Why do Mass attendance and new vocations continue to collapse?

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What about the poor and working class in the cities like minority-majority areas, thought to be fair, I know of at least two Jesuit parishes that are situated in those areas, you know those Catholic ethnic enclaves? Also, isn’t the issue with reaching rural communities the fact that w heave a priest shortage of clergy which is why, we need to situate priests where they can reach as many as possible? Having a small close-knit parish is nice and to be desired but doesn’t seem feasible these days,
 
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jack63 said:
I do wonder about people from religious orders taking academic positions at the college level in non-religious fields. 100 years ago this made sense, but today individuals from religious orders are competing with very well qualified individuals who are laity, non-catholic, and non-religious. How does this make sense?
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Well, it creates a unique opportunity to evangelize in academic fields and gives a testimony of the relationship between the Church, culture and science. And of course, it can serve the Order both monetarially and professionally.

Look at the freemasons! They almost took aver the world in the 17-19th centuries by being close to the leading academics and philosophers of the time.
 
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RCIAGraduate said:
What about the poor and working class in the cities like minority-majority areas, thought to be fair, I know of at least two Jesuit parishes that are situated in those areas
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No doubt there are some awesome examples of outreach by Jesuits to urban poor. For example Homeboy Industries in a really bad part of LA was founded by a Jesuit priest. However, you’ll also have a Jesuit parish in some of the wealthiest parts of cities too. Don’t get me wrong, I love Jesuit spirituality, but a Jesuit parish in the middle of a wealthy neighborhood in or near a major city does seem like a missed opportunity.
RCIAGraduate said:
Also, isn’t the issue with reaching rural communities the fact that w heave a priest shortage of clergy which is why, we need to situate priests where they can reach as many as possible?
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…and on the surface this makes a lot of sense. However, does it really make sense to have a parish run by a religious order situated in a very rich city simply so that its priests have access to a University? I’ve seen this personally. It has caused me to see the vocation crisis differently. In some major cities, the priests aren’t there to outreach to the community, they are there to get educated.
 
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catholicworker1922 said:
hat do you think needs to be done to solve this issue?
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It is society today, It is becoming more and more secular. People are seeking other means to fulfil their spiritual journeys. It is also the scandals. They are driving people away . People lose trust and then have to deal with the fall out of that.

I was just reading an article where more traditional religious communities are attracting women , vocations are growing in some areas, including in African, Indonesian and Indian areas.
 
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RCIAGraduate said:
and clerfy and isn’t it a shame because people lose out on learning about the unique spritualities of the religious orders, would more people stay if they had the opportunity to learn about the different charisms and develop their own spirituality?
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It is a huge shame, I totally agree with you here. Religious order priests I know are very different to the Diocesan Priests. The different Charisms greatly expand our understanding of our faith and the role of Priests within it, and religious.
 
Your family, friends, and parish are not representative of the population. You need to come up with a sampling across various parishes nationwide to come up with a better picture of the situation. For now, only the SWS has done that. The CBCP argued otherwise but could not provide evidence to back their claims, except through visual observance that Masses are packed (but no comparison made to the no. of parishioners) or that attendance is growing (but no comparison from original to current figures) or that Churchgoers are attending Masses at malls (again, no figures).

https://news.abs-cbn.com/nation/04/11/13/catholic-bishops-deny-drop-church-attendance

Interestingly enough, they admitted eight years earlier that fewer young people are attending, but still gave no quantifiable data:


For Christians overall, the only available data had to come from an outside source (Pew).
 
ralfyman said:
Your family, friends, and parish are not representative of the population. You need to come up with a sampling across various parishes nationwide to come up with a better picture of the situation. For now, only the SWS has done that. The CBCP argued otherwise but could not provide evidence to back their claims, except through visual observance that Masses are packed (but no comparison made to the no. of parishioners) or that attendance is growing (but no comparison from original to current figures) or that Churchgoers are attending Masses at malls (again, no figures).
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Their polls, including political polls have been really bad. I would not bet on them. I live here. I know the country and people.
You should also bear in mind that this is one of the most corrupt countries so nobody here believes in any polls.
 
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Isn’t the Philippines secularizing though, non practicing but if you don’t mind me asking, please pray for the Philippines and the Church there.
 
The child sex abuse scandal has severely damaged the Church’s moral authority. The widespread abuse and its grotesque nature is unattractive and actually repels people.
 
Morality has changed as society has evolved - today’s accepted morality by society clashes with the churches morality. So the church either holds the line or modernizes to the new accepted morality. I say it holds the line and yes it will become small and loose its former glory but it will remain a light and when people realize they are missing something and feel hollow inside they will come looking and the church will be there. I see no other path the line has to be held and there will be a big drop off in attendance it inevitable with the changing morality which has mostly happened over the last hundred years . I am waiting to see what happens.
 
Please give more details on why you think they are “bad” and why your own assessment is not just better but also a poll that represents parishes nationwide. Did you publish your findings and may we study it?

Also, if no one believes any polls because the country is corrupt, then doesn’t that mean any result about Church attendance in the country (including views contrary to those given in these polls) is questionable?

