB is adultery to WIFEA
therefore by Jesus’ logic
Breaking up with GIRLFRIENDA and going out with GIRLFRIEND B is unfaithful to GIRLFRIENDA
It’s straightforward.
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Usagi
Guest
You continue to disregard (without offering any evidence as to why it should not matter) that marriage is a specific status to which principles may apply that do not apply in similar but not identical situations.
Jesus’ logic is not “every relationship you have with another person must be exclusive until death,” it is “marriage must be exclusive until death.” We do not know exactly what Jesus would have said about modern dating customs, since courtship was different in His day, but you have offered no logical necessity that compels us to apply His statements about marriage absolutely to other relationships.
It’s true that general moral principles insist on not treating other persons as objects, and some breakups may run afoul of that consideration (and all breakups involve some degree of emotional adjustment to the loss), but I am still not finding your conclusion compelling.
Do you also extend Jesus’ logic to one’s first childhood best friend and other non-romantic relationships, or do you recognize something different about relationships intended to lead to marriage? In the latter case, why do you then deny our recognition that marriage itself is different yet again?
Jesus’ statement about hardness of heart refers to the reason for Moses permitting divorce (the people would not have accepted the higher ideal then). I am not sure how you are using that to bolster your case.
Usagi
Jesus’ logic is not “every relationship you have with another person must be exclusive until death,” it is “marriage must be exclusive until death.” We do not know exactly what Jesus would have said about modern dating customs, since courtship was different in His day, but you have offered no logical necessity that compels us to apply His statements about marriage absolutely to other relationships.
It’s true that general moral principles insist on not treating other persons as objects, and some breakups may run afoul of that consideration (and all breakups involve some degree of emotional adjustment to the loss), but I am still not finding your conclusion compelling.
Do you also extend Jesus’ logic to one’s first childhood best friend and other non-romantic relationships, or do you recognize something different about relationships intended to lead to marriage? In the latter case, why do you then deny our recognition that marriage itself is different yet again?
Jesus’ statement about hardness of heart refers to the reason for Moses permitting divorce (the people would not have accepted the higher ideal then). I am not sure how you are using that to bolster your case.
Usagi
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fpt
Guest
Marriage is a natural institution invented by God by which a man and a woman enter via a agreement of will, thus it is also a natural contract. Marriage is a covenant like the alliance between God in the first covenant and in the second covenant (olde testament and new testament).
Marriage is the reflect of love God for us, in the human fashion. The fact of making one flesh has two dimensions: the union of bodies and the union of souls (sexed and sexual alterity, and sexed and sexual complementarity between the two gender).
Marriage means liberty of will for the agreement (the interior liberty and the exterior liberty of each one); The total agreement with the object of marital contract and the fundamental obligations, principle effects…etc.
Otherwise, no marriage because the declaration of nullity is possible.
Marriage is the reflect of love God for us, in the human fashion. The fact of making one flesh has two dimensions: the union of bodies and the union of souls (sexed and sexual alterity, and sexed and sexual complementarity between the two gender).
Marriage means liberty of will for the agreement (the interior liberty and the exterior liberty of each one); The total agreement with the object of marital contract and the fundamental obligations, principle effects…etc.
Otherwise, no marriage because the declaration of nullity is possible.
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KP3243
Guest
I think Catholics should be prudent and wise when they are dating if that is what you are getting at. The theology behind dating is that you need to look at the opposite sex like your brother or sister at first until you get to know them and discern if this is someone you want to enter into an eternal covenant with or not. If they are not someone you discern to be someone you want to enter into a covenant with they remain like your brother and sister if you are attracted to them and believe they are someone that can join you on your earthly pilgrimage and will not impede your relationship with God and your ultimate existence to gain heaven and be with God eternally then you pray for special grace to make sure you enter the marriage covenant correctly. The Catholic Church does not, DOES NOT, recognize divorce.
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