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Bohm_Bawerk
Guest
Yes, it is very helpful. Thank you very much James
I still hope, however, that this experience comes to an end pretty soon. That’s the day I’m looking forward to
Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk
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I still hope, however, that this experience comes to an end pretty soon. That’s the day I’m looking forward to
Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk
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Bohm_Bawerk
Guest
I am somewhat comforted by the fact that I am not the only one. Can’t wait till this ends
Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk
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kildare
Guest
I had a despairing day as well. I tried to remember the supernatural fear I felt when I was not a believer and the supernatural love in those special moments of intimacy that one can only get when they pray pray and pray.
I wrote a poem today about feeling sad and guarding against despair.
*
Ever Wandering Sorrow,
Itinerant guide of the heart
Visit me not Tomorrow
Spare me yet your lessons so hard
Melancholy sister of Pain
Reminding mankind evicted
In my joy I beg you refrain
Ignorant but not convicted
Soon your spirit will fill the air
Tithing justly for Free Wisdom
But Ghostly dark sister Despair
Roams only outside His Kingdom*
I think despair is the thing we should always try to avoid. Suffering and Sorrow are it seems necessary in this fallen world. Always believe in G_d, even if it means shutting your ears to what you hear on the outside. There is so much bull out there, you wouldnt believe
I wrote a poem today about feeling sad and guarding against despair.
*
Ever Wandering Sorrow,
Itinerant guide of the heart
Visit me not Tomorrow
Spare me yet your lessons so hard
Melancholy sister of Pain
Reminding mankind evicted
In my joy I beg you refrain
Ignorant but not convicted
Soon your spirit will fill the air
Tithing justly for Free Wisdom
But Ghostly dark sister Despair
Roams only outside His Kingdom*
I think despair is the thing we should always try to avoid. Suffering and Sorrow are it seems necessary in this fallen world. Always believe in G_d, even if it means shutting your ears to what you hear on the outside. There is so much bull out there, you wouldnt believe
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Bohm_Bawerk
Guest
Yes, theoretically speaking, suffering is necessary. But it’s easier said than done. Even more so with the fact that I have just entered Catholicism and I prayed for 2 intentions over the course of 2 months that did not come to fruition. I didn’t even manage to get a “taster” from God lol.
I still put my faith that Catholicism is the true faith and that God exists. But how much longer I can bear a situation that no one is answering me whilst I see gleeful faces everywhere else of God answering their prayers is questionable. I wouldn’t even wish the situation I’m in on my worst enemy.
Fantastic poem by the way
Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk
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Bohm_Bawerk
Guest
And another thing, what makes you so sure that your life will make a turnaround? Intuition? “That feeling” from God? Deduction? Other?
Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk
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Bohm_Bawerk
Guest
Really interesting articles
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poor_clare
Guest
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poor_clare
Guest
Hi EugenI think it would be impossible to show the extent of my gratitude of the support you and other users’ have demonstrated here. I honestly believe this. If I don’t ever experience God in the way that I requested initially, I have, at least on this night, experienced it through all of you.
I am very glad I found this forum
Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk
Now you’re getting it!
God exists in each of us and that’s how we connect with Him. He’s in you, in all of your friends who have posted here, in all of us. Look at how many of us are here and still more seem to be posting, sharing experiences with you, encouraging you. There are no accidents. He wants you to find Him.
Be patient as so many have suggested and also along with the great suggestions for reading, maybe read the book of Job?
I’ll remember you tonight and each night in my rosary and will say a special prayer for you at Mass tomorrow.
God bless you and keep you. May the archangels watch over you.
Clare
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crazzeto
Guest
This is probably why you are experiencing itThank you for all the help and advice, both JackvK and catherine126. It is very much appreciated.
From what I’ve gathered, I’m going through a period known as the “dark night of the soul”. My only contention now is: Why me? I’m the antithesis of what is a saint, if there ever was one. The “dark night of the soul” has been described as a ‘‘blessing’’, although I’m still confused as to why me - me specifically - would receive such. It feels more like a punishment than a blessing
Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk
The evil one doesn’t think much of you going from agnostic to believer. I have no doubt there is an attempt to influence you out of the church going on.
