Why do Curses of pagans work?

[fakename]

So one hears of witchcraft etc. stories and curses. So why or does, a witches curse work?

Also how can the outward form of a oujia board, or horoscope cause a demonic possession?

Is there simply something more to this?

 

[Dorothy]

It’s not the board by itself that causes the problems, it is the use of it by those who wish to acquire “occult knowledge”, instead of freely choosing the Lord who does all good things for us.

I don’t know if I can articulate why the curses of pagans “work”, but I believe it has to do with the malice of the person, being “inspired” by the evil one, therefore being a channel of that malice.

Many times Christians forget that the power of God is greater than all of this. They need to learn to arm themselves, to put on the armor of Christ, , as it says in Ephesians 6:12, ff.

In Scripture it also says “He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.”

 

[inocente]

Witch curses don’t work. The folk who believe in them lopsidedly regard every bad thing as being part of the curse while ignoring all the good things that happen, then other folk believe their one-sided tale, etc.

Go to half-a-dozen astrologers, give them exactly the same information, and get six different predictions .

I heard one reason why ouija boards “work” is because our muscles naturally wander around, even if no one is trying to manipulate, and the effect is amplified when a number of people take part. Whatever, there’s a perfectly natural explanation, nothing to do with “spirits”.

All ideas that seek to enslave us are dangerous delusions, and to that extent you can call them demons if you want, but they can have no hold on us unless we actively let them (Romans 8:38-39).

 

[Dorothy]

Witch curses don’t work. The folk who believe in them lopsidedly regard every bad thing as being part of the curse while ignoring all the good things that happen, then other folk believe their one-sided tale, etc.

Go to half-a-dozen astrologers, give them exactly the same information, and get six different predictions .

I heard one reason why ouija boards “work” is because our muscles naturally wander around, even if no one is trying to manipulate, and the effect is amplified when a number of people take part. Whatever, there’s a perfectly natural explanation, nothing to do with “spirits”.

All ideas that seek to enslave us are dangerous delusions, and to that extent you can call them demons if you want, but they can have no hold on us unless we actively let them (Romans 8:38-39).

Scripture has a lot to say about divination:
Do not practice divination or soothsaying. [Taken from LEV 19:26]

“Do not go to mediums or consult fortune-tellers, for you will be defiled by them. I, the LORD, am your God.” [LEV 19:31]

“When you come into the land which the LORD, your God, is giving you, you shall not learn to imitate the abominations of the peoples there. Let there not be found among you anyone who immolates his son or daughter in the fire, nor a fortune-teller, soothsayer, charmer, diviner, or caster of spells, nor one who consults ghosts and spirits or seeks oracles from the dead. Anyone who does such things is an abomination to the LORD, and because of such abominations the LORD, your God, is driving these nations out of your way. You, however, must be altogether sincere toward the LORD, your God. Though these nations whom you are to dispossess listen to their soothsayers and fortune-tellers, the LORD, your God, will not permit you to do so. A prophet like me will the LORD, your God, raise up for you from among your own kinsmen; to him you shall listen.” [DEUT 18:9-15]

 

[WorkerPriest]

I think some of the confusion arises, because sometimes they “work,” and sometimes they don’t.

The reason Holy Scripture warns the people of God about messing with this kind of stuff, is precisely because of what a person interacts with (or attempts to interact with) by doing so. The spiritual world is very real, and there are things out there that desire little more than our total eternal destruction. While God and His Holy Angels are superior in every conceivable way to the demonic and satanic forces out there, the reality is that these nasty evil beings are real, and they are more powerful than any human being.

There are a lot of frauds out there in the realms of witchcraft, but there is a growing minority of folks who are actually taking it seriously and actively coming into contact with demonic forces (hence a rise in the work of bona fide exorcists, across denominational boundaries.) It is possible that demons will provide the power for a witch’s curse to have some effect, just as it is possible for a demon to provide the movement of a ouija board. When this happens, dire things can occur, and the Church has to be ready to deal with the consequences of people actively engaging demons in daily life. Demons have no love for witches, but they will use them to work the most devastation they can in the world, with the ultimate goal to destroy faith in Christ and seperate people from His saving grace.

Grace and peace be with you.

So one hears of witchcraft etc. stories and curses. So why or does, a witches curse work?

Also how can the outward form of a oujia board, or horoscope cause a demonic possession?

Is there simply something more to this?

 

[Garyjohn2]

They do work, but why? Well, when you push a box, it moves…why? Because you are exerting your force on the object.