Mind you, Fr. Picardal of the Committee of BECs of the CBCP reports that almost two decades earlier, the Second Plenary Council said that the figure is even lower: 15-20 pct:


He concludes that whether it’s 37-41 pct or 15-20 pct, all they know that it is low. If it ever goes up, it does so during Lent, Advent, and fiestas.
 
According to the ff. article, in 2013, they had only around 8,500 priests for 70 millions Catholics, or one priest for around 8,200 members. A decade before that, Cardinal Tagle stated that they need around 25,000 priests for 68 million, or one priest for every 2,700 members.

They also lack Churches because according to Archbishop Cruz, a parish can only accommodate 500 to 1,000 people.

It’s worse in the some metros, where there’s only one priest for every 12,000 people.

And out of every 100 seminarians, only 10 become priests.

A lack of priests and Churches is probably one reason why they can’t increase Church attendance, and why more Catholics are moving to other religious denominations:

 
ralfyman said:
Please give more details on why you think they are “bad” and why your own assessment is not just better but also a poll that represents parishes nationwide. Did you publish your findings and may we study it?
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Why are you obsessed with this. I haven’t done a study. I am telling you that our parish is representative of other parishes because I have friends and family all over the country.
No matter what parish I have been to Mass in the Church is always packed and with people standing outside the Church.
This is one of the most corrupt countries in Asia. Nobody believes polls no matter what they are about.
 
It’s no so much an obsession as an acknowledgment of a very serious issue.

If you have not done a study of this, then how are you able to dismiss data from the SWS and even the CBCP in a flippant manner?

Anyone can make claims about having lots of friends all over the country, but you can’t verify that, right?

As pointed out in the article, one reason why Churches are packed is because there is a major shortage of priests and Churches in the country. Given points by Cardinal Tagle, that may mean that only around 25 pct of people are able to attend Mass.

Finally, your last point works against you. That is, if nothing can be believed about the country because it is so corrupt, then how would you know what the actual attendance is?
 
The Church is a living and breathing entity. Right now, it is exhaling - part of that living, breathing process.

The scandals and current situation with the Church appear far less troubling when one divorces oneself from all forms of media and spends silent time with Christ in the Most Blessed Sacrament.
 
I actually see new forms and movements of the Spirit all around me these days. I’m connected to a local seminary and there are lots of seminarians, and very holy and devout men! I think it is an exciting time. The Church is being purged, but what else is new? It has happened many times in the past, and God always gives abundant graces and raises up new saints to meet the challenge.
I’m in the midwest, and we’ve had recently a huge spate of local or near-local saints designated as a Servant of God, beatified or canonized, Fulton Sheen among them. And the recognition of the only approved Marian apparition in the U.S. not far from me. An abundance of riches for the Church as she navigates the boat into the future!
 
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ralfyman said:
It’s no so much an obsession as an acknowledgment of a very serious issue.

If you have not done a study of this, then how are you able to dismiss data from the SWS and even the CBCP in a flippant manner?

Anyone can make claims about having lots of friends all over the country, but you can’t verify that, right?

As pointed out in the article, one reason why Churches are packed is because there is a major shortage of priests and Churches in the country. Given points by Cardinal Tagle, that may mean that only around 25 pct of people are able to attend Mass.

Finally, your last point works against you. That is, if nothing can be believed about the country because it is so corrupt, then how would you know what the actual attendance is?
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If you think a poll in the Philippines verifies anything then you know nothing about this country!
 
Why do you keep referring to polls and corruption? According to Fr. Picardal, executive secretary of the Committee on BECs of the CBCP, the percentage for Church attendance might even be lower than what the SWS reports because he believes that the majority of Catholics are seasonal or nominal.

Some reasons are given in the other article featuring Cardinal Tagle and Archbishop Cruz.
 
I personally left years ago over scandal in the church which impacted me personally. I believe excess compromise in the church drives people away. It started at the top with leadership looking the other way instead of putting abusers out of vocations.

Trying to please everyone rather than remaining faithful to doctrine has also backfired. Cafeteria Catholicism is a mistake. The church should not worry about being popular…be faithful instead.

Returning was difficult for me honestly due to difficulty finding truly Catholic “Catholic” churches to attend. Several in a local major, liberal city diocese were very gay. Gay flirtation among priests was very overt…at one, the priest wore a rainbow gay pride stole for Easter mass. Prayer intentions were very liberal and political. Homilies manipulated the congregation and twisted the word of God. The churches were sparsely attended.
After several years of searching I found a conservative parish. I am informed and inspired, homilies are educational. I returned to confession. There is great compassion which includes the clarity on how we are called to live. The church is full.

I see growth in a return to conservative Catholic teaching and values. Conservative vocations and diocese are growing.

A liberal relative recently shared that she met with her priest to complain that the Church should ordain women, support abortion, perform gay marriage and many more demands on her part for change. The priest told her she had left the church and she was very offended. But yes, she had left the church. Offended or not, I believe this level of honesty is called for.
 
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