Why do liberals act like they can't live without contraception and abortions?

[pismopal]

Let’s see. I decided to be sexually active but recognized that I was in college and unable to support a child. So I called a clinic, got a PAP, breast exam, and general physical. Then went over my options, took a few days to do independent research and think it over, made a decision, went back and got a prescription, which I refill every three months and remember to take every night.

During this time I also had a long discussion about monogamy and where our relationship was headed with my then boyfriend, now fiance.

This all seems pretty responsible to me.

And what is with this conservatives don’t have sex attitude? Conservatives have just as much sex and just as many partners as liberals, and they use just as many condoms and birth control pills.

I stand by what I said about liberals. The evidence is so massive that I would hardly know where to start making the case and I fail to see why I should go to the trouble. You take birth control pills because you have decided to have regular sexual relations with your boyfriend. I do not see how this demonstrates how personally responsible you are. Sexual relationships outside marriage have more consequences than getting pregnant, although this is one of the more serious. I would consider anyone who becomes pregnant and then brings the child into the world as being an example of what I mean by personal responsibility. People who take birth control pills are simply avoiding what they consider to be a serious inconvenience…not a demonstration of responsibility.
Your remarks about conservatives and sex are a complete puzzle to me and has nothing to do with what I said about liberals.

 

[LaMusicaSenior]

I stand by what I said about liberals. The evidence is so massive that I would hardly know where to start making the case and I fail to see why I should go to the trouble. You take birth control pills because you have decided to have regular sexual relations with your boyfriend. I do not see how this demonstrates how personally responsible you are. Sexual relationships outside marriage have more consequences than getting pregnant, although this is one of the more serious. I would consider anyone who becomes pregnant and then brings the child into the world as being an example of what I mean by personal responsibility. People who take birth control pills are simply avoiding what they consider to be a serious inconvenience…not a demonstration of responsibility.
Your remarks about conservatives and sex are a complete puzzle to me and has nothing to do with what I said about liberals.

^

Man is naturally religous. If his journey does not end in him coming to God, he creates gods for himself. In the case of someone using birth control, the god is convience and a denial of responsibility and consequences of actions.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

It seems like they think having the pill and abortions is more important than having air to breathe or food to eat. I don’t know why they cling to this so much especially since the pill causes an increased risk for cancer in women.

Do you have ANY proof for this large claim?

 

[AngryAtheist8]

I’m conservative, and I don’t smoke. I also wouldn’t care if they banned smoking. And I’ve met many liberals who are smokers. So your stereotype for conservatives just doesn’t stick.

Politics and greed are driving the “debate”. The pill industry would lose millions or billions of dollars a year if word got out that it causes cancer. The multi-billion dollar porn industry is also using their money to make sure that contraception and abortions are promoted since they need it to support their human sex trafficking business which is modern day slavery.

DO YOU HAVE ANY PROOF of this claim?
Or are you simply unable to see any difference between voluntary porn stars and sex slaves?

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Liberals have a hard time with the concept of personal responsibility and this extends far past the above issues.

**Another **statement unsupported by any facts or evidence.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Originally Posted by Dale_M
If there was a realistic possibility of their access to air or food being cut off, I suspect they would object even more strongly than they do to the possibility of having abortion or contraception unavailable.

Women who value access to abortion or contraception aren’t just liberals. They value such access because it provides freedom in their lives which they wouldn’t otherwise have. Being able to choose when to have a child, and not live in fear of accidental pregnancy, reduces stress and provides opportunities in life.

You are confusing freedom with license. But what I don’t get is how people are surprised or devastated when pregnancy happens from sex. It’s like thinking that getting wet shouldn’t be a part of swimming. Whether by “casual sex” or even rape, the baby should not get the death penalty for a crime she did not commit. A society that doesn’t see that babies are a miracle of life given to us from God is a society without love.

Am I correct in assuming that you are one of those who thinks that when people make decisions that you regard as bad and/or immoral, that’s not them exercising freedom but license instead?

 

[CrimsonThorn]

DO YOU HAVE ANY PROOF of this claim?
Or are you simply unable to see any difference between voluntary porn stars and sex slaves?

They are slaves without realizing it. Just as an alcoholic or drug addict is a slave, even though they voluntarily consent to drinking or doing drugs.