There are a lot of differen’t “pagans” out there, so its hard to generalize. But I know that in some witchcraft, all the people are doing is exerting their will. We have spiritual power as well as physical power, and one can exert this to different effect. We do this everyday in small ways, when we focus our thoughts or our will on getting something done.

God’s power is stronger, obviously. Much stronger. The highest goal is to align our wills with the will of God. This is what is right, and the reason that we even have wills in the first place!

God can will things to be, and they are. We are created in the image of God, and have our own willpower as well. We can use it for good or for ill, for God and others, or for ourselves. That is why pagan curses work. It is a false power though, and it only leads to selfishness and self-destruction.

Yes, some people might try to tap into the power of demons, but this is darker and even more dangerous. From what I know it is more common to tap into one’s own spiritual power, of one’s soul…which is real, but should not be misused.

 

[PattiDay]

So one hears of witchcraft etc. stories and curses. So why or does, a witches curse work?

Curses only work in the mind of the one who thinks it will work.

Also how can the outward form of a oujia board, or horoscope cause a demonic possession?

A Oujia board is made of wood (probably fiberboard or plastic now). It’s the people who do the manipulating of the little table that picks out ‘the message’.

Horoscopes, if you don’t like today’s horoscope for your astrological sign, pick one you do like. Ever do that? Total silliness.

Demonic possession? The devil cannot go where it is not invited. Don’t invite it.

Is there simply something more to this?

Only if one persists in seeking out evil.

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

If one believes God is all powerful (that is if one has studied what the Church has defined as to the Nature of God) then no evil or harm can befall you unless the Lord approves it. Our Lady of Fatima asked the seers of Fatima to accept all that God sends them. This cannot be only for them, it is for us too.

It would be important to be united to God so as to know spiritually how our Lord wanted someone to accept these trials and struggles. All this should lead up to God and the evil that drags us down is teaching us that we are getting it wrong. If curses (why is this capitalized by the way?) seem to work, we are letting them “work” by our spiritual failings.

 

[Big_Dummy]

We know from Job that Satan needs permission to do anything to believers. So, if a curse is aganist a believer nothing can happen without God’s permission — in this case it could be a punishment towards discipline of an erroring believer or it simply could be a trail. Since, unbelievers are children of darkness, and thus under Satan’s Kingdom he can do things to them within Limits. I say within limits because Satan would simply destroy unbelievers before they got saved if he was without limits.

 

[vera_dicere]

I was cursed, I could go into details, but basically before that curse, I was a rather cynical Catholic in regards. And I highly doubt it was because of any sin I had committed that God was allowing this “punishment”. In much teh same way God will not interfer with someone shooting a gun in your face, He won’t interfer with some idiot toying with teh demonic. Free will. I got “cursed” because someone used theri free will to do so.

The woman who laid teh curse was a witch.

If there is a powerful God and we understand satan exists, then there’s no reason logically why curses can’t work if fixed up correctly. As for wedgie boards, they work in that the person desires them to work, a hunk of drift wood from teh beach would do the same job if smoeone truly desired to connect with teh demonic/spiritual realm/whatever.

Of course there are many different curses and the likes, it all depends what the intention of the person cursing is.

Granted, teh woman who cursed me, she ended up in one heck of a spiritual mess because it, like all curses, back fired.

 

[Damase]

The agency of demons. Seriously—all efficacious “magic” is performed by the agency of Satan.

 

[vz71]

So one hears of witchcraft etc. stories and curses. So why or does, a witches curse work?

Can you think of a better way to sow confusion about religion then to provide tangible evidence in the name of a false god? It is advantageous to satan to perform “miracles” for a pagan church to sow unbelief in God’s true church.

Also how can the outward form of a oujia board, or horoscope cause a demonic possession?

It cannot. But the openness one acquires when using such devices does invite possession.

Is there simply something more to this?

There always is. The price those pay for usage is always much more then they realize.

 

[_Gandalf]

Right of the bat I want to clear up a few misconceptions: Satan has absolutely nothing to do with Witchcraft. In fact, we don’t even believe it exists. It’s not part of our religion in anyway.*

If you are curious about how exactly magic works, there are several definitions, none of which are incorrect, but some are easier to follow. I will give a very brief description on the matter for you, if you want more detail please feel free to ask, I have no qualms with sharing my beliefs.

