Why do Mass attendance and new vocations continue to collapse?

[KMC]

KMC:

Also, at the same time, 70% of Catholics at mass, according to the Pew poll don’t believe, yet more than 30% of mass attendees receive the Eucharist. Would you say receiving in a state of unbelief is irreverent?

Is it really that bad (I’m one to talk since I’m non practicing), are you sure it ain’t one sure? I mean I know people left over it but what’s so hard about accepting that the Eucharist is Christ? Maybe some people forgot, overlook that but deny it? Maybe misunderstand like take it figuratively, metaphorically or symbolicly?

I need to correct myself. The Pew Poll states approx 69% of Catholics don’t believe in transubstantiation. I said 70% of Catholics “at mass,” which is not correct. I would assume more than 30% of mass attendees believe. I have a hard time believing 100% of the people in the communion line believe.

One-third of U.S. Catholics believe in transubstantiation | Pew Research Center

 

[Peeps]

At the same time, I didn’t go out of my way to look at the father who let his son grab the Eucharist from his hand, and when the EM took the Eucharist away from his son, and attempted to give it back to the father, the father was not trying to restrain his son’s hands. This is one of the reason’s I try to keep my head down during the distribution of the Eucharist.

Also, at the same time, 70% of Catholics at mass, according to the Pew poll don’t believe, yet more than 30% of mass attendees receive the Eucharist. Would you say receiving in a state of unbelief is irreverent?

I believe the answer, and would love your (name removed by moderator)ut, is to put more effort into catechesis, and to provide an example for others. Teach the correct teaching, urge non-believers to abstain, and lead by example regarding being reverent. Thoughts?

First, we don’t know the reason for the father’s actions towards his son. There are so many children who are on the autism spectrum these days, and sometimes, certain actions will send these kids into total screaming meltdown. So perhaps the father was trying to avoid this.

I don’t think receiving in a state of disbelief is irreverent because the person may honestly not know that the Eucharist is Jesus Christ, Truly Present, Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity. It’s possible that the blame for this is on the Church which did not catechize adequately rather than on the Catholic who in innocent ignorance, receives Holy Communion.

Finally, yes, I absolutely agree that better catechesis is sadly overdue in many Catholic parishes. And I think you have a good idea to announce in each Mass that Holy Communion is for those who are Catholics and who believe that the Eucharist is Jesus Christ, Truly Present, Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity, and not just a “symbol” of Jesus.

 

[Vico]

…
Is that why you attend? Because someone has told you it would be a sin not to?
…

All that is true that you posted from Lumen Gentium, but also this from the Catechism, a way to recover grace for those weak in faith:

1453 The contrition called “imperfect” (or “attrition”) is also a gift of God, a prompting of the Holy Spirit. It is born of the consideration of sin’s ugliness or the fear of eternal damnation and the other penalties threatening the sinner (contrition of fear). Such a stirring of conscience can initiate an interior process which, under the prompting of grace, will be brought to completion by sacramental absolution. By itself however, imperfect contrition cannot obtain the forgiveness of grave sins, but it disposes one to obtain forgiveness in the sacrament of Penance.52

 

[blackforest]

I’ve long attributed that phenomenon more to a priest shortage than a parishioner shortage. As it is, one priest in my state will serve three different rural parishes on a single Sunday. In urban areas, parishes are merging because there aren’t enough priests to oversee each individual church.

Granted, it’s easy to see where there may be a link between a parishioner shortage and a priest shortage; more faithful Catholics = a larger pool of potential priests.

And even if I don’t see it directly, I don’t doubt the data on declining Mass attendance. Our society as a whole has developed a distaste for institutionalized anything. Rhetorical question: Can you name one major, influential institution that hasn’t engaged in some form of corruption? The list of those that have is long and includes the Catholic Church. For Catholics like you and me, it’s easy to see the case for staying faithful to the Church, but it can be a hard case to make to people who’ve been hurt by it . . . or just disgusted by the corruption.

 

[KMC]

KMC:

At the same time, I didn’t go out of my way to look at the father who let his son grab the Eucharist from his hand, and when the EM took the Eucharist away from his son, and attempted to give it back to the father, the father was not trying to restrain his son’s hands. This is one of the reason’s I try to keep my head down during the distribution of the Eucharist.

