Why do liberals act like they can't live without contraception and abortions?

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neophyte said:
That’s like laying your hand down on a table and swinging an ax at it, and saying that you accidentally cut your fingers off.
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Obviously this is not true, as evidenced by the decline in birth rate, and the decline in big families. Most families have 1-2 children.
 
holyrood said:
Where, then, do we draw the line? Couldn’t we say most acts forbidden by law are people’s opinions of what’s right and wrong guided by religious values?
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Even if that were true, abortion is allowed by other religions in very limited senarios, especially if the woman’s health is at risk. This would be true of the Jewish religion for sure. If I’m not mistaken, this would be allowed by Muslims and most non-Catholic Christians.
holyrood said:
To my knowledge, every religion views murder as wrong.
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It’s actually a sin to NOT intervene by terminating a pregnancy if the woman’s health is at risk for the Jewish. They don’t believe that it’s murder. And if I’m not mistaken, neither do Muslims. In fact most people draw the line for rape, incest and when the woman’s life is in danger. It’s a slim minority of people who think it should be outlawed for even these cases, and they would be considered extreme.
 
Apparently, uynder Jewish law, there would need to be a direct and immediate threat to a mother’s life in order to justify an abortion. Such cases are rare, far fewer than 1% of abortions currently.

"As a general rule, abortion in Judaism is permitted only if there is a direct threat to the life of the mother by carrying the fetus to term or through the act of childbirth. "

Source: aish.com/ci/sam/48954946.html

In contrast to this, Roe v Wade and Doe v Bolton essentially allowed abortion for pretty much any reason through 9 months of pregnancy. The “health” exception in Doe is big enough to drive several 18-wheelers through.
 
AngryAtheist8 said:
Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8
Why assume the theoretical lover wants to have kids either?
That’s a big assumption.

You are showing a fundamental lack of understanding regarding sex.
There are plenty of reasons to have sex other than your own pleasure or the desire for children.

Such as:
-To bond with and/or influence a lover.
-To make somebody feel better.
-To manipulate someone into doing what you want.
-To make money.
-To make somebody else jealous.
-In order to appease somebody more powerful.

And many many other reasons.
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And all these reasons you listed are still centered around self gratification and selfishness.
 
Rence said:
Even if that were true, abortion is allowed by other religions in very limited senarios, especially if the woman’s health is at risk. This would be true of the Jewish religion for sure. If I’m not mistaken, this would be allowed by Muslims and most non-Catholic Christians.

It’s actually a sin to NOT intervene by terminating a pregnancy if the woman’s health is at risk for the Jewish. They don’t believe that it’s murder. And if I’m not mistaken, neither do Muslims. In fact most people draw the line for rape, incest and when the woman’s life is in danger. It’s a slim minority of people who think it should be outlawed for even these cases, and they would be considered extreme.
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Thank you for bringing this up - I was not aware of the Jewish People’s stance on abortion.

Yet, I believe abortion should never be legal. In case of rape and incest, the child should never be murdered for the sin of their parent. Maybe I am considered “extreme,” by some, but it is never justifiable to kill an unborn, innocent life.
 
Rence said:
That’s right. Some people are perplexed by the notion that one would want to get married and/or have sex without wanting children. But others may be perplexed by the insistence that the two have to go together. MANY people want to get married and engage in the marital embrace for the above reasons and see nothing wrong with it. I was raised to believe it was never wrong to engage in the marital embrace, and that didn’t always mean a kid a year or every two years. That’s just not the way people think anymore. The life expectancy of people is much higher, and the child’s life expectancy has improved very greatly since the days when it was common to have a baker’s dozen of kids.
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True enough.
Modern people tend to forget that one of the main reasons our ancestors had so many kids was because of the (unfortunately reasonable) expectation that many (or even most) of their kids wouldn’t survive to adulthood.
 
neophyte said:
That’s like laying your hand down on a table and swinging an ax at it, and saying that you accidentally cut your fingers off. Or putting sperm and an egg together in a petri dish and saying you accidentally ended up with a zygote.

It’s not an accident. It’s of the substance of the act. The purpose of sex is babies and bonding. By definition, a pregnancy that results from sexual intercourse is not an accident.
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Not true when there’s force involved and/or the people having sex are under the influence.
 
livingwordunity said:
Since liberals claim that contraception/abortions must be mandated to all women, the assumption behind that is that all women use it. My wife is one example that I know of that proves that assumption wrong.
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LOL…maybe your understanding of the mandate is off. Women are supposed to have birth control available to them if they want it. They aren’t made to take it.
 
Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8
Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8
Why assume the theoretical lover wants to have kids either?
That’s a big assumption.

You are showing a fundamental lack of understanding regarding sex.
There are plenty of reasons to have sex other than your own pleasure or the desire for children.

Such as:
-To bond with and/or influence a lover.
-To make somebody feel better.
-To manipulate someone into doing what you want.
-To make money.
-To make somebody else jealous.
-In order to appease somebody more powerful.

And many many other reasons.
CrimsonThorn said:
And all these reasons you listed are still centered around self gratification and selfishness.
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A desire to make somebody feel better is selfish:rolleyes:
 
interestedman said:
Lets just look up “birth control cancer” on google scholar and look at some studies.

aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/136/10/1184.short

“These observations suggest that pregnancy, breast feeding, and oral contraceptive use induce biological changes that protect against ovarian malignancy”

cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/19/10/2496.short

During 1,246,967 person-years of follow-up, 1,344 cases of invasive breast cancer were diagnosed. Past use of any oral contraceptive was not related to breast cancer risk [multivariate relative risk (RR), 1.12; 95% confidence interval 0.95-1.33]. Current use of any oral contraceptive was related to a marginally significant higher risk (multivariate RR, 1.33; 95% CI, 1.03-1.73). One specific formulation substantially accounted for the excess risk: the RR for current use of triphasic preparations with levonorgestrel as the progestin was 3.05 (95% CI, 2.00-4.66; P < 0.0001).

