Why do liberals like Islam when Islamic Sharia law condemns homosexuals to death?

[Madaglan]

My impression is that many liberals distinguish between what they see as peaceful Muslims and those fundamentalist Muslims who perpetrate violence in the name of Islam.

I imagine liberals especially warm up to Muslims who have been integrated into the Western humanistic tradition, who oppose violent punishments such as stoning, and who speak the language of rights (human rights, women’s rights, etc.).

 

[CopticChristian]

On what planet is the “bending over backwards” taking place?

Tracer,

I see that you are banned. Please recall that on many occasions I suggested that if you are Catholic that you should get catechized.

I also suggested that if you were not Catholic and just using the name that your messages would and should be seen as dishonest and deceptive.

I pray that you find solace in your quest.

 

[sedonaman]

Of course not.
Because the idea that the Nazis and other Fascists were left-wing is a myth promoted by American conservatives/right-wingers that everyone else rightfully finds laughable.

American conservatives/right-wingers?

"Left-wing Fascism: An Intellectual Disorder"
By John J. Ray

A Leftist prophet

The ideas of Benito Mussolini, the founder of Fascism, are remarkably similar to the ideas of modern-day Western Leftists. If Mussolini was not the direct teacher of modern-day Leftists, he was certainly a major predecessor. What Leftists advocate today is not, of course, totally identical with what Mussolini was advocating and doing 60 to 80 years ago in Italy but there are nonetheless extensive and amazing parallels.

The popular view

Popular encyclopedias such as Funk & Wagnalls lump together Hitler’s German regime, Mussolini’s Italian regime, General Tojo’s Japanese regime and Generalissimo Franco’s Spanish regime under the single rubric of “fascist” so it seems clear that it is the accepted wisdom that all four regimes were basically similar and differed only in matters of detail. Anyone who knows even a little of the history of the period concerned, however, must realize how far from the truth this is. The feudal warlords of Japan, the anti-Semitic socialist of Germany, the Conservative Catholic monarchist of Spain and the pragmatic socialist of Italy were in fact united over only one thing: Their dislike of Lenin and Stalin’s Communism and “Bolshevism” generally. There clearly is some need, therefore, for us to look at what Mussolini and the Fascists really were and did. …

FrontPageMagazine.com | October 22, 2002
archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=21599

It should be noted that Prof. Ray is Australian. The myth that fascism is on the extreme right is maintained to this day because Hitler and Stalin were enemies in WW-II. But they conveniently forget that up until the invasion of Russia, they had been allies. Having a sympathetic press also helps perpetuate this myth.

---

“We’ve been invaded!” – Lillian Hellman rushing into a New York cocktail party, on Hitler’s invasion of Russia

 

[Kaninchen]

The myth that fascism is on the extreme right is maintained to this day because Hitler and Stalin were enemies in WW-II. But they conveniently forget that up until the invasion of Russia, they had been allies. Having a sympathetic press also helps perpetuate this myth.

Well, the idea that Fascists and Nazis were other than far right would have certainly surprised Italians and Germans of the time.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Originally Posted by sedonaman
The myth that fascism is on the extreme right is maintained to this day because Hitler and Stalin were enemies in WW-II. But they conveniently forget that up until the invasion of Russia, they had been allies. Having a sympathetic press also helps perpetuate this myth.

Well, the idea that Fascists and Nazis were other than far right would have certainly surprised Italians and Germans of the time.

I view it as on par with claims that the KKK isn’t racist.

 

[livingwordunity]

Originally Posted by sedonaman
The myth that fascism is on the extreme right is maintained to this day because Hitler and Stalin were enemies in WW-II. But they conveniently forget that up until the invasion of Russia, they had been allies. Having a sympathetic press also helps perpetuate this myth.

I view it as on par with claims that the KKK isn’t racist.

Do you agree that Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood, was a racist? She actually gave a talk to the KKK as a guest speaker. She, like Hitler, was obsessed with eugenics. And today liberals believe she was a hero.

 

[sedonaman]

Do you agree that Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood, was a racist? She actually gave a talk to the KKK as a guest speaker. She, like Hitler, was obsessed with eugenics. And today liberals believe she was a hero.

“The problem with liberals is they know a lot of things that are just not true.” – Ronald Reagen.

 

[Crescentinus]

“The problem with liberals is they know a lot of things that are just not true.” – Ronald Reagen.

^This!

 

[ebonykawai]

This is a strange post full of unsupported generalizations

I know, really! Yet another “the great Catholic Us vs all you other stupid people” post on CAF.

 

[AzzurriFan]

This is a strange post full of unsupported generalizations

.