 

[pismopal]

**Another **statement unsupported by any facts or evidence.

Liberals politicians have spent huge amounts of money, most of it borrowed, on social programs (most of them a waste and all of them riddled with fraud and abuse) and on benefits for themselves and for the economic underclass in an attempt to maintain power. They have extended entitlements to an ever broadening percentage of the population to a point where only approximately half of Americans pay federal income tax and a staggering 40% are receiving some kind of government monetary assistance. These are just a couple of facts for you but I am going to bet that you do not consider these as a demonstration of the lack of personal responsibility by liberals. I am a conservative…I do not spend money I do not have or ask others to take responsibility for my mistakes. I do not walk down my street asking neighbors to donate money to me for medical care. I did not buy a house that I could not afford banking that in a year it would be worth twice what I paid for it and could sell for a profit and when I find out that it is not worth what I had anticipated …walk away from it and let the tax payers worry about it. I try to vote reflecting the way I live my life…conservatively. Please tell me an example of liberals who are demonstrating personal responsibility…of special interest would be politicians.

 

[interestedman]

The pill can cause long-term problems with hormone levels - meaning women who get off it wanting to get pregant found that they have ruined their fertility.

Our family friend is a pharmacist and he was telling us of a woman who is in the ICU right now because blood clots keep going to her heat - and the reason they are tracing these clots back to? The pill.

Since 1975 there has been a 400% increase in “in situ” breast cancer among pre-menopausal women under 50 years old. This mirrors the increased use of birth control over these same years. (“In situ” is a medical term which means “at the location”

How about the danger to the unborn child? One cannot claim to be pro-life and pro-contraception. It is now said that for every 1 child born, 2 have been killed by surgical and chemical contraceptives.

When you take God out of His gift of human sexulaity, you will end up paying the consequences - if not in this life, in the one to come.

Lets just look up “birth control cancer” on google scholar and look at some studies.

aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/136/10/1184.short

“These observations suggest that pregnancy, breast feeding, and oral contraceptive use induce biological changes that protect against ovarian malignancy”

cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/19/10/2496.short

During 1,246,967 person-years of follow-up, 1,344 cases of invasive breast cancer were diagnosed. Past use of any oral contraceptive was not related to breast cancer risk [multivariate relative risk (RR), 1.12; 95% confidence interval 0.95-1.33]. Current use of any oral contraceptive was related to a marginally significant higher risk (multivariate RR, 1.33; 95% CI, 1.03-1.73). One specific formulation substantially accounted for the excess risk: the RR for current use of triphasic preparations with levonorgestrel as the progestin was 3.05 (95% CI, 2.00-4.66; P < 0.0001).

This basically says that current use of birth control shows a slightly significant higher risk for breast cancer but this is likely due to one specific formulation. Also note that during the study about 1 in 1000 women developed breast cancer. And according to other studies the fact that the pill seems to be protective against ovarian cancer it might be a complete wash.

 

[interestedman]

Thumbs up for spreading misinformation?

 

[interestedman]

^

Man is naturally religous. If his journey does not end in him coming to God, he creates gods for himself. In the case of someone using birth control, the god is convience and a denial of responsibility and consequences of actions.

Man might be naturally religious but that is because of evolution.

 

[interestedman]

Liberals politicians have spent huge amounts of money, most of it borrowed, on social programs (most of them a waste and all of them riddled with fraud and abuse) and on benefits for themselves and for the economic underclass in an attempt to maintain power. They have extended entitlements to an ever broadening percentage of the population to a point where only approximately half of Americans pay federal income tax and a staggering 40% are receiving some kind of government monetary assistance. These are just a couple of facts for you but I am going to bet that you do not consider these as a demonstration of the lack of personal responsibility by liberals. I am a conservative…I do not spend money I do not have or ask others to take responsibility for my mistakes. I do not walk down my street asking neighbors to donate money to me for medical care. I did not buy a house that I could not afford banking that in a year it would be worth twice what I paid for it and could sell for a profit and when I find out that it is not worth what I had anticipated …walk away from it and let the tax payers worry about it. I try to vote reflecting the way I live my life…conservatively. Please tell me an example of liberals who are demonstrating personal responsibility…of special interest would be politicians.

Those horrible liberals! You know, helping the poor, how HORRIBLE!

 

[CrimsonThorn]

Those horrible liberals! You know, helping the poor, how HORRIBLE!

Helping the poor and killing babies! How very saintly!

 

[thewanderer]

Can this thread be closed?

