Why do gays want marriage? What do they hope gain from it?

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spencelo said:
When two people in a committed relationship desire to get married, but the law denies them **the right **to do so, do you really have to ask why for them marriage is “such a big deal?” Again, that would be plainly insulting.
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Here’s the non-sequitor: “desire” = "right"

Same confusion many have, yet the multiplicity of their confusion does not translate into accuracy. It remains a confusion.

We do not have a right to our desires, not in any Constitution. We have a private right to pursue happiness (per the Declaration), but there is no institution (such as the State, such as any religion) which is constitutionally bound to accede to whatever we proclaim will either promote our happiness or guarantee it. We are not entitled to invent a new social contract which the State is bound to recognize, merely because it is our private desire, as an individual or as collective individuals representing an advocacy group.
 
spencelo said:
When two people in a committed relationship** desire **to get married, but the law denies them the right to do so, do you really have to ask why for them marriage is “such a big deal?” Again, that would be plainly insulting.
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Spence,

Did you know that there was a streetcar named desire. I desire lots of stuff as do lots of people. So what.
 
spencelo said:
When two people in a committed relationship desire to get married, but the law denies them the right to do so, do you really have to ask why for them marriage is “such a big deal?” Again, that would be plainly insulting.
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What is insulting is to ask rational people to accept what is irrational.
 
Coptic, I’m interested in your views on homosexuality. You seem to hold a lot of misconceptions about them, such as claiming that they’re actually heterosexual. Do you believe it should be illegal?
 
Regular_Atheist said:
Coptic, I’m interested in your views on homosexuality. You seem to hold a lot of misconceptions about them, such as claiming that they’re actually heterosexual. Do you believe it should be illegal?
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Do you believe homosexuality is a genetic trait?
 
Julia_Mae said:
Have you spoken to many gay folks about why they want to marry?
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You didn’t ask me this, but the question sparked a realization. I met a lot of gay men while I was in seminary and several have left the Catholic Church (-many worship in Episcopal churches now) and every one of them that I know of a) is for same-sex marriage but b) has no interest in getting married.
This is admittedly a small group and not a random sample. But just because someone a) advocates for same-sex marriage and b) is gay, although c) where same-sex marriage is legal, heterosexuals could enter into same-sex marriages in the same way many gay men have entered into heterosexual marriages, it d) does not mean they wish to marry, even if the law allows it.

This is not problematic in itself, but it is worth mentioning. I know a lot of gay people (-I’m now casting a wider net than ‘those I met while in seminary’) but I don’t know any gay people who want to get married. Mind you, I’m sure some do. (It seems that homosexual women are much more likely to marry than are homosexual men, which doesn’t seem to surprise anyone who tracks the numbers.)
 
Regular_Atheist said:
Coptic, I’m interested in your views on homosexuality. You seem to hold a lot of misconceptions about them, such as claiming that they’re actually heterosexual. Do you believe it should be illegal?
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Regular,

I am interested to know how it is you are the authority that claims that I have misconceptions. That I find interesting. Are you not aware that you have an opinion, I have an opinion, and I have formed that opinion.

My opinion is that we are all born heterosexual. There is no such thing in my opinion as someone born homosexual.

Do I believe what should be illegal?
 
markeverett49 said:
… but I don’t know any gay people who want to get married. Mind you, I’m sure some do. (It seems that homosexual women are much more likely to marry than are homosexual men, which doesn’t seem to surprise anyone who tracks the numbers.)
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I don’t know any gay people who want to get married, either, but I know two couples who are, one male, one female. There seems to be a lot of speculation about why being allowed to marry is on the political agenda of gay Americans. But the answers, which have no basis in fact that I can see. Why any individual wishes to marry any other individual seems to me, personal and unquantifiable. And, unless people here are claiming to be either psychic or have taken a poll, not answerable.
 
Julia_Mae said:
Since so many studies suggest a very high probability that it is a genetically linked trait, I am curious why you believe the probability lies in the other direction.
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Oh really Julia Mae, and then how come this is still rejected by many scientists? It doesn’t seen that your sentence is accurate.

sciencemag.org/content/284/5414/665.short ← This study finds that the hypothesis of women passing through the X chromosome the genetic predisposition for their male offspring to be homosexual is not observed.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1678219/pdf/bmj00033-0005.pdf ← This is a critical review opposing your statement, Julia.