I’m not that quick, maybe someone could help me out. What is everyone talking about? It must just be me who’s having trouble following what’s being said here, considering all the posts already in this thread. OP, what exactly do you mean by ‘liberal’? I think that term can mean something a little different to different people. Also, what do you mean by ‘Islam’? Sunni, Shia, a Sufi sect? What do you mean by Sharia law? Do mean who it’s interpreted and applied in a particular country?

This discussion needs clarity if we want this thread to be more than unsubstantiated generalizations.

Oh, and to throw my hat into the opinion ring: I’m a conservative (social, that is, not as much fiscal), and don’t ‘hate’ Islam or Muslims. I disagree with many of the main tenets of the faith, which is why I’m Catholic and not Muslim. But I don’t hate or dislike it.

AzzurriFan

 

[robwar]

I’m a liberal, but I can only speak for myself and my own feelings. Also, I’m from the US, and I only know American Muslims, so I’m primarily thinking about them in the following.

I certainly do not call anyone bigots, unless the definition unequivocally fits (like with the KKK).

I feel drawn to defend anyone who I feel is being unjustly ganged up on. After 9/11, a lot of anti-Islam attitudes suddenly popped up, and a lot of innocent Muslims were affected by this prejudice. I suppose its the same sort of thing that happened during WWII to Japanese Americans (though not as bad in this case, fortunately). At least as practiced in the US, Islam is generally a harmless, peaceful religion, and Muslim Americans just want to go about their business, practice their religion, and not be harassed. They didn’t like Osama bin Laden any more than the rest of us did. Even on this board, which usually has a higher standard of behavior than most internet forums, there is far too much uninformed anti-Muslim rhetoric. So, I feel drawn to defend them.

I know only a bit about Sharia law. There are some parts that I find praiseworthy, some parts that I find appalling, and some parts that I’m neutral about. In general, I don’t want to live under Sharia law. But, I don’t mind if US courts need to refer to Sharia law,

No Muslim American that I know of wants to impose Sharia law on the US.

In summary, I defend Islam because I see that it needs defenders in the US. If I lived in an Islamic country where it was the Catholics who were being oppressed, then I would spend more time defending Catholicism.

With all do respect to you wanting to defend Sharia law, in areas with large Muslim populations, they do want judges to use Sharia Law. You do not want to live under Sharia law. You would be supporting stoning for adultery, hands and feet being cut off for stealing. Women are treated as second class citizens under Sharia law. A women’s testimony is only given half the weight of a man. That is why rape is often results in the victim being stoned to death. A man can have up to 4 wives under sharia law. While this thread is why liberals ( and I think they mean the press) seems to support Islam and Sharia law, the bigger issue is the way Sharia law treats women. That is scarier than anything else and show the hypocrisy of modern liberal feminism.

 

[robwar]

Do you agree that Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood, was a racist? She actually gave a talk to the KKK as a guest speaker. She, like Hitler, was obsessed with eugenics. And today liberals believe she was a hero.

Yes and she wanted to do this to control the family sizes of “poor brown people”. it is glossed over and swept under the carpet.

 

[robwar]

I think the thread should say why does the mainstream media (most of whom tend to be liberal) seem to support Islam, Islamic states ( which most are not democracies) and the growing push on our judges to use Sharia Law. Many true liberals would find these this appalling. Catholic do not push judges to decide cases using Canon Law of the Church.
While most Muslims want to live peaceful quite lives, follow their faith and understanding of it and try to live holy lives, Islam has been spread by aggressive war. To have the media gloss these things over and worry constantly about how Muslim might be treated in a free and open society, they totally ignore how Christians and Jews and other faiths are being treated in Muslim countries. They are taxed heavily, it is a capital crime to leave Islam, women have no voice and are properties of men. These things should be a concern to all of us, how our brothers and sisters in the faith are persecuted and killed and driven from their homes.

 

[SteveVH]

For those liberals who would like to see Sharia law, they should first live in a Muslim country that practices it, especially females.

 

[meltzerboy]

I don’t even understand what you are saying here.
No group of people gives another group of people a “free pass” if they are harming another human being.
And not many people–liberal or otherwise–bend over backwards to defend…or agree with…any religious group who sentences someone to death.

People who are inclusive and loving of others, be they liberal or conservative, get upset at groups–be they political or religious–that condemn another person for who they are.
Period.
Many people think trying to keep two gay people who love each other from getting married is bigotry.
Many more people think executing a gay person because of their sexual orientation is even worse.

The bigots and the victims can and do come from various political, religious, ethnic, cultural groups.

I agree with you, DaddyGirl. Neither liberals nor conservatives approve of murder. Besides, liberals would never want any kind of religious law imposed on society, whether it is Sharia Law, Torah Law, or Canon Law.