This basically says that current use of birth control shows a slightly significant higher risk for breast cancer but this is likely due to one specific formulation. Also note that during the study about 1 in 1000 women developed breast cancer. And according to other studies the fact that the pill seems to be protective against ovarian cancer it might be a complete wash.
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I also like that no one has addressed this post. People keep saying “birth control causes cancer!!!” yet can’t produce any study showing its harmfulness. They just keep quoting some group that said it was a cancer causing agent.
 
LaMusicaSenior said:
Thank you for bringing this up - I was not aware of the Jewish People’s stance on abortion.

Yet, I believe abortion should never be legal. In case of rape and incest, the child should never be murdered for the sin of their parent. Maybe I am considered “extreme,” by some, but it is never justifiable to kill an unborn, innocent life.
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I notice that you don’t mention the common health exception.

And its worth noting…
If a pregnancy kills a pregnant woman, the unborn fetus is NOT saved but dies with the woman instead (generally speaking).
 
AngryAtheist8 said:
Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8
Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8
Why assume the theoretical lover wants to have kids either?
That’s a big assumption.

You are showing a fundamental lack of understanding regarding sex.
There are plenty of reasons to have sex other than your own pleasure or the desire for children.

Such as:
-To bond with and/or influence a lover.
-To make somebody feel better.
-To manipulate someone into doing what you want.
-To make money.
-To make somebody else jealous.
-In order to appease somebody more powerful.

And many many other reasons.

A desire to make somebody feel better is selfish:rolleyes:
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It would depend on your motivation to make someone feel better. I must confess, when my wife is upset, I try to make her feel better because I hate to see her upset, but part of the reason is because when my wife is happy, my life is easier.
 
AngryAtheist8 said:
I notice that you don’t mention the common health exception.

And its worth noting…
If a pregnancy kills a pregnant woman, the unborn fetus is NOT saved but dies with the woman instead (generally speaking).
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If this was the only circumstance in which abortion was legal, that is the high likelihood of the death of the mother, I don’t think you’d see anywhere near the protest from the pro-life movement that you see now. To tell the truth, I don’t know how I would react if it came down to a choice between my wife and my child, but it is my opinion that " pro-choicers" wouldn’t go for only that option because they see abortion as just another form of birth control.
 
interestedman said:
Those horrible liberals! You know, helping the poor, how HORRIBLE!
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Yes…ruining this country’s economy is very helpful to poor people. And I disagree that every person who takes financial assistance actually deserves it. I have never understood why some people don’t get that but I refuse to surrender my common sense to people who describe me as cruel and heartless because I don’t want to give away the store. Have a nice day…that is my way of saying goodbye to you…I am sure you get that.
 
livingwordunity said:
It seems like they think having the pill and abortions is more important than having air to breathe or food to eat. I don’t know why they cling to this so much especially since the pill causes an increased risk for cancer in women.
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They have been deceived by a culture that lies to them. They have bought the lie that my personal decisions are MY RIGHT, we know that isn’t true. They also have bought into the culture of death’s lie that unborn children are blobs of tissue not persons of sacred worth. And while you’re talking about food, the culture of death has now deemed that food and water are “extraordinary medical treatment” that can be discontinued when someone is on life support and should die. Their life is deemed “unworthy” by someone outside of them and then food and water are cut off so they can begin their “dying process”. Using these terms that are devoid of emotion/compassion is the way the death culture makes it all sound sterile/antiseptic/neutral and scientific. It’s all about selfishness, murder, and death when your life has been deemed a pain in someone’s rear or inconvenient to your family.

It’s all a big lie. So why are we surprised when people in white coats convince the masses that they should act this way? We must “show a more excellent way” and fight the culture of death’s movement toward killing those who are a “drain on the system” or who are “inconvenient”.

rosarygirl1962.blog.com/2012/08/20/hhs-a-government-that-keeps-its-promises/

I talk about it in my blog. We are headed toward more and more outright murder, it’s already happening. I’m not surprised at the ferocity of their agenda. I’m surprised at the lack of ferocity with our response. We’re starting to wake up but we must do more.
 
AngryAtheist8 said:
True enough.
Modern people tend to forget that one of the main reasons our ancestors had so many kids was because of the (unfortunately reasonable) expectation that many (or even most) of their kids wouldn’t survive to adulthood.
Click to expand...
Now it’s common that innocent babies get killed in the womb of their mother. And liberals call this progress.
 
AngryAtheist8 said:
Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8
Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8
Why assume the theoretical lover wants to have kids either?
That’s a big assumption.

You are showing a fundamental lack of understanding regarding sex.
There are plenty of reasons to have sex other than your own pleasure or the desire for children.

Such as:
-To bond with and/or influence a lover.
-To make somebody feel better.
-To manipulate someone into doing what you want.
-To make money.
-To make somebody else jealous.
-In order to appease somebody more powerful.

And many many other reasons.

A desire to make somebody feel better is selfish:rolleyes:
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Arent there other ways to make a person feel better? Or is fornication the ONLY option?

Keep in mind that the “person whos feeling better” can also be the selfish one, using the person whos fornicating with them as a tool that is only there to make them feel better, instead of seeing them as a respectable person who theyre committed to (being married and using contraception is not being comitted).
 
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