Why do Mass attendance and new vocations continue to collapse?

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“Uh, yeah you guys are right, what I’m saying is too mysterious! Call that crowd back! Let’s say whatever gets them to stay or gets our numbers up!!”
Aquineas11, I’m not talking about the Mysteries of Faith. Of course, God and His Salvation Plan are mysterious to mere human beings. Of course, we can’t “explain” God fully.

I’m talking about the little (and big) “traditions” (small “t”) that make the Mass and the Church difficult and at times frustrating for newbies and non-religious people and non-Catholics to follow.

And I’m not proposing that these traditions be done away with or simplified. What I’m proposing is that these “mysteries” be explained in a modern pamphlet or in an online site that people can easily obtain and read through. In other words, catechesis–explanations.

My husband and I would have never come into the Catholic Church if we had been kept in the dark about the Mass and other “Catholic” practices. Fortunately, as Evangelical Protestants who were used to studying and seeking understanding, we made an appointment with a priest in the parish that we first visited (and we were utterly confused about the OF Mass–it did not look in the least bit “Protestant” to us, other than the Lord’s Prayer–and that had a different “ending” in the Catholic Church!).

That dear priest verbally walked us through the Mass from start to finish, explaining everything from the Bible (he knew we were Evangelical Protestant–smart man!). And then he recommended that we join the parish’s Apologetics Class, which was absolutely stellar, taught with academic prowess by two professors who were converts from Evangelical Protestantism themselves!

In other words, we got all the explanations we needed to understand the “mysteries” in the Catholic Church, and I think that everyone should have that same kind of knowledge and training. We were blessed!
 
This is a complex issue. How do you get the population to be holier…

Honestly though I have a few thoughts.

-I’m a big fan of the Joyful approach to faith. However it seems we have moved towards avoiding the difficult topics in the church. I haven’t heard a homily on abortion, contraception, euthanasia, sanctity of the Eucharist, hell… if it wasn’t for Catholic school I wouldn’t be very well educated on Catholicism at all. Feelings and happiness are good, but there are four sets of mysteries to the rosary, one includes the sorrowful. A certain amount of depth , and yes even guilt, is appropriate in faith. If I never feel guilty I’ve never sinned.We need the difficulties order to grow. If we expect men to give their lives towards something but only do the parts which make us feel good… I can’t imagine many committing to it. I think there is a certain depth that we have moved away from. A wholeness. If it’s just about feelings and optimism then the football game looks more attractive, there’s even mire feelings and excitement there. Plus fireworks.

-Laity- for all of our parts I think we need to step it up and engage in the battle. Most of us could do prayer groups at parishes. Prayer is our front line defense and I think we need to get it going better. We need to support our priests too… they need to know we’ve got their backs when they lead us in tough issues. We have opinions, great we’re all growing. But it’s not about opinions, it’s about spiritual truth. I think many parishes have priests doing a ton of administration. Can we lighten the administrative load so the priest can focus on spiritual leadership more? Also be less critical. A certain amount if feedback/criticism is healthy and helpful… Honestly though in some places I think the congregation is so picky…over the smallest stuff. The priest isn’t there for entertainment, but to help us grow spiritually. Just let the priest be the priest.

-Jesus Focus- This is the most important point. A parish is a community. But if we wanted to be solely in a social club I think there are better options. We need to keep Jesus and The Eucharist front and center. That’s why we are all there. If the priest is focused on Christ, then he can help us to do the same.

If we want more priests I think we need to make it clear what a priest is… a spiritual leader and conduit to Jesus. He’s not an MC for entertainment. So if we hope men give their lives for service to God let’s keep in mind what that means. And let’s charitably but firmly stand for truth. That’s what people want.
 
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Can someone please tell me where these Clown Masses are being held? I would like to see what all the fuss is about for myself.
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Pitcairn17:
Other than the one on YouTube, which I believe was in Germany, I’m not aware of any at all,
So, I think we don’t see these clown Masses and Star War Masses because we have moved way beyond them into some worse issues. They were probably just stepping stones into allowing our modern politically correct issues into the Mass.
 
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So, I think that is because
Sorry to be blunt, but I was looking for facts, not thoughts, however true they may be. Where are the Clown Masses? Do they actually exist, or are videos of them staged? I don’t know the answers to these questions which is why I asked them. If they do exist, they shouldn’t, nor are they allowed by the rubrics of the OF. If they don’t, then anyone who was using them as an argument against the OF needs to stop.
 