T
theresa_bloom
Guest
I too feel somewhat better knowing that I am not alone. I sooooo share your feeling of looking forward to the end of this. I am growing weary. The 23rd Psalm is of some comfort. Also I do repeat the mantra, Jesus I place my trust in You until it feels like breathing. Hang in there. If you can do it then so can I. The reason I believe that things will turn sometime is that I have had times like this before and everything turned out better than I ever could have imagined it. Only God could have imagined it.
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Bohm_Bawerk
Guest
How long did your previous “dark night of the soul” periods last, generally speaking?
Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk
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Bohm_Bawerk
Guest
B
Bohm_Bawerk
Guest
Thank you very much Clare for your unending support - makes me want to remain within the Catholic faith even more. I am highly undeserving of residing in your memories, but if you insist. . .
As for Job, I was always quite afraid of that story. It shows God as dealing and bartering with Satan, and Job being at the receiving end of the “experiment”. I always had great pity for Job; I hope he is in Heaven right now. Are there any other verses/stories that may get me through this difficult time? As a matter of fact, I should be brushing up my knowledge on the events in the New Testament, since I haven’t quite read the Bible in years.
Thank you,
**Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk **
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djeter
Guest
Michael Novak wrote this in “No One Sees God:”
One Comes To Know His Presence
I came to learn that, while one can come to know that God is present, our minds are unable to form an adequate conception of Him, or to grasp Him with any of our five senses, or to imagine Him. His mode of drawing us into His presence is necessarily by way of absence, silence, nothingness. I remember an image fixed in my mind by the poetry of Saint John of the Cross, mentioned earlier: “The place where he . . . was awaiting me – A place where none appeared.”
It must necessarily be so. The true God is beyond human concepts, senses, imagination, memory. On those frequencies, He is not reachable. Mother Teresa of Calcutta acknowledged her inability to reach God on human wavelengths in a 1979 letter to one of her spiritual directors, the Reverend Michael Van Der Peet:
“Jesus has a very special love for you. [But] as for me – the silence and the emptiness is so great – that I look and do not see – listen and do not hear”
If a Christian has not yet known this darkness and aridity, it is a sign that the Lord is still treating him like a child at the breast, too unformed for the adult darkness in which alone the true God is found. Any who think they can make idols, or images, or pictures, or concepts of God remain underdeveloped in their faith. Darkness is not a sign of unbelief, or even of doubt, but a sign of the true relation between the Creator and the creature. God is not on our frequency; and when we get beyond our usual range, which in prayer we must, we reach only darkness. This is painful. In a way, it does make one doubt; in another way, experience shows us that when one is no longer a child, one leaves childish ways behind.
Our intellects, our will – these can reach out to God, like arrows of inquiry shot up into the infinite night. These are not shot in vain. They mark out a direction. Waiting in silence, in abandonment, even in the dry sands of the desert, one comes to know His presence. Not believe in it. Know it.
In a 1959 interview with the BBC, C. G. Jung once made the same point. Asked whether he believed in God, Jung replied, “I don’t believe – I know.” This is a dark knowledge. One cannot expect anyone else to know it, unless they have also walked the rocky and darkling path – or somehow by God’s grace been brought to it by a different journey, along a different route. Ascent of the Mountain, Plight of the Dove, I called another book of mine.
Some of us labor sweatily, others are borne on eagle’s wings.
I do not mean that this knowledge consists of warm sentiments, feelings of devotion, uplift, and “faith.” I mean a certain quiet emptiness. A dark resonance of wills. Echo to echo.
Mother Teresa wrote of her own emptiness in 1961: “I accept not in my feelings – but with my will, the Will of God – I accept His will.”
This is not a “will” characterized by effort, unrelenting desire, unshakable determination. I mean something almost the opposite: the quiet of abandonment, and trust. This is another mode of will, quite different from the striving will. It is. the willingness to forgo any other reinforcement except the blind and dark love we direct toward that infinite Light, on which we cannot set our eyes.
Nor do I mean a turning away from intellect or rationality On the contrary, I mean taking these with utter seriousness “all the way down” to the very roots of the universe. I mean trusting our own rationality our own intellect. I mean serene confidence in infinite Light, even when our senses go quite dark. Trust the light, the evidence-demanding eros of inquiry, within us. I mean the suffering love in which that Light issues forth among us. Not to, remove us from suffering. But to transfigure us by means of it.
