Why do lutherans call themselves evangelical catholics?

[JonNC]

So we are agreed, then.

Lutherans ought not call themselves Catholics.
Catholics ought not call themselves Evangelicals.

Thus, your statement here below seems amiss. Lutherans ought to take some offense at Catholics using the term Evangelical.

I’ve never heard a Catholic call him/herself and Evangelical. Even if I did, I wouldn’t take offense as much as I would find it odd. I don’t have a problem with “Evangelical Catholic” because I know the background of the recent Catholic usage of it.

If I took any offense at all, it would be at the way American evangelicals seem to have reworked its meaning, excluding the sacraments, etc.

Jon

 

[Porknpie]

This is really great news!

This is a very inaccurate statement to make about JonNC. He comprehends Catholicism better than most Catholics.

Yep. And Jon would make a great RCIA teacher as well…

Perhaps…Someday.

 

[guanophore]

What prevents the autocephalous Eastern Orthodox churches from being likewise instituttionally united?

I am not aware that they are not.

If there were an ecumenical council, I would expect the patriarch of each autocephalous church to be present (or their delegate) and all would be on equal footing.

This is the case with the 23 Catholic Rites that are in communion with the successor of Peter.

 

[JonNC]

Yep. And Jon would make a great RCIA teacher as well…

Perhaps…Someday.

Thanks, pork, but I think you’re overstating my rather modest knowledge.
What I do know is due in large part to folks like you, PR, and guan.

Jon

 

[7_Sorrows]

I would say having knowledge of catholicism is not the same as belonging to the Catholic church and living your life as a Catholic.

If some Catholics can be charismatic why can’t some Catholics be evangelical?

 

[7_Sorrows]

If by “you”, you mean, a generic “you”, as in, “When people say that they are evangelical catholic you * have no comprehension of what it means”…

then I say:

https://imgur.com/jFi4HM3

However, if you are asserting that JonNC has no comprehension of what it means to be Catholic, then I will have to respectfully disagree with you on that. JonNC’s knowledge of Catholicism is much better than the average lump-in-the-pew parishioner.

Oh so you are a Nene fan!

 

[7_Sorrows]

I’m sorry I’ve made you angry or frustrated. That wasn’t my intent.

Jon

No worries Jon. I have read your posts for several years here at CAF.
I know your are level headed.

However, I am beginning to understand why I stopped going to church for so many years. And beginning to wonder if it was a mistake returning.

 

[guanophore]

I would say having knowledge of catholicism is not the same as belonging to the Catholic church and living your life as a Catholic.

This is certainly true, but as you may know, the majority of American Catholics not only lack a sufficient understanding of their faith, but are not living their lives with Catholicity. Most do not attend weekly Mass, and blatantly disregard basic teachings.

I am confident that, comparing JonNC’s religious practice, it comes out miles ahead of such nominal Catholics.

If some Catholics can be charismatic why can’t some Catholics be evangelical?

Indeed, we are all called to be filled with the HS, and to live evangelical lives. Personally, I am not a very good evangelist, but I do support ministries that do evangelism. We are all called to live our lives so as to introduce the world to Christ, and to inspire our brothers and sisters in Christ.

One thing I have noticed, though, is that Catholics tend to be very private and personal about their faith, and many are not taught the basic skills of “evangelism” like shariing their experiences of the Lord with others.

I think that the emphasis on “evangelical” though, and my Lutheran siblings can correct me if I am wrong) is the emphasis on the Gospel of Grace, ,which seems to have been overshadowed in Germany at the time of the Reformation. Salvation by grace, through faith, is very Catholic.

 

[Annie39]

No worries Jon. I have read your posts for several years here at CAF.
I know your are level headed.

However, I am beginning to understand why I stopped going to church for so many years. And beginning to wonder if it was a mistake returning.

7 sorrows may I ask why you think that it was a mistake for you to return to the Church? How sad that would be. Jon is Lutheran and no matter how much he protests that he is Catholic he isn’t. The Catholic Church determines this sort of thing. He is not allowed to receive the true Eucharist. You are. If he does receive the Eucharist in the Catholic Church it is a sacrilege I hope that you will remain in the Church. I left the Church for around 10 years and I have deeply regretted it.

Annie

 

[7_Sorrows]

From Romeo and Juliet: “What’s in a name? That which we call a rose by any other word would smell as sweet…”

Sorry, Shakespeare, apparently there is sometimes quite a lot in a name!

I don’t think Shakespeare was a fool.

Before I joined the Catholic church my Hebrew teacher told me I didn’t know what I was doing. Maybe she knew what was better for me than I did!

 

[meltzerboy]

I don’t think Shakespeare was a fool.

Before I joined the Catholic church my Hebrew teacher told me I didn’t know what I was doing. Maybe she knew what was better for me than I did!

This is a good thread, 7 Sorrows. But comments by others on this thread should not be a determining factor in your leaving the Church that you returned to. I have no idea what your Hebrew teacher meant by her remark, but if you have any doubts about the Church and its teachings, perhaps you should confide in a priest and listen to his advice.

