Why do liberal Catholics stay in the Church?

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Not infallible, but you’re obliged to follow it, while seeking to forming it more perfectly.
But conscience and “thinking for yourself” are linked. Forming your conscience is dependent on right reason. What I have observed in people who use this excuse is that they have formed their conscience through rationalization.

A priest once told me that if he became convinced that the CC no longer taught the truth, he would be conscience-bound to look for it elsewhere. So why do liberal Catholics stay in the Church if they are conscience-bound to find truth elsewhere? Sounds like they are not following their conscience.
 
Fear of being wrong is one of the great hindrances to living and thinking virtuously. I see that fear all over this forum.
You have no objective insight into which forum members are motivated to follow Church teachings because of “fear.” Nor is a desire to follow Church teachings “a hindrance to living and thinking virtuously.” :rolleyes:
 
You have no objective insight into which forum members are motivated to follow Church teachings because of “fear.” Nor is a desire to follow Church teachings “a hindrance to living and thinking virtuously.” :rolleyes:
👍
 
Is this how you define liberalism? He didn’t eat with them and say, “Have a nice day.” He said, “Sin no more,” a part that liberals constantly overlook when quoting scripture.
I didn’t define liberalism…the fact the Jesus allowed women into his inner circle was unheard of in his day and would have been seen as highly liberal by the conservatives of his time.
The essence of today’s liberalism is tolerance über alles. The central credo of modern liberalism is that all intolerance and discrimination must be eliminated. In a society dedicated to that proposition, the good itself must ultimately be seen as evil, because the good discriminates against evil, while evil must be blessed with victim status, because it is excluded by the good. Thus the constant liberal harping on “discrimination”. Thus the Catholic Church is “evil” because it excludes anti-Catholic ideas. You are no different. You want these groups not to be discriminated against and to be included in Catholicism, but their beliefs are diametrically opposed to basic Catholic beliefs. As anti-social ideas advocated by liberals would destroy organized society, including non-Catholic ideas into Catholicism would destroy the Church, which has been the liberal goal all along. Jesus might have forgiven the sins of prostitutes, et al, but he did not tolerate sin. So, I don’t think Jesus advocated tolerance über alles. Therefore, he was not a liberal, by your definition or mine.
While I appreciate you offering an opinion your personal attack makes it clear to me that you just don’t get it. A non-dualistic viewpoint must allow for all views and find ways of inclusion, not exclusion. Your certainty of your own righteousness leaves no room for the Spirit to be operating and is therefor entirely self/ego-serving.
In March 1996, Bishop Bruskewitz of the Diocese of Lincoln, Nebraska excommunicated all Catholics in his diocese who were members of Call to Action or several other dissident groups which he described as “totally incompatible with the Catholic faith.” The Vatican affirmed the excommunication, and rightfully so; these organizations are heretical, meaning they seek to introduce error into Church teaching.

I’m not sure what you mean by “a balanced view of reality;” sounds like relativism.
Many saints were seen as heretical in their day also. From that perspective your view of reality is no more valid or invalid then anyone else’s…it is however, only your view. Balanced is not relativism…it is the rainbow that lies between the extremes of conservative and liberal values and perspectives.
 
Again, why are we trying to paint Jesus as either a liberal or a conservative? :confused:
 
I didn’t define liberalism…the fact the Jesus allowed women into his inner circle was unheard of in his day and would have been seen as highly liberal by the conservatives of his time. .
And that’s not an example of why he was liberal?
While I appreciate you offering an opinion your personal attack makes it clear to me that you just don’t get it. A non-dualistic viewpoint must allow for all views and find ways of inclusion, not exclusion. Your certainty of your own righteousness leaves no room for the Spirit to be operating and is therefor entirely self/ego-serving.
So, what don’t I “get”? Your accusation of self-righteousness is ironic. To me there are few who are more self-righteous than the one who thinks he is right, even to the obstinate point of excommunication, and the defender of 2,000 years of Church teaching and tradition is wrong. These people are practicing what I call the “Gospel in Reverse”. Jesus commissioned his first apostles to “go into the world and preach the Gospel, teaching what I have taught you.” He did not commission them to “go into the world, find out what the current liberal ideas are and bring them back and incorporate them into my church.”