 

[pismopal]

It is because like most Americans, they know absolutely nothing about Islam; and, being for the most part young, think they are invincible.
The punishment of homosexuals in the Islamic world (the Mid_East) depends largely upon ones place in society.Bi-sexuality is widely tolerated amongst the educated and upper classes and is rarely punished. This has been historically reported and commented upon by many authors, such as Sir Richard Burton* from the mid-nineteenth century until modern times.
*Sir Richard Burton was a noted 19th Century Orientalist who, amongst other things, translated “The Thousand and One Nights” commonly known as “The Arabian Nights” into English.

I don’t think one needs to know much about Islam other than it’s fruits.

 

[AzzurriFan]

I think the thread should say why does the mainstream media (most of whom tend to be liberal) seem to support Islam, Islamic states ( which most are not democracies) and the growing push on our judges to use Sharia Law. Many true liberals would find these this appalling. Catholic do not push judges to decide cases using Canon Law of the Church.
While most Muslims want to live peaceful quite lives, follow their faith and understanding of it and try to live holy lives, Islam has been spread by aggressive war. To have the media gloss these things over and worry constantly about how Muslim might be treated in a free and open society, they totally ignore how Christians and Jews and other faiths are being treated in Muslim countries. They are taxed heavily, it is a capital crime to leave Islam, women have no voice and are properties of men. These things should be a concern to all of us, how our brothers and sisters in the faith are persecuted and killed and driven from their homes.

Robwar, what do you mean when you reference ‘the growing push on our judges to use Sharia Law’? I’ve heard a lot about people saying that they fear this very thing happening, but precious little about anyone actually trying to do it. So, what are the examples of the push to replace the current legal codes with legal interpretations consistent with Sharia?

Also, do you have examples of the mainstream media supporting Islam or Islamic states? I don’t see a ton of tv-love for these myself.

I agree that we must remember and help our brothers and sisters in faith whenever possible (as we should remember and help all people regardless of their faith when they need help). The media should cover these events of mistreatment. But why should anyone be surprised that for example, U.S.-based media would cover hate crimes against Muslims in the U.S.?

AzzurriFan

 

[cmforte]

You mean the mosque that has operated as a worship center for Muslims in New York long before 911 occured? The mosque that is not at “ground zero” but blocks away? The Orthodox church that was damaged in 911 is not allowed to repair the damage?

Exactly. It’s not ON Ground Zero and we’re suppose to have religious freedom in the USA…and not just for Jews and christians.

-Chris

 

[robwar]

Robwar, what do you mean when you reference ‘the growing push on our judges to use Sharia Law’? I’ve heard a lot about people saying that they fear this very thing happening, but precious little about anyone actually trying to do it. So, what are the examples of the push to replace the current legal codes with legal interpretations consistent with Sharia?

Also, do you have examples of the mainstream media supporting Islam or Islamic states? I don’t see a ton of tv-love for these myself.

I agree that we must remember and help our brothers and sisters in faith whenever possible (as we should remember and help all people regardless of their faith when they need help). The media should cover these events of mistreatment. But why should anyone be surprised that for example, U.S.-based media would cover hate crimes against Muslims in the U.S.?

AzzurriFan

there have been a number of cases in Michigan and else where that the people involved were Muslim and wanted the court to consider and use Sharia Law. I don’t want to see any one harassed Muslim or not, here or anywhere. I think this thread would be better titled using main stream media, ( the main news outlets, channels etc) and the often glossing over, over looking Islam, its history, its practice and what really goes on in Muslim dominated countries. There is too much fear if we say anything that is considered negative about Islam. When the Danish cartoonist published cartoons about Muhammed, there was such an uproar and death threats over it from all over. Instead of defending freedom of speech, the media condemned the publication. but if the Pope is made fun of, do you see Catholics make death threats? No, you find the news media just go along. This is a double standard that I think many posts on this thread are upset about. When the Dutch film maker made a documentary about what happens to women in Muslim countries, he is murdered yet, the main stream media hardly blinks about it. The horrible attack on the Sikh temple is terrible but the media want to paint it as a mistaken crime to target Muslim because the men wear a turbine. I don’t think that most liberals really want or support Sharia Law or Islam. But the dominate media in this country is showing its bias and doing the usual dishonest job in reporting. There have been schools in places like California where students were to learn Muslim prayers and recite them but ban all other prayers. It’s a double standard that is wrong.

 

[IbnFiktur]

I keep seeing posters throw this whole “Sharia Law” term around, and not a single coherent definition of what exactly is meant by it. I would ask that anyone who intends to make claims about “Sharia Law” at least provide us with a working definition of what you’re talking about. Questions to answer:

-What is Sharia law?
-Who legislates Sharia law?
-Is there such a thing as a single, all-encompassing codex entitled Sharia? (hint: the answer is no.)

My point here is that saying that a judge is promoting “Sharia Law” is just as vague as saying that a judge is promoting “Judeo-Christian values.”