 

[pete_29]

Man might be naturally religious but that is because of evolution.

Got any proof,( He asks knowingly)

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Love.

Now then, OP. The main trend that I see from liberalism is the freedom from personal responsibility. The liberal is content to be a cog in the machine that (name removed by moderator)uts X amount of work a day in exchange for Y amount of money to spend on A, B, and C. They are willing, as a generalization, to pay GIGANTIC amounts of taxes in order to not have to think about day-to-day survival. A liberal would be delighted to have a government agency controlling industry, economics, transportation, food production, law, health, education and communication, so long as they were free to write and say what they wished. A liberal is, again, generally speaking, a fan of big government regulation. And thus is, again, generally speaking, not a fan of personal responsibility which is required if we are to have control of ourselves in everyday life. This is in all forms of interaction, but most especially in sexual relationships. Where as the conservative would prefer to trust himself (or herself, DON’T HIT ME!) to control their reproduction by use of responsible sex, a liberal would rather have the government provide birth control or murder, and thus be able to experience “reproductive freedom”. They aren’t pro-choice. They’re pro freedom-from-choice.

Make sense?

How does that make any sense at all?
Conservatives are *all about *laws legally restricting people’s marital and/or sexual choices.
Half a century ago a big issue for them was interracial marriage (they were against it).

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Many of them have been indoctrinated at school, home, even at church, and certainly by big media. Also, many really don’t want more than one or two children, or any but they do want " relationships. " And of course you are absolutely right about the medical risks of the pill. But the big danger is that using the pill, etc encourages promiscurity and it has been shown that even a little promiscuity will expose one to all kinds of diseases.

And of course there is the moral ramifications. **Eveyone knows these things are wrong and all who partake endanger their souls. **This applies to unbelievers as well. To say God doesn’t exist will not make him go away. He put the natural law in the hearts of all, believers and unbelievers alike and he will hold us accountable - one and all, believer and unbeliever alike.

Completely and obviously false.
If *everyone knew *what you suggest, there would be no debate.
There would be no need.

Everyone would already KNOW what the right thing to do was.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

First, this question is worded in such an inflammatory way as to produce more heat than light in this thread.

Second, I’m a liberal, but I certainly don’t act as though having the pill and abortions is more important than having air or food. In fact, I don’t know anyone of any political stripe that says that, though I understand your hyperbole.

Third, no one in political discourse talks about the real issue: sexual behavior. The left puts it in terms of “reproductive freedom.” The right is now come lately to the “religious freedom” argument. But fundamentally, the political issue is whether the government has the legitimate authority:
(a) to regulate how a woman may manage her fertility – meaning the likelihood of conception,
(b) to compel employers to pay for insurance policies that allow a woman to manage her fertility in all possible ways (e.g., abstinence, NFP, artificial contraception) without making demands on her sexual behavior, and
(c) to prevent a woman from terminating a pregnancy for any reason (which includes the use of abortion as an insurance policy against both failed management of fertility and rape).

(a) pertains to what the government used to do: outlawing artificial contraception;
(b) pertains to the DHHS mandate;
(c) pertains to abortion regulation.

On the issue of “the pill” and contraception, one notable research finding is that under the present cultural mores, education programs involving “comprehensive sex education” are effective at reducing the rate of STD infection and seem to reduce the onset of sexual behavior in teens. Abstinence-only policies are ineffective, largely because they attempt to use a school or government program to counteract cultural trends.

There is an unwillingness to talk about sexual behavior. Most people would like to feel that their frequency and timing of sexual activity is a matter of personal choice. Using artificial contraception enables that freedom.

Good point:thumbsup:

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Originally Posted by George Stegmeir
The answer is quite simple. All you have to do is look at European and
American society before “THE PILL”. Without contreception and abortion on demand, liberals would have to give up indiscriminate sexual intercours whenever they want it because women would be too afraid of getting pregnant.
In addition, considering who gets most abortions in the US, without abortion on demand, the caucasian population in the US would be in the minority within 25 years. The tacit fact that liberals don’t talk about and couldn’t abide if it happened.

It’s all about sex. For them, sexual license is the first freedom.

Based on what?

 

[AngryAtheist8]

My wife is conservative, has never used contraception, and was a virgin when we got married. That destroys the liberal claim that all women use contraception and can’t live without abortions.

No one claimed ALL women use contraception.
Your responding to something you claimed.
In other words…you are debating yourself