Not only are they self-righteous, they are selfish. There are churches that teach what these people want. As I stated, why don’t they go join one of them? They won’t because they are selfish. If they got what they wanted, where does that leave the vast majority who don’t want it? Without, that’s what.
Many saints were seen as heretical in their day also.
I read the book, and you can count them on the fingers of one hand. To say these dissenters are all saints to the man is stretching credibility.
From that perspective your view of reality is no more valid or invalid then anyone else’s…it is however, only your view. Balanced is not relativism…it is the rainbow that lies between the extremes of conservative and liberal values and perspectives.
This is relativism. Everyone has his own truth. If I say to you, “I think you should go jump off a cliff,” and you think it would be a bad idea, does my “view of reality” have equal “perspective” with yours? Obviously not. There has to be an arbitrator, so the Church steps in and says to me that I am in error; and since error has no rights, we are no longer to consider whether tskrobacz should jump. The Church says these dissenters are wrong, and you say they are right. Which “perspective” has the more weight? As I said above, the good itself must ultimately be seen as evil, because the good discriminates against evil, while evil must be blessed with victim status, because it is excluded by the good. This is at the core of liberalism.

“The indispensable condition of our personal spiritual survival, is that we say NO to the prevailing values of the liberal order and that we keep saying NO.”
 
I didn’t define liberalism…the fact the Jesus allowed women into his inner circle was unheard of in his day and would have been seen as highly liberal by the conservatives of his time.
It would not have been understood as “liberal.” That is a modern term which has certain political positions as its reference points. His association with women was a challenge against a cultural norm – not unlike traditional Catholicism is a challenge against the current cultural norms of U.S. society. 😉
While I appreciate you offering an opinion your personal attack makes it clear to me that you just don’t get it.
What, in Catholic terms, doesn’t he “get”?
A non-dualistic viewpoint must allow for all views and find ways of inclusion, not exclusion. Your certainty of your own righteousness leaves no room for the Spirit to be operating and is therefor entirely self/ego-serving.
How has he talked about his own ego?
:confused:

It’s not necessary to be so harsh or go on the attack.
🤷
 
I’m am neither conservative or liberal I’d say I’m in the middle taking what works best for me in my values and faith. Both are evil in their fullness as far as I’m concerned.
 
Again, why are we trying to paint Jesus as either a liberal or a conservative? :confused:
Agreed… the balanced view seeks the good wisdom of the rainbow of perspectives. While certain “conservative” or “liberal” groups may tout what appear to be extremist ideas - wisdom will always seek unity and common ground, not divisiveness. In fact the question posed by the OP is itself a divisive statement as it seeks to exclude.
 
I’ve noticed that it’s possible to be considered a conservative catholic by humanity and the church at large but be considered a heretical “liberal” on the catholic answers forum.
 
After reading through this thread, it’s my opinion that it’s simply an occasion of sin and should be closed. Deleted would be good.
 
There can be an occasion of sin without forum rules being broken. She may be referring to the labelling and divisiveness aspects which tends to arise in discussions like this.
 
There can be an occasion of sin without forum rules being broken. She may be referring to the labelling and divisiveness aspects which tends to arise in discussions like this.
Ah, I see.

Well, if a member were calling another member a divisive name, then perhaps it would be an occasion of sin (and, IMHO, that might even be arguable), but it seems that we are speaking here of principles and generalities…and that is certainly a fruitful and valid dialogue, no?
 
People can get impassioned and personal about principles and generalities.
🙂
 
Answer to PRMerger:
Not unless it really deterioriates into out-and-out off-topic conversations or uncharitable name-calling/endless ego-battles. That happened on another thread recently in a different subforum. I agree that it doesn’t seem to have happened here.
 
I’ve noticed that it’s possible to be considered a conservative catholic by humanity and the church at large but be considered a heretical “liberal” on the catholic answers forum.
Well I’m considered quite conservative and even “quaint” just for actually attending Mass every Sunday (among my friends of many stripes, most of whom, I admit, are not currently practicing Catholicism, even if baptized).
 
Answer to PRMerger:
Not unless it really deterioriates into out-and-out off-topic conversations or uncharitable name-calling/endless ego-battles. That happened on another thread recently in a different subforum. ** I agree that it doesn’t seem to have happened here**.
Yep. That’s why I found the comment made earlier so peculiar.
 
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