Also, at the same time, 70% of Catholics at mass, according to the Pew poll don’t believe, yet more than 30% of mass attendees receive the Eucharist. Would you say receiving in a state of unbelief is irreverent?

I believe the answer, and would love your (name removed by moderator)ut, is to put more effort into catechesis, and to provide an example for others. Teach the correct teaching, urge non-believers to abstain, and lead by example regarding being reverent. Thoughts?

First, we don’t know the reason for the father’s actions towards his son. There are so many children who are on the autism spectrum these days, and sometimes, certain actions will send these kids into total screaming meltdown. So perhaps the father was trying to avoid this.

I don’t think receiving in a state of disbelief is irreverent because the person may honestly not know that the Eucharist is Jesus Christ, Truly Present, Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity. It’s possible that the blame for this is on the Church which did not catechize adequately rather than on the Catholic who in innocent ignorance, receives Holy Communion.

Finally, yes, I absolutely agree that better catechesis is sadly overdue in many Catholic parishes. And I think you have a good idea to announce in each Mass that Holy Communion is for those who are Catholics and who believe that the Eucharist is Jesus Christ, Truly Present, Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity, and not just a “symbol” of Jesus.

I need to re-calibrate. Its just so amazing to me that a person who identifies as Catholic has no idea what the Church teaches on the subject. It seems more reasonable that a person would just “not believe” the teaching.

Regarding the blame…WE are the Church. WE all have a responsibility to teach this. We all, to some degree, own that 70% statistic.

 

[Peeps]

I need to re-calibrate. Its just so amazing to me that a person who identifies as Catholic has no idea what the Church teaches on the subject. It seems more reasonable that a person would just “not believe” the teaching.

Regarding the blame…WE are the Church. WE all have a responsibility to teach this. We all, to some degree, own that 70% statistic.

I may be wrong about this, but here’s what I think–and keep in mind that I am a convert from Evangelical Protestantism.

I think that the Catholic parishes DO teach the basics of the faith, but that the kids don’t listen. Usually the religious education classes are after school. The child has homework, probably some kind of extracurricular activity (ice skating, soccer practice, music lessons, choir, gymnastics, etc.), some kind of meal to eat, possibly in the car on the way to one of the extracurricular activities–and this religious ed. class is just one more thing that is keeping the child away from playing–shocking, isn’t it!–that a child would like to play, or a teen would like to just “hang out” with friends online or even on the old-fashioned phone!

Even if the religious ed is taught in a parish school, it’s still likely that many of the kids learn it “by rote,” to get a good grade and keep up with their peers, but they don’t internalize it.

Evangelicals historically have done a really good job of teaching kids, but of course, what they teach is a lot of more elementary–basically, if you learn one verse, John 3:16, you know at least half of Evangelical Protestant “doctrine.” And if you learn Matt. 28: 18-20 (Great Commission), you know the other half!

One thing Evangelical Protestants do well is provide great children’s teachers and sponsors, and great youth ministers and sponsors, who not only teach by work of mouth, but through modeling a Christ-like life that makes children and teens WANT to be like them and follow Jesus. I haven’t really seen this with Catholic religious education. It’s just old-fashioned lectures, workbooks, and homework–no wonder kids blow it off.

And of course, if the child doesn’t make it through Religious Ed, Mom or Dad will storm the gates and DEMAND that their child be confirmed.

So it’s no wonder that so many Catholics make it through Religious Ed, but don’t know dime one about their faith, and crumple the instant they face a smiling Evangelical Protestant who can recite Bible verses and is full of brotherly love.

 

[KMC]

I greatly appreciate your insight…this is good stuff.

Blessings!

 

[Bird_lover]

We have the Eucharist. Many Protestants do not have a Eucharist.

My belief is Catholics need to fall in love with Christ where he is present now: in the Eucharist. Adoration would be key to helping.

And I have a book to recommend! In Sinu Jesu! That will help some of us fall in love with the Eucharist. It has helped me immensely. Too bad I can’t get my pastor to read it…

 

[KMC]

And of course, if the child doesn’t make it through Religious Ed, Mom or Dad will storm the gates and DEMAND that their child be confirmed.