Lastly,

ijpor.oxfordjournals.org/content/12/3/259.short

This study of Public Opinion finds that the more likely people believe that homosexual is genetic, then they are more likely to support homosexuality marriages. However, the evidence on homosexuality as a genetic trait is not favorable, and clear cuts as many think.
 
Julia_Mae said:
Since so many studies suggest a very high probability that it is a genetically linked trait, I am curious why you believe the probability lies in the other direction.
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Genetically influenced or genetically determined?
 
Julia_Mae said:
Since so many studies suggest a very high probability that it is a genetically linked trait, I am curious why you believe the probability lies in the other direction.
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Julia,

There is no proof that homosexuality is a genetically linked trait. Unfortunately you speak as if there is no question that it is. Provide your evidence.
 
But if all the American Catholics who support gay marriage left the Church, between that and the scandals, the American Catholic Church would be bankrupt. OTOH, at least it would solve the priest shortage. And it might be very good for the soul of the Church.
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I don’t think the Church will ever be bankrupt. The Church will expand and contract as needed just like any other social institution in the free market.

I think the bigger financial issue is closing parishes in areas that have declining populations.

A lot of Catholics leave the Church for selfish reasons, not so much on behalf of others. It’d be an interesting study, but that’d be my guess.
 
SuperLuigi said:
I don’t think the Church will ever be bankrupt. The Church will expand and contract as needed just like any other social institution in the free market.
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According to God’s provision… not the free market.
 
CopticChristian said:
Julia,

There is no proof that homosexuality is a genetically linked trait. Unfortunately you speak as if there is no question that it is. Provide your evidence.
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There is no proof that heterosexuality is a genetically linked trait. Unfortunately you speak as if there is no question that it is. Provide your evidence.

And “there’s more of us than you” isn’t evidence of genetics.

When did you choose to be attracted to the opposite sex? How old were you? Did you do it on your own or did you talk to your parents, an MD or confessor about it? Did you “try out” the other gender to make sure?

Those are all questions that have been asked of me about being gay. I didn’t choose, it just WAS. I don’t remember an age, but I do remember that when everyone else was starting to get interested in the opposite sex, I simply wasn’t. I didn’t “try out” a relationship with someone of the opposite sex because it would have been disrespectful to use another persons feelings as an experiment. I did talk to my confessor about my feelings, and that helped tremendously-understanding that Church teaching and what God really says is often vastly different than what other Catholics will say about gay people.
 
Seeker1961 said:
**There is no proof that heterosexuality is a genetically linked trait. ** Unfortunately you speak as if there is no question that it is. Provide your evidence.

And “there’s more of us than you” isn’t evidence of genetics.

When did you choose to be attracted to the opposite sex? How old were you? Did you do it on your own or did you talk to your parents, an MD or confessor about it? Did you “try out” the other gender to make sure?

Those are all questions that have been asked of me about being gay. I didn’t choose, it just WAS. I don’t remember an age, but I do remember that when everyone else was starting to get interested in the opposite sex, I simply wasn’t. I didn’t “try out” a relationship with someone of the opposite sex because it would have been disrespectful to use another persons feelings as an experiment. I did talk to my confessor about my feelings, and that helped tremendously-understanding that Church teaching and what God really says is often vastly different than what other Catholics will say about gay people.
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Seeker,

Sometimes the obvious evades our reason. There is very strong evidence that heterosexuals reproduce and homosexuals don’t.
 
CopticChristian said:
Seeker,

Sometimes the obvious evades our reason. There is very strong evidence that heterosexuals reproduce and homosexuals don’t.
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Yes, it is Genetics 101 (think about the beans). Now, it is possible that heterosexuals may produce homosexual offspring, yes, but there is no conclusive evidence of genetic transmission of such. Thus, most scientist believe that environmental factors (that is how you grew up) are more likely the reason for homosexual behavior. This is a SECULAR argument. Note that I am using current results from Science. Some even published in the Science journal, one of the most prestigious and respected in the worldwide scientific community.
 
CopticChristian said:
Seeker,

Sometimes the obvious evades our reason. There is very strong evidence that heterosexuals reproduce and homosexuals don’t.
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So that makes it obvious that ALL humans are heterosexual…ummm…really??

Keeping the species going doesn’t require that all members of said species reproduce. Shockingly enough there are straight people that do not feel a biological imperative to create new life. How do they fit into your paradigm?
 
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