God bless you, Eugen. You have chosen a difficult path in choosing faith, but I think you are well on your way.
dj
J
JesuXPIPassio
Guest
Because it’s happened before. I’ve had crises, then it came around and benefitted me in the end. It’s like a ribbon wrapped around a gift. A strip of material came around, seemed to be entangling me, but in the end it all came together and made a nice bow (lame analogy, sorry!).
When I was a young teen, I had an extremely big problem. It was the first life-altering disaster that I had. It was extremely painful and difficult to deal with. But it turned out to be in my favour and it actually benefitted me and made me happy. I didn’t realise how unhappy I was with my old life; I had a lot going for me and onlookers would agree that I was living nicely. I thought I had lost that. But the changes I had made me more happy and on a deeper level. It was like the Allegory of the Cave (know it? I’ll tell you about it if you don’t, it’s something they teach about in college philosophy classes; it may or may not be relevant to your problem right now, but it’s useful knowledge and a good parable about human nature).
I’m not saying that my life became Nirvana – having God doesn’t give you heaven on earth, and saints suffered for their faith (there are those spiritually-shallow or underdeveloped and think that and it’s ridiculous; even God suffered as a human, so being a saint doesn’t exempt you from that). Like I said, I suffered enormously in 2008 (it was so bad that I put on a lot of weight and people didn’t even recognise me, though I lost the weight in 2009) and I’m still waiting for the bow to be tied, but it will. It happened before, time and again, it’ll happen again now.
I’m sorry, I know the way I’m talking is difficult to understand since I’m not really giving specific details, but the problems that came truly were big, I don’t wanna air out my dirty laundry here. But, trust me, it really went that way.
One of my friends tells me my life is like a soap opera, and he’s right, bizarre things have happened, so I think I’ve had my share of misfortune.
I do think that prayer is what made it all come together. I’m making that judgement because it doesn’t seem like that people who don’t develop their prayer life have their bows tied. Of course the opposite view is that people who pray (and most importantly, pray well) are deluded, so their opium of religion cushions their falls. I don’t believe that was true in my case, and those nay-sayers won’t really understand it unless they experience it themselves.
I think “faith” is kind of a bad word. We call what we have faith, but in our society it’s such an uncertain word. I think “trust” is a better word. You don’t have faith that the sun will rise in the morning; you trust it will. So instead of telling you to have faith, I’ll tell you to have trust.
M
Monica4316
Guest
Hi,
I think that there are many reasons why a person could feel forsaken by God. In any case, we are never truly forsaken. Those who are furthest from God are those who don’t realize it. If you feel the distance between you and God, that’s a great start already
Many of the Saints have experienced dryness and felt completely abandoned by God… during this time, they were actually closest to Him, and pleased Him the most with their faith, and really grew in their love for God… only they didn’t realize it at the time. Not only Saints go through the “dark night”, and perhaps this is something like what you are experiencing.
But also, sometimes the aridity that we feel is our fault… I’ve found the only way to fix it then is through repentance, humility, and trust. It’s great that you are going to Confession and that might really help God is close to those who are humble… just surrender yourself to Him, don’t put timelines on your prayers, - just leave everything to Him and trust in His goodness. Pray with trust and humility. Repent of all sins, not just in your mind, but in your heart. Even if you won’t feel a change at first, this really helps spiritually.
Try to focus more on the ‘fruits’ of your faith rather than on the feelings. Pray not for consolation, but to be strengthened and to love God. Don’t ever ask for visions or revelations because if you expect such things, you’re opening yourself up to possible deception. Just try to rely on faith and ask for grace, not feelings, and the feelings will come in time maybe God is trying to make you stronger.
A question that I sometimes have is whether dryness is our fault or if it’s a trial… I thought of a way to tell them apart. If it’s the person’s fault, then it makes them more indifferent towards God and weakens them spiritually. If it’s a trial, it also produces greater love for God and endurance, and God also upholds the soul through hope and faith. If you want to be with God, that is already a grace and proof that He is working in your soul. Such a soul can come back to God after a fall. But if a person doesn’t care, and doesn’t want God, that is a dangerous thing and a problem.