So it’s no wonder that so many Catholics make it through Religious Ed, but don’t know dime one about their faith, and crumple the instant they face a smiling Evangelical Protestant who can recite Bible verses and is full of brotherly love.

One additional comment…this is a really good point you made. A loooooooong time ago, when I was confirmed in the 5th grade, we had to memorize parts of the Catechism. The bishop would actually, prior to confirming us, go out to the pews and quiz us. I remember that a sacrament is "an outward sign instituted by Christ to give grace. It didn’t register on me at the time, but when I needed to explain what a sacrament was to a Protestant years later, it came back.

I think the whole idea of mom and dad demanding their child get confirmed is a function of the “participation trophy” culture. Now, everybody did get confirmed when I did, but there was a lot of pressure to not embarrass yourself in front of a church full of people by not knowing the answer.

Every Catholic needs to be able to answer one question in apologetics: “Why are you Catholic?” (AND, the answer “because my parents are” is unacceptable). Every Catholic should be able to list off 2-3 reasons why they are Catholic, as opposed to some other denomination.

 

[Pitcairn17]

LukeShalz:

Clown Mass…

Can someone please tell me where these Clown Masses are being held? I would like to see what all the fuss is about for myself.

Other than the one on YouTube, which I believe was in Germany, I’m not aware of any at all, certainly in the US. Of course, that does not stop some from thinking that there’s a “Clown Mass” in every Ordinary Form parish at least once a month.

 

[Peeps]

We have the Eucharist. Many Protestants do not have a Eucharist.

My belief is Catholics need to fall in love with Christ where he is present now: in the Eucharist. Adoration would be key to helping.

And I have a book to recommend! In Sinu Jesu! That will help some of us fall in love with the Eucharist. It has helped me immensely. Too bad I can’t get my pastor to read it…

As an older adult, I can certainly agree with you.

But don’t you see? A CHILD does not have the concept of “falling in love” with anyone. A child sometimes isn’t even sure what “love” is–children who are abused often have no idea that others don’t experience the same thing, and often, the parents will warp the child’s mind by telling them that “I’m doing this because I love you.”

Even teens are kind of vague about what it means to “fall in love”. I think a boy/teen would have a very hard time with the idea of falling in love with another “man” which is what Jesus is in His Human form.

I think what children and teens need to see on a daily/weekly basis is adults that they admire and trust who lead lives of joy, peace, and love and make it clear that this is because of Jesus Christ in their heart, guiding them in their daily tasks and guarding their souls. I think they need to see adults who are trying to rid themselves, with the help of the Holy Spirit, from any taint of sin, and who apologize to others and to the LORD (through the Sacrament of Reconciliation) when they do fall to sin.

I think kids need to see a REAL Christian, not just learn about abstract concepts (at least, to them–as they get older, a child begins to comprehend abstraction), but actually SEE and EXPERIENCE a genuine, Spirit-filled, Jesus-loving, Mary loving, CHURCH LOVING Christian day in and day out!

And I think that adults need to communicate to children through their words and ACTIONS the importance of being in the Lord’s House when He asks them to, and the JOY they have in being at Mass. “I was glad when they said unto me, Let us go into the House of the Lord!”

If a child sees all this on a daily basis, and then learns about it in Religious Ed classes with teachers who are equally on fire for the Lord and His Church–I think it’s more likely (but not a certainty) that they will follow in the paths of the adults that they love and trust.

 

[QwertyGirl]

I think it is common to be in the position of not finding the Church, or any religion for that matter, relevant to the life one lives. Of course, most here would exclaim “Not relevent??? Clearly they don’t understand what the Church teaches if they don’t find it relevant!”. But the reality is that many do understand, and still don’t find it relevant. They might find part of it to be relevant, but the Church has done a pretty good job of setting itself up to be a black or white organization. It was clear to me, as one raised in the Catholic Church, that you were expected to have both feet in and believe all of it, and practice all of it. I would have probably stuck around but for the fact that I couldn’t be “all in” in good conscience. I guess some do…they are the ones that are cultural Catholics or “cafeteria” Catholics. If those posting here are honest with themselves, a good majority look down their nose at “those” types of Catholics.

If the Church is interested in getting numbers up, and I am not necessarily convinced that it is, then the focus should be on figuring out a way to convince those on the fringe that what it teaches and requires IS relevent.