Sorry to be blunt, but I was looking for facts, not thoughts, however true they may be. Where are the Clown Masses?
In all charity, if you are looking for facts, this is not the place to find them. Most all comments you will find here at CAF are going to be someone’s thoughts or views on something. I have had to learn the hard way to take every comment here at CAF with a grain of salt and definitely not necessarily true. Sometimes but definitely not always.

I included Star Wars in my comment because I know that there was a Star Wars Mass because I was part of the protest that did not change anything.

But the main reason I made my comment is because I think we need to stop discussing clown Masses (it probably only happened once) and focus on what is truly happening in some of our sanctuaries.
 
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I have found a plethora of opinion here, of widely varying levels of relationship to objective reality. I have also seen many verifiable and referenced facts. But if Clown Masses are actually happening, then we need to know it and fight it, but we also need to know for a fact whether or not they are actually happening and where in order to do that.
 
But if Clown Masses are actually happening, then we need to know it and fight it, but we also need to know for a fact whether or not they are actually happening and where in order to do that.
Okay, well I will let you research that, as clown Masses per se were not the reason for my comment except to say that I think worse things are happening.

God bless
 
I would say…it is the lack of parent’s responsibility to show the importance of involvement…and teach their children well…parents today are so…uninvolved in their children’s lives.
 
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I have a few more possible reasons why Mass attendance continues to collapse.

Aging population–I know that this is repeated over and over again, but I think that people still fail to realize the sheer numbers of Baby Boomers who are now in their “Senior” years (me, me! and my husband!). A huuuuge (apologies to Pres. Trump!) number of babies were born during the time after the war until about 1962, and these people are now 60 or older.

Now, 60 isn’t that old, and many 60 year-olds (me, me! and my husband!) continue to be in fairly good health and work full time and often hold down more than one job attempting to help their Gen X and Millennial kids pay off student loans, and also pay off debts and get some retirement savings for themselves.

It’s not like the days of the generation before us (my parents!), who were able, thanks to big union dealings and wonderful pension plans, to retire at age 55 with almost a full income and a paid-off mortgage!

Anyway, Boomers are old and many of the older boomers suffer from health issues that make it difficult for them to get around–they may even be shut-in. And of course, various memory disorders/dementia seem to be decimating many older Americans–so sad.

Many Boomers have been forced to stop attending Mass/church, and this is definitely seen in the decreased number of people in the pews. Same thing is happening in Protestant churches, many which did big building programs in the 1970s to accommodate the space needs of the Baby Boomers. Now those big naves are emptying out as their Boomers are unable to attend.

Another issue to think about–many of the Catholic churches (and Protestant churches, too) are in areas of their cities that have become crime-ridden, and so many older folks (and younger folks, too!) are hesitant to attend these churches, even for the Mass which is obligatory!

Protestant churches often deal with this by abandoning their inner city locations and moving to the safer suburbs and neighborhoods. But Catholics don’t seem to do this–they continue to use buildings that were built a hundred years ago when the neighborhood was thriving and safe enough that kids could sleep out on the big front porch and walk to the park to play!

Not sure how to deal with this–I’ll admit that I don’t like to attend the downtown parishes in our city, and I am very careful to stay alert while I’m walking from the parking lot into the building. In at least one of these parishes, the men of the parish will walk lone women out to their cars and make sure they are safely in their cars. I have reason to believe that many of these men are carrying guns and would not hesitate to use them. It’s not silly–there have been TWO murders in recent years on the very steps of that beautiful old Catholic church, and many more murders in the neighborhood, including murders of teens and children.

Finally–one more reason why attendance is down. In many of the Catholic churches (the older ones), the bathrooms are DOWNSTAIRS, far away from the nave. Older folks do not like to be far away from a pottie!
 
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It’s not like the days of the generation before us (my parents!), who were able, thanks to big union dealings and wonderful pension plans, to retire at age 55 with almost a full income and a paid-off mortgage!
I think it’s worth mentioning that in many Western countries, especially in major cities, the cost of living has so spiralled out of affordability that younger people are now having to take on multiple part-time jobs (if they’re lucky enough to get an interview) simply to afford a roof over their heads.

For example, I’m living in Sydney, and there has not been an era in this country’s history where housing has been more unaffordable. A lot of young people whom I know would entertain the idea of church if they had any actual available time in their schedule. Not when they’re under so much financial stress, fighting tooth and nail during full time studies, multiple part-time employment, etc.
 