God bless
I think that there are many reasons why a person could feel forsaken by God. In any case, we are never truly forsaken. Those who are furthest from God are those who don’t realize it. If you feel the distance between you and God, that’s a great start already
Many of the Saints have experienced dryness and felt completely abandoned by God… during this time, they were actually closest to Him, and pleased Him the most with their faith, and really grew in their love for God… only they didn’t realize it at the time. Not only Saints go through the “dark night”, and perhaps this is something like what you are experiencing.
But also, sometimes the aridity that we feel is our fault… I’ve found the only way to fix it then is through repentance, humility, and trust. It’s great that you are going to Confession and that might really help
God is close to those who are humble… just surrender yourself to Him, don’t put timelines on your prayers, - just leave everything to Him and trust in His goodness. Pray with trust and humility. Repent of all sins, not just in your mind, but in your heart. Even if you won’t feel a change at first, this really helps spiritually.Try to focus more on the ‘fruits’ of your faith rather than on the feelings. Pray not for consolation, but to be strengthened and to love God. Don’t ever ask for visions or revelations because if you expect such things, you’re opening yourself up to possible deception. Just try to rely on faith and ask for grace, not feelings, and the feelings will come in time
maybe God is trying to make you stronger.A question that I sometimes have is whether dryness is our fault or if it’s a trial… I thought of a way to tell them apart. If it’s the person’s fault, then it makes them more indifferent towards God and weakens them spiritually. If it’s a trial, it also produces greater love for God and endurance, and God also upholds the soul through hope and faith. If you want to be with God, that is already a grace and proof that He is working in your soul. Such a soul can come back to God after a fall. But if a person doesn’t care, and doesn’t want God, that is a dangerous thing and a problem.
God bless
B
Bohm_Bawerk
Guest
Yes, I have read that allegory from Plato. It is quite a brilliant read
Well, your past experiences matches exactly mine. Although right now I still find it difficult to ascertain what precisely I’ve learned from this situation, I hope I do when I move away from this tempest, which judging by the testimonies here, will be inevitable.
You’ve actually described what I used to believe as an Agnostic, namely that religion was and is often used as some sort of “opium” and has no direct positive contribution to a situation. The power of “positive thinking”, in a few words. From what I’ve read, that is not the case
Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk
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poor_clare
Guest
Hi EugenThank you very much Clare for your unending support - makes me want to remain within the Catholic faith even more. I am highly undeserving of residing in your memories, but if you insist. . .
As for Job, I was always quite afraid of that story. It shows God as dealing and bartering with Satan, and Job being at the receiving end of the “experiment”. I always had great pity for Job; I hope he is in Heaven right now. Are there any other verses/stories that may get me through this difficult time? As a matter of fact, I should be brushing up my knowledge on the events in the New Testament, since I haven’t quite read the Bible in years.
Thank you,
**Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk **
The story of Job’s tribulations has a happy ending because he didn’t give up. You know it’s an allegory, right? It’s a book in the Old Testament.
If you’re looking for some good passages Psalm 27, the Beatitudes, John’s Gospel makes pretty good reading.
Also receiving communion as often as you can is also helpful.
May God bless you today.
Clare
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Bohm_Bawerk
Guest
Do you know any saints off the top of your head that you would recommend to me, so that I may read their story(ies)?
Which is why I honestly can’t wait for my Confession to begin, which is tomorrow (Saturday, 4th September 2010). Yes, I do want to be with God, which may suggest that it is “from God”. However, at the same time, isn’t this a trial, because I am in a state of mortal sin? I do find myself sometimes shouting inaudibly at my window looking to the sky, with a thought at the back of my mind, that either “God has permanently forsaken me” or “maybe this is all one big hoax”. I do try to combat this with the fact that my life actually went downhill during the period I was agnostic, compared to the earlier parts in my life which was relatively stable and I believed in God.But also, sometimes the aridity that we feel is our fault… I’ve found the only way to fix it then is through repentance, humility, and trust. It’s great that you are going to Confession and that might really help
I also can’t wait for Confession because I’ll then be able to receive Communion, which I haven’t done so in years.
I like your writing style by the way, weirdly. It is extremely lucid
Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk
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Bohm_Bawerk
Guest
I always thought it was an account of an event that actually took place
. Well, it’s reassuring that it’s an allegory Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk
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