I am not suggesting watering down anything, or condoning things that shouldn’t be condoned. I know that is a battle cry I see here often.

 

[phil19034]

Better catechesis, no more dancing around important issues / hard teachings, consistency, a return to more tradition (not necessarily Latin mass, but something that is stereotypical Catholic), and more men’s groups that focus on authentic masculinity.

The best way to grow the church is to attract the demographic that is under represented in the pews. Men.

 

[Peeps]

a return to more tradition (not necessarily Latin mass, but something that is stereotypical Catholic),

I think that there has to be an explanation for the traditionalism. I think many people would say that it feels like theater to them–but if they KNOW the reasons for the various traditions (e.g., bring out the Didache and the New Testament and point out that this is the way “church” has been done since the time immediately after the Resurrection of the Lord, and to continue these traditions helps us to realize that we are not “by ourselves,” but are connected to all Christians who have gone before us. This is a cool concept to modern people. There are probably other ways to explain the “why” of traditional practices; e.g. explaining the symbolism (something else that moderns understand).

But to just “do tradition” without an explanation will fall flat.

 

[steve-b]

What do you think needs to be done to solve this issue?

Peter said we need to add without stopping, 7 attributes to our faith… or we will fall.

2 Pet 1…

Note: 2nd on the list is knowledge. My observation, is that, people today, taking that one attribute, are poorly formed in the faith. And there is no excuse for that.

AND

Much of that fault, falls on parents not doing their part.

 

[phil19034]

phil19034:

a return to more tradition (not necessarily Latin mass, but something that is stereotypical Catholic),

I think that there has to be an explanation for the traditionalism. I think many people would say that it feels like theater to them–but if they KNOW the reasons for the various traditions (e.g., bring out the Didache and the New Testament and point out that this is the way “church” has been done since the time immediately after the Resurrection of the Lord, and to continue these traditions helps us to realize that we are not “by ourselves,” but are connected to all Christians who have gone before us. This is a cool concept to modern people. There are probably other ways to explain the “why” of traditional practices; e.g. explaining the symbolism (something else that moderns understand).

But to just “do tradition” without an explanation will fall flat.

I agree 100%. That’s why we need FAR BETTER catechesis.

 

[ralfyman]

From what I remember, worldwide the number of priests has gone up slightly across several decades, but the number of Catholics much faster. Given that, it is likely that parishes and BECs among most Catholics who belong to developing economies have been experiencing overcrowding as well as a lack of priests and Churches. This has led more of them to move away from the Church.

Meanwhile, rising secularism, as seen especially in consumer spending, has turned more Churchgoers into nominal Catholics, such that they attend only during seasons like Advent, Lent, or particular days of obligation. The same might even be leading to fewer people becoming priests, brothers, and nuns, and also several dropping out.

As for those who attend, there may even be numbers who arrive late for Mass and/or leave early.

 

[po18guy]

The Church in the western world is undergoing a substantial malaise. To much wealth. Too much materialism. Too much media.

An economic collapse in the west, ravaging illness, a 21st centuy plague - something catastrophic will restore faith.

Until then, remain faithful as one crying out in the wilderness,

"Prepare the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.”

 

[Peeps]

I agree 100%. That’s why we need FAR BETTER catechesis.

I think the very “mystery” of the Mass, especially the EF of the Mass, but the OF as well–the “mystery” that is so edifying to faith-filled, committed Catholics, is a turn-off to those who are outside of the Church. They want facts and information, not a “mystery.”

So catechesis serves to “solve” that mystery for them, and help them to see that it’s all very sensible and logical.

 

[Aquinas11]

Not at all. Look at John 6 to know that’s not true. Jesus told the crowd “unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you cannot have eternal life”, literally the “mystery of the Mass”

Hearing him, the crowd all starts to leave
(sound familiar? Thread title?)

Disciples say to Jesus : “Master , this is a very hard teaching, who can accept it?”
(again, sound familiar?)

What does Jesus say? Two questions
“Did I offend you?” and
“Do you want to leave too?”

Notice what Jesus does NOT say
“Uh, yeah you guys are right, what I’m saying is too mysterious! Call that crowd back! Let’s say whatever gets them to stay or gets our numbers up!!”