 

[7_Sorrows]

7 sorrows may I ask why you think that it was a mistake for you to return to the Church? How sad that would be. Jon is Lutheran and no matter how much he protests that he is Catholic he isn’t. The Catholic Church determines this sort of thing. He is not allowed to receive the true Eucharist. You are. If he does receive the Eucharist in the Catholic Church it is a sacrilege I hope that you will remain in the Church. I left the Church for around 10 years and I have deeply regretted it.

Annie

I am glad to see you defend the Catholic faith. If I were a non-christian reading this thread I would come away with belonging to a church creayed less than 500 years ago is no different than belonging to the church started by Jesus Christ himself! I lived some of my life as a protestant and I saw what happened because there was no authority. I wanted truth and to be part of one body so I joined the Catholic church.
I know there are a lot of Catholics who take their faith for granted but thry shouldn’t. The Holy Spirit has worked to preserve the Catholic Church for over 2000 years.

 

[7_Sorrows]

This is a good thread, 7 Sorrows. But comments by others on this thread should not be a determining factor in your leaving the Church that you returned to. I have no idea what your Hebrew teacher meant by her remark, but if you have any doubts about the Church and its teachings, perhaps you should confide in a priest and listen to his advice.

No meltzerboy it is not comments on this thread necessarily. And I don’t want to go into the specifics here but it is frustrating when you are searching for truth somewhere and there is just a lot of confusion.

 

[guanophore]

No meltzerboy it is not comments on this thread necessarily. And I don’t want to go into the specifics here but it is frustrating when you are searching for truth somewhere and there is just a lot of confusion.

This is certainly true 7 Sorrows, and I think when this happens it is a strong call for us to look deep within, to find and follow the image of God inside that is free of confusion and cannot be marred. Sometimes it is difficult, in our fallen state, to seek and find the Kingdom that is within us, but some cannot progress spiritually without this deep inner journey.

Not all souls are called to the Dark Night, but those who are cannot find peace without it.

 

[KjetilK]

I am not aware that they are not.

If there were an ecumenical council, I would expect the patriarch of each autocephalous church to be present (or their delegate) and all would be on equal footing.

This is the case with the 23 Catholic Rites that are in communion with the successor of Peter.

I fail to see your point. If there was an ecumenical council, and we were invited, I would be surprised if the Church of England didn’t come to. That doesn’t mean that we share the same day to day governance. Does the Patriarch of, say, Moscow, have a say in the day to day governance of, say, the Churches under the Patriarch of Alexandria?

If not, what is your point?

 

[meltzerboy]

No meltzerboy it is not comments on this thread necessarily. And I don’t want to go into the specifics here but it is frustrating when you are searching for truth somewhere and there is just a lot of confusion.

My philosophy lesson of the day. I think most of us at one time or another in our lives feel confused in our search for the truth, particularly when it comes to faith. Eventually, though, it may be a good idea to stop searching and instead find what you believe offers the truth, and stick with it. Otherwise, you become a perpetual seeker and questioner but never a finder and believer.

 

[JonNC]

No worries Jon. I have read your posts for several years here at CAF.
I know your are level headed.

However, I am beginning to understand why I stopped going to church for so many years. And beginning to wonder if it was a mistake returning.

Of course it was not a mistake to return. Let nothing and no one convince you otherwise. Let no online conversation deter you. If something I said puts doubt in you, I insist that you put me on ignore.

Jon

 

[spina1953]

Hi guanophore: I have to agree with you on your post. it seems to me that there are plenty of Catholic’s in name only who do not know their faith and many who do not care one way or the other and for the most part either disregard in part or in whole what the CC teaches. I am sure this is true of Protestants. I know from experience that Catechism is not always being taught to the young in the way that it should and so many really do not even understand, while many do not go to Catholic schools due to the high price or distance to travel.

                      I tried teaching a catechism class for 5th graders and I was told to let them use coloring books instead of teaching them and let them do as they please, so I decided that I could not teach that way, as it was I thought that was not the way to help the kids learn about their faith. So that to is a problem in some places. Obviously I quit trying to teach, because I was not really teaching anything.

                   Like you, I am not very good at being an evangelist so I try instead to preach by example though I am not very good at that either but I try.

 

[guanophore]

I fail to see your point. If there was an ecumenical council, and we were invited, I would be surprised if the Church of England didn’t come to. That doesn’t mean that we share the same day to day governance. Does the Patriarch of, say, Moscow, have a say in the day to day governance of, say, the Churches under the Patriarch of Alexandria?

If not, what is your point?

My point is seeking unity. If the Anglicans and Lutherans are in full communion with one another, or fellowship,to me this seems to be a significant step in the healing of wounds to unity.

No, what I was asking is a council that involved Lutherans and Anglicans (only). Or do you think it is unnecessary to address those areas where disagreement remains?

 

[marywarfield]

I don’t understand this.
Martin Luther was a Catholic. His followers
seperated themselves from the RC but they ALSO
were Catholics.
Lutheranism is rooted in Catholicism. It can’t be
disputed. The differences are severe- more severe
than EO- but we don’t have cows every time an EO
calls himself a Catholic do we?
If they want to call themselves Catholic so what?
That’s what they sprung from and it’s the very least
of our problems.