VATICAN II HAPPENED
Though this ecumenical council of the 1960’s was well intentioned,
A lot of problems that became visible after the Council had been building up under the radar for years. When Fr. Charles Curran organized his massive dissent against Humanae Vitae in 1968, he and countless other theologians were already, since before the Council, entrenched in powerful positions. V2 didn’t put them there.

A lot of influential people, who had been formed and mostly promoted to power in the supposedly solid Pre Vatican 2 Church, used their positions in the 1970s to push their private agendas: “if you dare to oppose my program, that means you are against the Spirit of Vatican 2”.

The fact that V2 was praised excessively, credited with everything from the creation of lay apostolate to invention of the wheel, does not mean it was inherently bad. It was a mild success that prepared the Church for some things, but did not foresee other things.
 
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I haven’t read every post in detail, but no one seems to have cited the collapse of the Catholic school systems in various parts of the country - certainly here in New England where I live. Children today live in homes where parents and even grandparents have marginal knowledge of the Faith - victims of what happened to CCD in the 70’s and 80’s. Certainly Catholic schools were a fertile ground for vocations as well. And such Catholic schools that have survived charge tuition that is out of the reach of most middle-class families, plus shrinking parishes can no longer afford subsidies.
 
Do you think the trend will reverse itself, shouldn’t the parish be that community that people need to fall back or rely on yet what if many parishes can only do so much? Or rebuilding and revitalization does take time but like the Redwoods, seedlings of hope take much time to grow? Is Catholicism at risk of losing a working class base it once had (and vibrant communities it once supported), much less reaching many of the poor and become an middle, upper middle and wealthy class faith or far from it? Might I ask what keeps you hopeful despite seeing the downfall of community? If the parish can’t be that community, might I ask where else people can find recourse?
 
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If the parish can’t be that community, might I ask where else people can find recourse?
I’m not ruling out the parish, but here are some other places communities have developed:

Home schooling associations;
Newer Catholic schools, thinking of those that started up specifically to offer daily Mass, classical curriculum, orthodox Theology.

Prolife movement
Cursillo, and Charismatic movement

Some larger K of C councils have offered a lot of Community activities, though the current trend is to move everything into the parish

A handful of orthodox Catholic colleges have fostered Catholic Community not only for their students but their neighborhoods.
 
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Do you foresee a flowering or revitalization over that or has it already happened or is happening like the CMSWR though scaling will take time? And also the lay movements like Communion and Liberation, the Opus Dei and the third orders (as well as Lay Associates), do you think more people would stay, be more involved or not drift away if there was more awareness and exposure to these movements especially since many Catholics are anchored to their parishes and otherwise don’t hear about them?

Do you think there’ll be opportunities for young adults plus singles to find their niche guy too or has the Church actually made a push to reach young adults in recent times? No offense, but isn’t there some issues with convenience like not having late evenings or other times more appealing to people, like maybe more Night Masses or holding daily masses in the evening after working hours?
 
I understand that every generation will be critical of the one before, or after. My two cents: The lack of involvement you describe is spot on. People now “have children” instead of “being parents.” Seems like the first thing they do is push them off on someone else. (Pre-K/ preschool, and I’ve even seen “Pre-pre-K) Daycare to follow, then schools get them. “Parents” work, play with their phones, and go out with friends. Public schools “teach” the children whatever is “approved.”
Parents “baby-sit” their kids by giving them a tablet/computer/phone or whatever to keep them occupied while they do “Adult” things. This is very sad.
I work for a company that has been in business for almost 80 years, I’ve been there for 18+. Two things actually surprised me recently. First, DURING a job interview, the applicant stopped the interviewing person,…to respond to a text message. (Interview over)
Second: An employee disappeared. When found an hour later, SLEEPING “because they were tired.” (Still wanted to be paid for that time too.)
“Parenting” is nothing like it was, and I fear for our society.
Dominus vobiscum
 
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What do you think needs to be done to solve this issue?
All Catholic Stats have been on the decline since around 1970 onwards…
And not for no reason…
What and/or Whom and/or Why - and/or How has this been occurring (and worsening) ?

PS - Upon Jesus’ Return - all which ails this worldly world shall be eliminated.
 
We need leaders who train leaders. The only reason a parish with several hundred or thousand families is not producing vocations is because the Priests aren’t living a life that is seen as worth emulating…
 
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