Generally speaking, everything is energy. That’s even true if you want to be scientific about it (E = MC^2). At it’s most basic form, Witchcraft is the pursuit of the ability to use energy. Though there are many types of energy, and many ways to channel it. For instance, you have energy. You could call it your spirit, soul, essence, chi, or whatever you like, but you have energy, and that is where it all starts. Simple magic will often only use the energy of the caster, it’s easier and simpler. Other sources for energy might be the elements, divinity, and the Universe in general. Like I said before, everything is energy, so you can get it from wherever you want to. Normally it is left up to the preference of the caster (It is often much easier to channel energy from certain sources then it is from others).
As far as the spell itself, it is using this energy to try to achieve something. If you like you can think of it like a magnifying glass. Sunlight is everywhere, but if you use the magnifying glass you can get more of it on a certain area then you otherwise would be able to.
All magic entails is using that which we where already given, and that which is around us naturally. Like I said earlier though, this is a highly simplified version. There have been many books written on the subject of channeling energy, and many Witches, myself included, still strive for a greater understanding of the process. There is always more to learn.

*Satanic Paganism in a sense does, however that isn’t even a real religion. First of all, it’s an oxymoron. I could go on, but this thread isn’t really about that, so I’ll leave it here.

 

[MtnDwellar]

Curses are real. Curses work. The word “curse” is mentioned 178 times in the bible.

Curses are easy. One of Satan’s objectives is to create chaos and havoc. He will accommodate if one asks him to do what he wants to do anyway.

The effectiveness of a curse has very little to do with the beliefs of the cursed. Most curses are cast without the cursies knowledge. It is usually better if the cursed do not know that they are cursed. If they know they have been cursed, they are more likely to take defensive measures.

 

[_Gandalf]

Curses are real. Curses work. The word “curse” is mentioned 178 times in the bible.

Curses are easy. One of Satan’s objectives is to create chaos and havoc. He will accommodate if one asks him to do what he wants to do anyway.

The effectiveness of a curse has very little to do with the beliefs of the cursed. Most curses are cast without the cursies knowledge. It is usually better if the cursed do not know that they are cursed. If they know they have been cursed, they are more likely to take defensive measures.

Though for the record, I would like to point out that curses themselves only account for a very small percentage of all magic done, and the Witches who participate in such rituals are in no way excepted by the mainstream community. Witchcraft is in general a very peaceful and unifying path, though there are bad people in virtually any crowd.

 

[MtnDwellar]

Though for the record, I would like to point out that curses themselves only account for a very small percentage of all magic done, and the Witches who participate in such rituals are in no way excepted by the mainstream community. Witchcraft is in general a very peaceful and unifying path, though there are bad people in virtually any crowd.

I don’t think that you have an accurate statistic for the class of “all magic done”. Curses are more common than most people think. Magic often ends up like a curse. The well intentioned witch or magician is selfish and others suffer as a result. In other words, the witch’s gain is someone else’s loss. The effect is like a curse.

Those who practice magic generally have a perverse and always rudimentary understanding of the way magic works. Even though the witches intend no harm they often cause harm to others and ultimately harm to themselves.

Nothing in life is free. There is no easy way. Most witches believe that they can avoid sacrifice and prayer. Their attempts at magic have a hidden price. They and those around them will pay the price.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

A lot of it has to do with the “planting of negative suggestion” … very powerful.

Not magic.

Suggestion is able to do things such as altering someone’s immune system.

There is some basis that some illnesses are REAL, but their origins are or may be psychosomatic.

There are people who have “toxic personalities” … who have an innate ability to hurt other people with words.

It can crush someone’s spirit, but it can also kill them.

One mechanism is the “double bind”.

You can look these things up.

It is also possible, by the way, to motivate people to achieve success and good health with positive words and positive exhortations.

There is a current thread on CAF that might be helpful … you can do a search for " sociopath "

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

Cursing:

…n its more common Biblical sense it means the opposite of blessing (cf. Numbers 23:27), and is generally either a threat of the Divine wrath, or its actual visitation, or its prophetic announcement, though occasionally it is a mere petition that calamity may be visited by God on persons or things in requital for wrongdoing.

In Catholicism, God is Omniscient and Omnipotent. Using God’s Creation contrary to its nature in itself or in its nature in union with God, which is its perfect good, is a defect and corruption of Good, the source of Good which is God Himself. Energy, a part of creation, is to be used in conjunction with this good that finds its source and perfection in God. Nothing happens without God’s Knowledge and tacit approval in His Divine Providence.

The three powers of the soul are Intellect, Will, and Passions. When we corrupt the nature of these with untruth, we move ourselves to act in accordance contrary to the perfection of our nature found in the Good that is God. Believing in curses contrary to God’s Omnipotence puts us in union with the corruption of good and contrary to God Himself. It is itself a lie and is in league with the Father of Lies, Satan.

 

[_Gandalf]

I don’t think that you have an accurate statistic for the class of “all magic done”. Curses are more common than most people think.

So tell me, MtnDwellar, on what authority can you make this claim? I have many years of experience in Witchcraft, and the majority of communities are against, and often strongly so, doing magic exclusively for the purpose of harming someone else; a practice that is better known as “cursing”. Though it happens, most magic is not like that.
Don’t be so quick to label the religions of others.

Magic often ends up like a curse. The well intentioned witch or magician is selfish and others suffer as a result. In other words, the witch’s gain is someone else’s loss. The effect is like a curse.

This is a claim you can make, and it’s only partially wrong. So therefore it’s also partially correct. One of the most difficult things in spellwork is controlling what it is that you are doing. Therefore an unskilled Witch might try to cast a spell and let his or her mind wonder, or might not even have clear intentions for the spell to begin with. That has the possibility of yielding the type of results you are referencing.
However, these happen as a result of mistakes by the caster, and can not be blamed on magic as a whole. Using your logic I could also reason that knives are bad, because sometimes people cut themselves, though in that example, like with magic, it is the fault of the person, and is not inherent in the knife.

Those who practice magic generally have a perverse and always rudimentary understanding of the way magic works. Even though the witches intend no harm they often cause harm to others and ultimately harm to themselves.

Once again I ask, where do you get the authority to make this claim? You as a ** Christian** are saying that we don’t know what it is we are doing with OUR religion?
Tell me, what exactly would you do if I said that Catholics have a perverse and rudimentary understanding of Jesus? You would probably be furious, and rightly so. Just as I have no right to judge even those of my own religion, and certainly don’t have a right to judge those of another, neither do you.
I would appreciate it if you tried not to be insulting in the future.

To answer your statement though, yes, that can happen. Then again, I can also cause harm to myself when I walk outside, go to work, or read the paper. Though as I said before, that is often the product of inexperience. With proper guidance or experience (Though preferably both), such things are very avoidable.
Many of the things you cite about Witchcraft come not from Witchcraft itself, but rather some of the people who practice it. It is unfortunate, but there is a counter-culture movement towards Witchcraft, so there are a lot of people who call themselves a Witch simply because they don’t want to conform, and have no real interest in the religion. These are also the types of people who might buy a book on the subject, and then decide that they are now somehow a Witch. I’ve read books about history, but am I a historian? I’ve read books about geology, but am I a geologist? I’ve read books about math, but am I a mathematician? The answer to all of these is no. It’s the flaky people who want to use the term “Witch” for their own gain, but have no interest in Witchcraft that give us a bad name.

Nothing in life is free. There is no easy way. Most witches believe that they can avoid sacrifice and prayer. Their attempts at magic have a hidden price. They and those around them will pay the price.

Well, magic isn’t really a backdoor written into the source code of life either. It’s not like the movies where you say a few funny words and get whatever you want. Everything requires energy, whether we expend that energy the mundane way or the arcane way (and often both are done), the energy is still spent.
And the only hidden price in magic is the spell itself, and is therefore not hidden at all. Like I’ve said above, if you are inexperienced you may not be able to properly control what it is that you are doing, and consequently can have negative side effects. This is one of the reasons why I always try to stress the importance of learning. You can never learn all there is to know about Witchcraft, and I believe that part of being a Witch is a desire to continue to learn about their practice.

I do want to apologize if I came off slightly rough, but I happen not to like it when I’ve been insulted. I don’t know if that was your intent, but I’m afraid that’s how it came off.

 

[MtnDwellar]

Hi Gandolf,

I am sorry that you were insulted. You should re-read my post and notice that I did not address the subjects of witches or witchcraft. This thread is about pagan curses and I was addressing magic. Witches do not have a corner on the market of magic.

Curses are fairly common. Do a Google search on How to curse people and find over 72,000,000 results. Search How to bless people and get 116,000,000. The number for blessings is larger than that of curses, but curses is still quite significant.

I will remind Gandolf that this is a Catholic Forum. I will not coddle pagans. If you want to hear like-minded views, visit a witch forum.

I will tell you that I studied Druidism. If one wants to know, I studied in the Druidic Craft of the Wise under Father Eli on a commune in Arkansas. Blessed be. One of the basic tenets presented there and under most studies of low magic is that man is divine. That’s the number one perversity. If one starts with that premise, logic can dictate that magic and the fulfillment of man’s will is legitimate. The problem is that man is not divine. Man has a divine presence within him. Although they sound similar, there is a world of difference.

Once he is convinced that man is divine, “Ye be gods”, he then begins a path of study which is designed to fulfill the needs of his lower self. If the student desires respect, love, riches, praise, approval, etc., he is told that he can achieve them through magical practices. He ignores his higher self and distances himself from God’s will.